| Author |
Message |
Avind Caprihone
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:04 am
Post subject: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
AC
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jim Lawton
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:04:05 -0700, Avind Caprihone <acap@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
|
The former, round here. (Yorkshire)
--
Jim
the polymoth |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pat Durkin
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
"Avind Caprihone" <acap@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43650a47.3269312@news-40.giganews.com...
| Quote: |
I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
|
Test your structure by dropping the prepositional: "I have never been
one (of those [whichever kind of] people) who cares about food."
Correct.
Test on second by dropping the noun and using the demonstrative pronoun:
"I have never been one of those (people) who care about food."
Correct.
Both are correct, and you have to choose the one you wish for emphasis
and imagery.
In the second example, you can also substitute: ". . .been among those
(people). . ." or ". . .counted with those (people). . ."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Armond Perretta
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:38 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Avind Caprihone wrote:
| Quote: | I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
|
This is a toss up. It depends on whether you want to say "one .. who cares"
or "one of those [members of the group] 'people who care'."
I am ready to sit corrected on this, but only by John Lawler.
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Donna Richoux
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:43 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Avind Caprihone <acap@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
It's done both ways. I prefer the second, myself, because it feels like: |
those people who care about food
one of those people who care about food
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
The American Heritage Dictionary says, under "one":
Constructions such as one of those people who pose a
different problem. Most grammarians would argue that
who should be followed by a plural verb in these
sentences, as in He is one of those people who just
don't take "no" for an answer. Their thinking is
that the relative pronoun who refers to the plural
noun people, not to one. They would extend the rule
to constructions with inanimate nouns, as in The
sports car turned out to be one of the most
successful products that were ever manufactured in
this country. However, constructions of this sort
are often used with a singular verb even by the best
writers. In an earlier survey, 42 percent of the
Usage Panel accepted the use of the singular verb in
such constructions.
Then AHD points out that sentences with "the only one" are different yet
again.
--
Best wishes -- Donna Richoux |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Brader
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:20 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Avind Caprihone asks about:
| Quote: | I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
|
Donna Richoux writes:
| Quote: | It's done both ways.
|
Rightly and wrongly?
| Quote: | I prefer the second, myself, because it feels like:
those people who care about food
one of those people who care about food
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
|
Exactly.
"One who cares about food" would be correct, but that's different
construction.
--
Mark Brader | "The nice thing about standards is
Toronto | that you have so many to choose from..."
msb@vex.net | --Andrew Tanenbaum |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
batdorf
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:45 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
"Jim Lawton" <usenet1@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> escribió en el mensaje
news:lq3am1hg2hojgtv5j882os700qaskop0vc@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:04:05 -0700, Avind Caprihone <acap@hotmail.com
wrote:
I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
The former, round here. (Yorkshire)
|
Rahnd 'ere, surely?
I have often wondered why people from the north of England, having,
apparently, completely abandoned aitches, insist on having so many place
names that begin with the ostracised aspirate!
'ull, 'uddersfield, 'alifax, 'ebden bridge, 'eckmondwike,
'arrogate...er, no, probably wrong on the last one. They probably add a
few.."I hadore to talk about hart when hi and my hassociates meet in
Betty's Tea Room! ;)
'umphreyB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Lawler
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:12 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Armond Perretta <newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net> writes:
| Quote: | Avind Caprihone writes:
I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
This is a toss up. It depends on whether you want to say "one .. who cares"
or "one of those [members of the group] 'people who care'."
I am ready to sit corrected on this, but only by John Lawler.
|
Maintain your current posture, please. They're both grammatical, both
equally clear, and by a special (though surprisingly common) act of
Providence, they happen to mean the same thing (i.e, they both denote the
same set; this is not always guaranteed with complex determiners involving
quantification and coreference).
So, naturally, you gets your choice.
Say/Write whatever sounds/looks good to you.
It's *your* language, after all.
-John Lawler * Linguistics @ umich.edu & wwu.edu
------------------------------------------------------
"GRAMMAR, n. A system of pitfalls thoughtfully prepared
for the feet for the self-made man, along the path by
which he advances to distinction." -- Ambrose Bierce |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scotius
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:50 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:04:05 -0700, Avind Caprihone <acap@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
AC
|
That person cares, those people care. Plural is correct,
because the term just used is "those people". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Other Fran
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Avind Caprihone wrote:
| Quote: | I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
AC
|
Like most of the others who have responded, I believe either is
perfectly acceptable. I lean towards the second as preferable on the
following basis:
Those people care about food. I have never been a member of "those
people who care about food". Accordingly, I have never been "one of
those people who care about food".
Here "one of" denotes membership of a group described by a common
attribute [caring about food]. The caring is done by many.
Compare for example:
I am one of those people who care about food.
In this sentence, the person "cares" in concert with others. Thus, he
is one of those who care.
When a group attribute is unclear however, the singular is common.
e.g.
Person A: I'm going to be late!
Person B: Tell someone who cares.
Here, it's not clear that there is a group of people who do or would
care. The person is invited to find such a person. There might be none,
or perhaps only one.
Mind you, I'd be astonished if many would chip you on it, and if they
did, that they'd be able to satisfactorily explain why they didn't like
it. There's no ambiguity in practice in this instance.
TOF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:34 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
John Lawler wrote:
| Quote: | Armond Perretta <newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net> writes:
Avind Caprihone writes:
I have never been one of those people who cares about food.
Or,
I have never been one of those people who care about food.
That is, one of those who ... singular or plural?
This is a toss up. It depends on whether you want to say "one .. who cares"
or "one of those [members of the group] 'people who care'."
I am ready to sit corrected on this, but only by John Lawler.
Maintain your current posture, please. They're both grammatical, both
equally clear, and by a special (though surprisingly common) act of
Providence, they happen to mean the same thing (i.e, they both denote the
same set; this is not always guaranteed with complex determiners involving
quantification and coreference).
So, naturally, you gets your choice.
Say/Write whatever sounds/looks good to you.
It's *your* language, after all.
-John Lawler * Linguistics @ umich.edu & wwu.edu
------------------------------------------------------
"GRAMMAR, n. A system of pitfalls thoughtfully prepared
for the feet for the self-made man, along the path by
which he advances to distinction." -- Ambrose Bierce
|
I got excited for a moment since I thought I was being invited to
reply. Unfortunately for me, though probably fortunately for Armond,
you got there first.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
(Another John Lawler) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Armond Perretta
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:55 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | John Lawler wrote:
Armond Perretta <newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net> writes:
I am ready to sit corrected on this, but only by John Lawler.
Maintain your current posture, please. They're both grammatical,
both equally clear, and by a special (though surprisingly common)
act of Providence, they happen to mean the same thing (i.e, they
both denote the same set; this is not always guaranteed with complex
determiners involving quantification and coreference).
...
-John Lawler * Linguistics @ umich.edu & wwu.edu
I got excited for a moment since I thought I was being invited to
reply. Unfortunately for me, though probably fortunately for Armond,
you got there first.
|
I did not issue John a clear invitation, I merely stated my position and
John chose to comment.
Speaking of invitations, may I ask if you have ever arrived, on time, only
to learn it was the wrong dinner party?
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:26 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Armond Perretta wrote:
| Quote: | Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
John Lawler wrote:
Armond Perretta <newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net> writes:
I am ready to sit corrected on this, but only by John Lawler.
Maintain your current posture, please. They're both grammatical,
both equally clear, and by a special (though surprisingly common)
act of Providence, they happen to mean the same thing (i.e, they
both denote the same set; this is not always guaranteed with complex
determiners involving quantification and coreference).
...
-John Lawler * Linguistics @ umich.edu & wwu.edu
I got excited for a moment since I thought I was being invited to
reply. Unfortunately for me, though probably fortunately for Armond,
you got there first.
I did not issue John a clear invitation, I merely stated my position and
John chose to comment.
|
True, not a clear invitation but possibly a translucent or opaque one.
Should I have added a smiley or some such odd symbol? To me, marking a
joke spoils it. Although I did think that there was some sort of
invitation, I did not really think that it was directed at me.
| Quote: | Speaking of invitations, may I ask if you have ever arrived, on time, only
to learn it was the wrong dinner party?
|
You may ask but I don't recall if I have ever done this.
May I ask why you are asking?
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Armond Perretta
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:41 am
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | Armond Perretta wrote:
[ ... ]
... To me, marking a joke spoils it ...
... may I ask if you have ever arrived, on
time, only to learn it was the wrong dinner party?
May I ask why you are asking?
|
Reply: "To me, marking a joke spoils it."
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Which Usage Is Correct? |
|
|
Armond Perretta wrote:
| Quote: | Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:
[ ... ]
... To me, marking a joke spoils it ...
... may I ask if you have ever arrived, on
time, only to learn it was the wrong dinner party?
May I ask why you are asking?
Reply: "To me, marking a joke spoils it."
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare
|
A fair cop.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in