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Message |
iwasaki
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:05 am
Post subject: The board demanded |
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I found this from a TOEIC textbook:
* "The board demanded that the assistant was fired."
(It's possible in BrE, but it's wrong in TOEIC)
It should be:
"The board demanded that the assistant be fired."
or
"The board demanded that the assistant should be fired."
Similarly,
* "It is important that a boss takes care of his/her subordinates."
(It's possible in BrE, but it's wrong in TOEIC)
It should be:
"It is important that a boss take care of his/her subordinates."
or
"It is important that a boss should take care of his/her subordinates."
---------------------------------------------------------------
(TOEIC ("Test of English for International Communication") is
an English proficiency test made in the US, so testees need to
follow the US rules.)
The textbook also mentions that verbs like advise, ask, demand,
insist, recommend, request, require, and suggest are used like
that "the board demanded" sentence, which is
"Subject + Verb + that + Subject + [should +] the original form of Verb"
and that adjectives like necessary, natural, desirable,
imperative, important, essential, required, vital, fair, and
unfair are used like that "boss" sentence, which is
"It is + Adj + that + Subject + [should +] the original form of Verb".
Do you agree with what the textbook says?
Nonchan
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:05 am
Post subject: Re: The board demanded |
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iwasaki wrote:
| Quote: | I found this from a TOEIC textbook:
* "The board demanded that the assistant was fired."
(It's possible in BrE, but it's wrong in TOEIC)
It should be:
"The board demanded that the assistant be fired."
or
"The board demanded that the assistant should be fired."
Similarly,
* "It is important that a boss takes care of his/her subordinates."
(It's possible in BrE, but it's wrong in TOEIC)
It should be:
"It is important that a boss take care of his/her subordinates."
or
"It is important that a boss should take care of his/her subordinates."
---------------------------------------------------------------
(TOEIC ("Test of English for International Communication") is
an English proficiency test made in the US, so testees need to
follow the US rules.)
The textbook also mentions that verbs like advise, ask, demand,
insist, recommend, request, require, and suggest are used like
that "the board demanded" sentence, which is
"Subject + Verb + that + Subject + [should +] the original form of Verb"
and that adjectives like necessary, natural, desirable,
imperative, important, essential, required, vital, fair, and
unfair are used like that "boss" sentence, which is
"It is + Adj + that + Subject + [should +] the original form of Verb".
Do you agree with what the textbook says?
Nonchan
|
I agree with the textbook, with one restriction. The formula
"It is + Adj + that + Subject + [should +] the original form of Verb".
may be correct with "fair" and "unfair" only if the speaker is in a
position to exercise some sort of control over the situation.
"It is fair that the person chosen be the person with the highest test
score." could be said by someone who is involved in setting the
criteria for choosing the person.
But if the speaker is simply evaluating the situation and is not
involved in the criteria for choosing, he might come to a evaluation or
conclusion such as the following:
"It is fair that the person chosen is the person with the highest test
score."
In such a case, there is no variant using "should."
The situation is similar with the adjective "unfair."
I was watching a DVD of *The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes,* including the
story *The Mazarin Stone.* In the story, a British government official
is talking to Mycroft Holmes, Sherlock's brother:
"The Prime Minister has asked that your brother investigates this
case."
The person who wrote the closed captioning was likely an American,
since the captioning changed the wording:
"The Prime Minister has asked that your brother investigate this case."
(The captioner also attempted particularly odd phonetic spellings of
"L'Chaim" and "Train de Luxe"--the latter given as the name of a train
in France).
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: The board demanded |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:38:55 +0900, "iwasaki"
<pianoforteforte@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
| Quote: |
(TOEIC ("Test of English for International Communication") is
an English proficiency test made in the US
|
"George W. Bush - here are your results; oops, never mind, you're not bad with
the hogs."
--
Jim
the polymoth
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: The board demanded |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:38:55 +0900, "iwasaki"
<pianoforteforte@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrought:
| Quote: | (TOEIC ("Test of English for International Communication") is
an English proficiency test made in the US, so testees need to
follow the US rules.)
The textbook also mentions that verbs like advise, ask, demand,
insist, recommend, request, require, and suggest are used like
that "the board demanded" sentence, which is
"Subject + Verb + that + Subject + [should +] the original form of Verb"
|
There is another common form with "ask"
Someone asked that something (should) be done
Someone asked for something to be done
| Quote: | and that adjectives like necessary, natural, desirable,
imperative, important, essential, required, vital, fair, and
unfair are used like that "boss" sentence, which is
"It is + Adj + that + Subject + [should +] the original form of Verb".
|
And a similar form applies to all the above adjectives:
It is essential/required/unfair, etc. for something to be done
I am by no means an expert on AmE, but I suspect that, whenever this
form
It is + ADJ + for + N + to V
is possible, as it is in this example
It is important for us to be clear about our goals
it is more idiomatic in colloquial and neutral registers than the
structure you mention, which tends to sound rather (too?) formal:
It is important that we be clear about our goals
--
Ross Howard |
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John Holmes
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: The board demanded |
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iwasaki wrote:
| Quote: | I found this from a TOEIC textbook:
* "The board demanded that the assistant was fired."
(It's possible in BrE, but it's wrong in TOEIC)
|
I can understand why they would say that is wrong.
| Quote: |
Similarly,
* "It is important that a boss takes care of his/her subordinates."
(It's possible in BrE, but it's wrong in TOEIC)
|
I suspect that could be correct even in AmE, but with a slightly
different shade of meaning: that bosses _do_ take care of their
subordinates, and this fact should be seen as important.
(AusE speaker)
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au |
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