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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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blackdog wrote:
| Quote: | Is "What a space cadet" a slang? And, what does it mean?
Thanks
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When I worked for a Social Services department, with the black humour
that goes with the job, the Social Workers refered to people with
Mental Health problems as 'Space Cadets'.
DC
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John Lawler
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:36 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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blackdog <cljlk@hotmail.com> writes:
| Quote: | Is "What a space cadet" a slang? And, what does it mean?
|
Yes. You've already seen the response about Heinlein's "Space Cadet"
and "Tom Corbett". That's the source of the term. Its usage in modern
English is a takeoff on the term "spaced out". Anybody who's spaced
out can be called a space cadet.
To be "spaced out" is to have one's attention figuratively on outer space,
rather than on quotidian reality. There's also the intimation of space
(i.e, emptiness) inside the mind/head/brain. And a fair suspicion of
chronic marijuana use.
Executive summary: It's no compliment.
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler Michigan Linguistics
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like
painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living
beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve
a solemn silence. And so it is with written words."
-- Socrates (according to Plato) |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:36 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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Armond Perretta wrote:
| Quote: | Salvatore Volatile wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:
Later the term "space cadet" came to signify an individual who was
"out there," one who was either hopelessly naive or considerably
out-of-touch with the prevailing reality.
Presumably related to "spaced out" and "spacey", which have similar
meanings, although I wonder whether "spacey" is also influenced by
the "airhead" concept.
Since it is generally agreed that there is no "air" there, I doubt it.
|
Not only is there no air there, there's no there there.
--
John Dean
Oxford
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:47 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Armond Perretta wrote:
blackdog wrote:
Is "What a space cadet" a slang? And, what does it mean?
Local (aue) research _may_ show otherwise, but I seem to recall that this
term originated with the "Buck Rogers" phenom.
The expression seems to have originated with a juvenile novel by Robert
Heinlein, _Space Cadet_ (1948), about young men training to become
officers of the Space Patrol.
|
I wanted to write that, but I didn't know the dates. Weren't there a
series of them, sort of like "Midshipman Hornblower", in which the hero
gradually rises up through the ranks? In my opinion, these were the only
good books that Heinlein wrote. I hated all those grokking books that
came later.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:48 pm
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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| Quote: | Armond Perretta wrote:
Salvatore Volatile wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:
Later the term "space cadet" came to signify an individual who was
"out there," one who was either hopelessly naive or considerably
out-of-touch with the prevailing reality.
Presumably related to "spaced out" and "spacey", which have similar
meanings, although I wonder whether "spacey" is also influenced by
the "airhead" concept.
Since it is generally agreed that there is no "air" there, I doubt it.
|
The airhead concept, shit-for-brains, relates to a lack of substance,
not so much to the presence of air. A near-vacuum contains even less
than a volume of air, so your comment is vacuous.
--
Charles Riggs |
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John Lawler
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> writes:
| Quote: | jerry_friedman@yahoo.com writes:
Armond Perretta writes:
blackdog writes:
Is "What a space cadet" a slang? And, what does it mean?
Local (aue) research _may_ show otherwise, but I seem to recall that this
term originated with the "Buck Rogers" phenom.
The expression seems to have originated with a juvenile novel by Robert
Heinlein, _Space Cadet_ (1948), about young men training to become
officers of the Space Patrol.
I wanted to write that, but I didn't know the dates. Weren't there a
series of them, sort of like "Midshipman Hornblower", in which the hero
gradually rises up through the ranks? In my opinion, these were the only
good books that Heinlein wrote. I hated all those grokking books that
came later.
|
No. There were indeed a number of Heinlein juveniles, so-called because
the viewpoint characters were under 18, but all of them were one-off; no
repeating characters, no repeating universes, even. You may be confusing
"Space Cadet" with "Starship Trooper", whose protagonist does indeed
progress through the ranks from green recruit up to Lieutenant. But only in
that one book. "Starship Trooper" was the last juvenile Heinlein wrote,
and it was rejected by his usual juvenile publisher because of its
militaristic bent. The next year grokking started in earnest.
-John Lawler Linguistics umich.edu & wwu.edu
-------------------------------------------------------
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for love,
and then for a few close friends, and then for money."
- Molière |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:48 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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John Lawler wrote:
| Quote: | Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> writes:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com writes:
Armond Perretta writes:
blackdog writes:
Is "What a space cadet" a slang? And, what does it mean?
Local (aue) research _may_ show otherwise, but I seem to recall that this
term originated with the "Buck Rogers" phenom.
The expression seems to have originated with a juvenile novel by Robert
Heinlein, _Space Cadet_ (1948), about young men training to become
officers of the Space Patrol.
I wanted to write that, but I didn't know the dates. Weren't there a
series of them, sort of like "Midshipman Hornblower", in which the hero
gradually rises up through the ranks? In my opinion, these were the only
good books that Heinlein wrote. I hated all those grokking books that
came later.
No. There were indeed a number of Heinlein juveniles, so-called because
the viewpoint characters were under 18, but all of them were one-off; no
repeating characters, no repeating universes, even. You may be confusing
"Space Cadet" with "Starship Trooper", whose protagonist does indeed
progress through the ranks from green recruit up to Lieutenant. But only in
that one book. "Starship Trooper" was the last juvenile Heinlein wrote,
and it was rejected by his usual juvenile publisher because of its
militaristic bent. The next year grokking started in earnest.
|
"Starship Trooper" indeed. I just checked my bookshelf, thinking it
might be there, but sadly no.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:32 pm
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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Salvatore Volatile <me@privacy.net> writes:
| Quote: | Salvatore Volatile wrote:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:
Later the term "space cadet" came to signify an individual who
was "out there," one who was either hopelessly naive or
considerably out-of-touch with the prevailing reality.
I'll agree with that.
Any date for the later sense? Here's a usage from 1978:
"I call them space cadets, they are air headed," said Bouve, who
noted that students on drugs tend to be passive, listless and
sleepy and don't learn anything. 1978 Wash. Post 19 Oct. MD1
I should add that that's closer to my sense of what the usage is. A
"space cadet" isn't a naive or out-of-touch person -- a space cadet
is more "clueless", generally acting in a dazed or inattentive way,
maybe something like a gender-neutral "ditzy".
|
The OED cites it to 1973 in a typewritten slang lexicon from UNC:
space cadet (b) slang, a person regarded as out of touch with
reality, esp. (as if) as a result of taking drugs; a person prone
to flights of fancy or irrational or strange behaviour.
1973 _Slang_ (typescript) (Univ. North Carolina, Chapel Hill)
Fall, * _Space cadette_ [sic], someone who acts spaced out,
i.e., as if he has been on drugs: out of touch with reality.
I don't know whether this was in response to the slang or the genesis
of it, but
Some ghosts of the 1960s no doubt are rolling over in their graves
as Dr. Timothy Leary, America's self-proclaimed No. 1 space cadet,
launches himself into show business. [_LA Times_, 8/22/79]
So it may have been in use both positively (perhaps in a tongue-in-
cheek manner) and negatively in the '70s. Another such self-
application:
The presentations were interrupted briefly when Bernard Wocher, an
unsuccessful candidate for several public offices, tried to
approach the microphone...Barstrup said Wocher, who said he is
commander of an organization called "Space Cadets of America," was
not arrested. [_LA Times_, 3/11/77]
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Voting in the House of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Representatives is done by means of a
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |little plastic card with a magnetic
|strip on the back--like a VISA card,
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |but with no, that is, absolutely
(650)857-7572 |*no*, spending limit.
| P.J. O'Rourke
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
| Quote: | Salvatore Volatile <me@privacy.net> writes:
Salvatore Volatile wrote:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:
Later the term "space cadet" came to signify an individual who
was "out there," one who was either hopelessly naive or
considerably out-of-touch with the prevailing reality.
I'll agree with that.
Any date for the later sense? Here's a usage from 1978:
"I call them space cadets, they are air headed," said Bouve, who
noted that students on drugs tend to be passive, listless and
sleepy and don't learn anything. 1978 Wash. Post 19 Oct. MD1
I should add that that's closer to my sense of what the usage is. A
"space cadet" isn't a naive or out-of-touch person -- a space cadet
is more "clueless", generally acting in a dazed or inattentive way,
maybe something like a gender-neutral "ditzy".
The OED cites it to 1973 in a typewritten slang lexicon from UNC:
space cadet (b) slang, a person regarded as out of touch with
reality, esp. (as if) as a result of taking drugs; a person prone
to flights of fancy or irrational or strange behaviour.
1973 _Slang_ (typescript) (Univ. North Carolina, Chapel Hill)
Fall, * _Space cadette_ [sic], someone who acts spaced out,
i.e., as if he has been on drugs: out of touch with reality.
|
Note also the roughly synonymous expression "space case", also from the
mid-'70s:
-----
1976 _Los Angeles Times_ 16 Apr. IV16/2 The floor was packed, as it
would be for Buddy Miles or Canned Heat, and there was plenty of space
cases receptive to the group's crude energy level.
-----
1977 _Social Problems_ 24(3) Feb. 389 The "space case" is an individual
viewed by peers as delusionary and unpredictable.
-----
And in the mid-'80s came "waste case" for a "wasted" person. The
earliest I've seen for that is 1986, when Connie Eble found it used
among her students at UNC Chapel Hill (see _Slang and Sociability_,
searchable on Google Print and Amazon). |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:33 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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John Lawler wrote:
| Quote: | Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> writes:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com writes:
Armond Perretta writes:
blackdog writes:
Is "What a space cadet" a slang? And, what does it mean?
Local (aue) research _may_ show otherwise, but I seem to recall that this
term originated with the "Buck Rogers" phenom.
The expression seems to have originated with a juvenile novel by Robert
Heinlein, _Space Cadet_ (1948), about young men training to become
officers of the Space Patrol.
I wanted to write that, but I didn't know the dates. Weren't there a
series of them, sort of like "Midshipman Hornblower", in which the hero
gradually rises up through the ranks? In my opinion, these were the only
good books that Heinlein wrote. I hated all those grokking books that
came later.
No. There were indeed a number of Heinlein juveniles, so-called because
the viewpoint characters were under 18,
|
Also because they were intended for the juvenile market (and timed for
Christmas), and because the closest they got to mentioning sex was
noting that teenage boys sometimes liked the company of attractive
girls and women.
| Quote: | but all of them were one-off; no
repeating characters, no repeating universes, even.
|
I didn't realize that till you posted it. As it happens, though, the
Space Patrol is mentioned in two short stories: the remarkable (though
not necessarily good) "Situation Unsatisfactory" and the sentimental
"The Long Watch".
| Quote: | You may be confusing "Space Cadet" with "Starship Trooper",
|
Troopers.
| Quote: | whose protagonist does indeed
progress through the ranks from green recruit up to Lieutenant. But only in
that one book. "Starship Trooper" was the last juvenile Heinlein wrote,
and it was rejected by his usual juvenile publisher because of its
militaristic bent. The next year grokking started in earnest.
|
Although according to Heinlein, he started _Stranger in a Strange Land_
first, stopped in the middle to write ST in a burst of patriotic and
militaristic fervor brought on by the nuclear-test moratorium, and then
returned to _Stranger_. I'm not clear on his and others' claims that
the book had to be delayed until it would fit into the Zeitgeist.
--
Jerry Friedman |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:47 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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[...]
| Quote: | Salvatore Volatile wrote:
|
[...]
| Quote: | Here's a usage from 1978:
"I call them space cadets, they are air headed,"
said Bouve, [...] 1978 Wash. Post 19 Oct. MD1
|
I wonder if anyone ever explained to Bouve that most of
space has no air. |
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R J Valentine
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:47:30 GMT Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
....
} I wonder if anyone ever explained to Bouve that most of
} space has no air.
So would it surprise you to learn that most air is in space? Or are you
just making the point that most of earth's air has molecules far and few
between [= ArjE "most of air has no air"]?
ObAUE: What's "air"? Is Venus's atmosphere "air"? Is Mars's atmosphere
"air"? Is the hydrogen that space is chock full of "air"? Is the stuff
that deep-sea divers breathe "air"?
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@theWorld.com> |
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Armond Perretta
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:54 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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R J Valentine wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:47:30 GMT Bob Cunningham
exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote: ...
} I wonder if anyone ever explained to Bouve that most of
} space has no air.
So would it surprise you to learn that most air is in space? Or are
you
just making the point that most of earth's air has molecules far and
few between [= ArjE "most of air has no air"]?
ObAUE: What's "air"? Is Venus's atmosphere "air"? Is Mars's
atmosphere "air"? Is the hydrogen that space is chock full of "air"?
Is the stuff
that deep-sea divers breathe "air"?
|
The (once) usual definition started out with something like "an 80/20
mixture of nitrogen and oxygen with small amounts of other gases." Is it
time for an update, global warming-wise?
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:40 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:54:40 -0500, "Armond Perretta"
<newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net> said:
| Quote: | R J Valentine wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:47:30 GMT Bob Cunningham
exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote: ...
I wonder if anyone ever explained to Bouve that most of
space has no air.
|
[...]
| Quote: | ObAUE: What's "air"?
|
[...]
| Quote: | The (once) usual definition started out with something like "an 80/20
mixture of nitrogen and oxygen with small amounts of other gases." Is it
time for an update, global warming-wise?
|
From _Merriam-Webster's 11th Collegiate Dictionary_:
air
1 [...] b : the mixture of invisible odorless
tasteless gases (as nitrogen and oxygen) that
surrounds the earth
space
5 : the region beyond the earth's atmosphere or
beyond the solar system
So if it's not the mixture of gases that comprises the
earth's atmosphere, it isn't air, and if it isn't beyond the
earth's atmosphere, it isn't space.
To be more precise, instead of saying "most of space has no
air", I could have said "space has no air". |
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Richard Bollard
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: space cadet |
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On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:40:01 +0000 (UTC), R J Valentine
<rj@TheWorld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:47:30 GMT Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
...
} I wonder if anyone ever explained to Bouve that most of
} space has no air.
So would it surprise you to learn that most air is in space? Or are you
just making the point that most of earth's air has molecules far and few
between [= ArjE "most of air has no air"]?
|
Said Tom, breathlessly.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. |
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