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Message |
Gerald Smyth
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:37 am
Post subject: Retrofitting phrases |
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The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne. I find the retrofitted phrase ridiculous because it
appears to suggest that the difference actually matters: the managers
came down like a metric tonne of bricks.
The Google ratio for the retrofitted phrase is 0.34%, a figure which
(not surprisingly) rises to 4.4% when the search is restricted to UK
sites.
Another example is the changing of the spelling of the word
'neanderthal' to 'neandertal', presumably to bring it into line with
modern German orthography.
Is there a term for this phenomenon (besides the one I just made
up)?...g |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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Gerald Smyth:
| Quote: | The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne.
|
That is to say, the "metric ton", also called the (metric) "tonne".
| Quote: | I find the retrofitted phrase ridiculous because it appears to suggest
that the difference actually matters...
|
I see the same thing done here, and feel much the same way about it.
--
Mark Brader "Without nuclear weapons we will be nothing
Toronto more than a rich, powerful Canada...."
msb@vex.net -- A Walk in the Woods, by Lee Blessing |
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John Lawler
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> writes:
| Quote: | Gerald Smyth:
The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne.
|
Perhaps the journalist simply thought that was the only (or the only
correct) way to spell /t@n/. The two words are homophonous, after all.
Also after all, this is a journalist. Accompanied, no doubt, by a
copy editor.
| Quote: | That is to say, the "metric ton", also called the (metric) "tonne".
I find the retrofitted phrase ridiculous because it appears to suggest
that the difference actually matters...
I see the same thing done here, and feel much the same way about it.
|
How do you feel about "like a tun of bricks"?
Like you say, the effect would be identical,
though metaphorical, to be sure.
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/disclaimers.html |
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Troy Steadman
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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Mark Brader wrote:
| Quote: | Gerald Smyth:
The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne.
That is to say, the "metric ton", also called the (metric) "tonne".
|
Are you suggesting the "metric tonne" is non-metric? If it *is* metric
then it is (also) correct to call them "non-metric ton" and "metric
tonne" respectively. |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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John Lawler filted:
| Quote: |
How do you feel about "like a tun of bricks"?
Like you say, the effect would be identical,
though metaphorical, to be sure.
|
"Half-way up, I met the tun coming down"....r |
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Rick Wotnaz
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net> wrote in news:djta59030d4
@drn.newsguy.com:
| Quote: | John Lawler filted:
How do you feel about "like a tun of bricks"?
Like you say, the effect would be identical,
though metaphorical, to be sure.
"Half-way up, I met the tun coming down"....r
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Has SJS been documented here? I'm in the midst of a chiggle fit, for
which I thank you.
--
rzed |
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Mike Page
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:39:20 GMT, jlawler@umich.edu (John Lawler)
wrote:
| Quote: | Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> writes:
Gerald Smyth:
The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne.
Perhaps the journalist simply thought that was the only (or the only
correct) way to spell /t@n/. The two words are homophonous, after all.
Also after all, this is a journalist. Accompanied, no doubt, by a
copy editor.
That is to say, the "metric ton", also called the (metric) "tonne".
I find the retrofitted phrase ridiculous because it appears to suggest
that the difference actually matters...
I see the same thing done here, and feel much the same way about it.
How do you feel about "like a tun of bricks"?
Like you say, the effect would be identical,
though metaphorical, to be sure.
Which reminds me of |
http://www.monologues.co.uk/004/Bricklayers_Story.htm
Mike Page
mikeorang.page@portchimp.ac.uk
Kill the monkeys for email |
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TakenEvent
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:28 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases -- retronym |
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"Gerald Smyth" <geraldsmyth1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130459844.811883.77870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne. I find the retrofitted phrase ridiculous because it
appears to suggest that the difference actually matters: the managers
came down like a metric tonne of bricks.
The Google ratio for the retrofitted phrase is 0.34%, a figure which
(not surprisingly) rises to 4.4% when the search is restricted to UK
sites.
Another example is the changing of the spelling of the word
'neanderthal' to 'neandertal', presumably to bring it into line with
modern German orthography.
Is there a term for this phenomenon (besides the one I just made
up)?...g
|
Well, there is a term -- sorta. MW just released a list of the latest
additons to their dictionary. One of the new terms is "retronym."
My understanding of it is that it describes a situation like "analog clock,"
whereas the word "analog" was not necessary until we had _digital_ clocks.
Therefore, some clocks must now be retronym-ed.
http://www.m-w.com/info/new_words.htm |
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Paul Wolff
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:46 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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In message <clm8f.1068$yb2.1043@news.itd.umich.edu>, John Lawler
<jlawler@umich.edu> writes
| Quote: | Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> writes:
Gerald Smyth:
The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne.
Perhaps the journalist simply thought that was the only (or the only
correct) way to spell /t@n/. The two words are homophonous, after all.
|
There was a time some thirty-odd years ago when the tonne, being an
innovation for British industry, was recommended to be pronounced with
two syllables ("tunny") to avoid ambiguity.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:16 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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John Lawler wrote:
| Quote: | Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> writes:
Gerald Smyth:
The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne.
Perhaps the journalist simply thought that was the only (or the only
correct) way to spell /t@n/. The two words are homophonous, after all.
|
I hear a lot of people pronouncing "tonne" with an "o", making it quite
different from "ton".
--
Rob Bannister |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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Gerald Smyth:
| Quote: | The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne.
|
Mark Brader:
| Quote: | That is to say, the "metric ton", also called the (metric) "tonne".
|
Troy Steadman:
| Quote: | Are you suggesting the "metric tonne" is non-metric?
|
No, I'm pointing out that "metric tonne" is not a name of the unit,
in case anyone was tempted to misread the sentence that way. Its
correct name is either "megagram" (rarely used), "tonne", or "metric
ton". "Metric tonne" is *correct* in Gerald's sentence because
"metric" is being used there as an adjective modifying the unit
name, but it is not the unit's name. Hence my clarifying punctuation,
"(metric) 'tonne'".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | English is just getting used to the telephone.
msb@vex.net | -- John Lawler
My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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Gerald Smyth:
| Quote: | The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne.
I find the retrofitted phrase ridiculous because it appears to suggest
that the difference actually matters...
|
Mark Brader:
| Quote: | I see the same thing done here, and feel much the same way about it.
|
John Lawler:
| Quote: | How do you feel about "like a tun of bricks"?
|
I've never seen that, and if I did, I'd think that someone had their
homonyms confused.
--
Mark Brader "Also, be sure to include your signature TWICE in
Toronto each article. That way you're sure people will
msb@vex.net read it." -- "Emily Postnews" (Brad Templeton) |
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Jordan Abel
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:45 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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On 2005-10-29, Prai Jei <pvstownsend@zyx-abc.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | "Ton" was possibly rejected by the spell chucker citing EU
directive No. 217866734678652984698235 section 298 sub-paragraph
34(R)(xxviii)(t) which states that we should all be metricated by
now.
|
If you're supposed to be metricated, then why not call it a "ton" -
I mean, what other unit could it mean?
| Quote: | Curious that nobody calls the tonne a megagram...
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it's a kilokilogram. "gram" is obsolescent. it now goes like
.... microkilogram millikilogram kilogram kilokilogram ... |
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Prai Jei
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:22 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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Gerald Smyth (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<1130459844.811883.77870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>:
| Quote: | The following sentence from the 22 Oct Irish Times caught my eye:
Doctors in the hospital [Monaghan General Hospital] also stress that if
they did dispense with protocol, managers would be down on them *like a
tonne of bricks*.
The old avoirdupois ton of the traditional phrase has been replaced by
the metric tonne. I find the retrofitted phrase ridiculous because it
appears to suggest that the difference actually matters: the managers
came down like a metric tonne of bricks.
|
"Ton" was possibly rejected by the spell chucker citing EU directive No.
217866734678652984698235 section 298 sub-paragraph 34(R)(xxviii)(t) which
states that we should all be metricated by now.
Curious that nobody calls the tonne a megagram...
--
The internet is missing, I think I've deleted it.
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:05 am
Post subject: Re: Retrofitting phrases |
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Jordan Abel writes:
| Quote: | it's a kilokilogram. "gram" is obsolescent. it now goes like
... microkilogram millikilogram kilogram kilokilogram ...
|
That's not funny.
--
Mark Brader "Thus the metric system did not really catch on
Toronto in the States, unless you count the increasing
msb@vex.net popularity of the 9 mm bullet." -- Dave Barry |
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