danish origin in danish pastry
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danish origin in danish pastry
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Bertel Lund Hansen
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Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Pat Durkin skrev:

Quote:
I am not sure. It is true that we call it "wienerbr°d", and we
think of Wien if we focus on the word, but in German-speaking
countries it is known as "ein Copenhagener", which I doubt they
would call it if they invented it. I don't think anybody knows
who (first?) invented it.

Have you heard of "kringles" in Denmark?

Of course I have. One can't avoid knowing those either. "En
kringle" is something that has been wound around itself somehow,
and the bakers make them by folding and crossing the two ends of
a 'stick'. The kringle is not a specific recipe, but a shape one
can give for example wienerbr°d. I believe that the English word
for it is "pretzel". Kan they be large? I have a picture in my
mind of a pretzel from the cover of an album with Steely Dan
(Pretzel Logic), but it was small.

Here is a fine picture of wienerbr°d:
http://www.bager-kim.dk/tips/gyldne/wienerbrod.htm
The first one at the top is a kringle.

Note that the icing or stuffing of one shape may be used with
another shape as well. Kringler with chocolade or white icing are
quite common.

Here is another homepage with wienerbr°d. I haven't been able to
find any pages with English text.
http://www.danske-konditorer.dk/fagspecialer.asp?umenuID=4

Quote:
On one of the sites I found, the wienerbrod was the straight stick
version of the normally pretzel-shaped or circular kringle.

Both shapes are common, and one can almost use any
wienerbr°ds-recipe with any shape.

Quote:
On another site, the Sons of Norway were celebrating the
kringle, though I am sorry, I didn't keep spelling. It began
with "fodsel---" and went on forever with strange letters.

"F°dselsdagskringle" - "birthday pretzel"? Usually in Denmark we
serve "lagkage" (layer cake) or "brunsviger" (another speciality
that you may not know and which you definitely should taste if
ever you get the chance) at a birthday party, but it wouldn't
surprise me if some Danes would serve kringle. The brunsviger is
shaped as a man or a woman depending on the childs sex, and
consequently called a "kagemand" (cake man) or "kagekone" (cake
woman).

Quote:
I know some people think of the Danish pastry as an individual
baked spiral roll with some kind of cheese filling, but I
always think of the kringle first.

Pastry with cheese is *not* wienerbr°d. We have cakes, small and
large, with cheese, and I find them delicious, but they are not
that common. You usually won't find one at a baker's unless you
have ordered it beforehand.

Quote:
I wasn't able to find a site that dated the term, or that
separated the pastry from Santa Clause/Kris Kringle. But many
recipes never mention the kringle as a seasonal delicacy.

You can get kringle every day. At Christmas time we have a
variety called "julekringle" (Christmas pretzel), but kringle as
such is not a seasonal thing.

"Kringle" is Nordic or German, but it has something in common
with an English word, "cringe". Merriam-Webster explains:

Main Entry: 1cringe

Etymology: Middle English crengen; akin to Old English cringan to
yield, Middle High German krank weak

"Kringle" has to do with Danish "krŠnge", and "cringe" has to do
with "crengen". It's the same word - something with being weak or
yielding. One 'krŠnger' the two ends of the stick in order to
fold them and make a kringle.

--
Bertel
Denmark
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Skitt
Guest





Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

Quote:
"F├Şdselsdagskringle" - "birthday pretzel"? Usually in Denmark we
serve "lagkage" (layer cake) or "brunsviger" (another speciality
that you may not know and which you definitely should taste if
ever you get the chance) at a birthday party, but it wouldn't
surprise me if some Danes would serve kringle. The brunsviger is
shaped as a man or a woman depending on the childs sex, and
consequently called a "kagemand" (cake man) or "kagekone" (cake
woman).

Here is a picture showing three Latvian "birthday pretzels".

http://www.rsdc.lv/Daugmale/kultura/lidice/13.jpg

It is interesting to note that there is usually some letter inversion in the
Latvian word for that thing. I'll post this in UTF-8 so the diacritics stay
there.

The Latvian word for the cake is "kli┼ć─úeris", although "kri┼ć─úelis" is also
used. The difference may be a regional one.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest





Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Skitt skrev:

Quote:
It is interesting to note that there is usually some letter inversion in the
Latvian word for that thing. I'll post this in UTF-8 so the diacritics stay
there.

That is a phenomenon that has caught my interest - ever since i
was lectured by a more knowledgeable person that "ax" instead of
"ask" is a perfectly normal language phenomenon. I am now
collecting examples. One that involves two languages is "wasp"
which is "hveps" in Danish. I believe it is called "metatese" (in
Danish).

--
Bertel
Denmark
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Robert Bannister
Guest





Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

Quote:
Skitt skrev:


It is interesting to note that there is usually some letter inversion in the
Latvian word for that thing. I'll post this in UTF-8 so the diacritics stay
there.


That is a phenomenon that has caught my interest - ever since i
was lectured by a more knowledgeable person that "ax" instead of
"ask" is a perfectly normal language phenomenon. I am now
collecting examples. One that involves two languages is "wasp"
which is "hveps" in Danish. I believe it is called "metatese" (in
Danish).

"Metathesis" in English. It is quite common in the histories of many

European (and probably other) languages.

--
Rob Bannister
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest





Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Quote:
Skitt skrev:

It is interesting to note that there is usually some letter inversion in the
Latvian word for that thing. I'll post this in UTF-8 so the diacritics stay
there.

That is a phenomenon that has caught my interest - ever since i
was lectured by a more knowledgeable person that "ax" instead of
"ask" is a perfectly normal language phenomenon. I am now
collecting examples. One that involves two languages is "wasp"
which is "hveps" in Danish. I believe it is called "metatese" (in
Danish).

--
Bertel
Denmark


Some examples of metathesis in English:

Historical...

"bird" from "brid"

Two words currently in existence...

"crud," came from "curd"

"third" is related to "three" (Even in Old English, there were two
forms of "third": "thridda" and "thirdda.")

Standard pronunciation variant[1]...

"comfortable," of which metathesis has formed the standard variant
pronunciation "COMF-ter-b'l."

Nonstandard form...

"purty" from "pretty"


Note:

[1]Identified as standard variants by the *Merriam-Webster Online
Dictionary* and the AHD4


--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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J. J. Lodder
Guest





Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Bertel Lund Hansen <nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

Quote:
Skitt skrev:

It is interesting to note that there is usually some letter inversion in the
Latvian word for that thing. I'll post this in UTF-8 so the diacritics stay
there.

That is a phenomenon that has caught my interest - ever since i
was lectured by a more knowledgeable person that "ax" instead of
"ask" is a perfectly normal language phenomenon. I am now
collecting examples. One that involves two languages is "wasp"
which is "hveps" in Danish. I believe it is called "metatese" (in
Danish).

Indeed, Dutch has both.
Standard is 'wesp', but 'weps' is a very common mistake.
Some people always use 'weps'.
And one step further it becomes 'zwep',
but that is a mistake made mostly by small children.

Best,

Jan

--
"Erik was een beleefd jongetje; hij boog diep en zeide: źDag meneer de
weps╗. źWesp╗, sprak de wesp. źWeps╗, zei Erik blozend. Het was altijd
een van zijn moeilijke woorden geweest....
(Erik, of het klein insektenboek - Godfried Bomans)
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Lars Enderin
Guest





Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Jukka Aho wrote:
Quote:
Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

It is true that we call it "wienerbr°d" [in Denmark], and we
think of Wien if we focus on the word, but in German-speaking
countries it is known as "ein Copenhagener", which I doubt they
would call it if they invented it. I don't think anybody knows
who (first?) invented it.


Just for the record, the Finnish name for it ("viineri") is a reference
to Vienna as well.

Probably derived from the Swedish name: "wienerbr÷d".
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Christian Weisgerber
Guest





Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Bertel Lund Hansen <nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

Quote:
That is a phenomenon that has caught my interest - ever since i
was lectured by a more knowledgeable person that "ax" instead of
"ask" is a perfectly normal language phenomenon. I am now
collecting examples. One that involves two languages is "wasp"
which is "hveps" in Danish.

English "horse", German "Ross".

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest





Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Christian Weisgerber skrev:

Quote:
English "horse", German "Ross".

I forgot to tell you that "horse" used to be a Danish word also,
now only found in one proverb: "Mens grŠsset gror, d°r horsemor"
= "While the grass grows, the horses mother dies" ("mor" is there
just to make the rhyme).

My home town is Horsens. The name comes from "Hors nŠs" =
"Horses' nose" - an area protruding into the water where the
horses used to graze.

--
Bertel
Denmark
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest





Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Christian Weisgerber skrev:

Quote:
English "horse", German "Ross".

R÷▀lein, R÷▀lein, R÷▀lein rot,
R÷▀lein auf der Heiden ...

--
Bertel
Denmark
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CDB
Guest





Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

"Bertel Lund Hansen" <nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> wrote in message
news:1rxav10m6sj4p.xztstlqunoha$.dlg@40tude.net...
Quote:
Christian Weisgerber skrev:

English "horse", German "Ross".

R÷▀lein, R÷▀lein, R÷▀lein rot,
R÷▀lein auf der Heiden ...

Thought that was "R÷slein rot". But, then, I also thought it was a
plant disease.
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retrosorter
Guest





Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

What made me question the Danish origin of Danish pastry is the origin
of "patÚ chinois .known as shepherd's pie in English. It gets its name
of "'Chinese pie" not because of an oriental connection but In the late
19th century, thousands of Quebecers migrated to the northeastern
United States to work in mills. Some settled in a town in the state of
Maine called China. Those who returned to Quebec returned with a recipe
for shepherd's pie, which they called pÔtÚ chinois.
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest





Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

CDB skrev:

Quote:
R÷▀lein, R÷▀lein, R÷▀lein rot,
R÷▀lein auf der Heiden ...

Thought that was "R÷slein rot".

It is. I was trying to be FUNNY.

--
Bertel
Denmark
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Robert Bannister
Guest





Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

Quote:
Christian Weisgerber skrev:


English "horse", German "Ross".


I forgot to tell you that "horse" used to be a Danish word also,
now only found in one proverb: "Mens grŠsset gror, d°r horsemor"
= "While the grass grows, the horses mother dies" ("mor" is there
just to make the rhyme).

My home town is Horsens. The name comes from "Hors nŠs" =
"Horses' nose" - an area protruding into the water where the
horses used to graze.

The invasion of England by the Jutes was supposed to have been led by

two chiefs called Hengist and Horsa. Coincidence that both names mean
"horse" (OK, so Hengst is mare, but still a horse).

--
Rob Bannister
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest





Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: danish origin in danish pastry Reply with quote

Robert Bannister skrev:

Quote:
The invasion of England by the Jutes was supposed to have been
led by two chiefs called Hengist and Horsa. Coincidence that
both names mean "horse" (OK, so Hengst is mare, but still a
horse).

The word "hingst" is an ordinary word in Danish, but it means
"stallion". It seems probable that it is derived from "hengist".
Are you sure it's a mare?

But yes, a coincidence it is. On the other hand one may suppose
that, given the importance of horses at those times, such names
might have been common.

We don't have names today resembling those two, but we have
others that are really animal names: Bj°rn (bear), Ulf (wolf).

--
Bertel
Denmark
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