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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:18:37 -0700, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | I think that being elderly comes before
being old. Am I wrong?
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You are not. After you're old though, it may be possible to claim the
title of elder. Or not, depending on the person.
--
Charles Riggs
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:09:50 GMT, Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | I cling to the usage of my childhood: young up to 30, middle-aged up
to 65.
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You're kidding yourself. Do you think you'll live to be 130? As for
30, that is well past the median age of people in most modern cities;
it is nearing middle-age.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Richard Bollard
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:18:37 -0700, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net>
wrote:
[...]
Nice handbag, Skitt.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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The Other Fran wrote:
Well, it was on one of the cruises we took. I think that one was the Alaska
cruise along the Canadian coast aboard the Sun Princess (the old one that
was later sold to Premier). It might have been taken in the Burrard Inlet
as we were leaving the Vancouver harbor area.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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The Other Fran
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | The Other Fran wrote:
[about the meaning of "old"]
It struck me that we go about largely assuming he have a handle on
these basic things, and yet, I suppose it's not something you really
want to think about.
A person under 25 will almost everywhere qualify as a young person. A
person of under 30 who is part of a couple with small children will
probably be part of "a young couple" without being young individually.
The ten years to 40 are probably uncategorised or "thirty-something".
A person of 40 is probably middle-aged until they get to about 65. At
65 they *might* start to be rated as "old", and at 80 "elderly".
I think you have that backwards -- I think that being elderly comes before
being old. Am I wrong?
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Well if I'm the decisive arbiter, yes. "Elderly" people are by
definition, very fragile, clinging to life, to be treated with especial
care and consideration like some rediscovered ancient treasure. (Which,
often, they are. In my "dog visits" to hospitals, the things I hear
from some who are elderly are truly fascinating and I suspect, not to
be easily found elsewhere. I generally leave wishing there were some
simple way to archive these moments in their journeys on this planet).
| Quote: | I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I
was 21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually
a lot younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
Hah, when I was 65, I was still working and running up and down the long
stairs to get to my workplace. I was also the second-best table tennis
player there. Number one was a younger Taiwanese who used to play on the
Taiwanese national table tennis team. I retired at 67, because my wife
wanted to get back to California. Well, there were a couple of work-related
reasons also. I am now almost 73, and by gosh, I think I'm getting to be
elderly. Rats. Another ten years or so and I'll be old. Maybe not. I'll
have to ask Bob C. about that. The young girls stopped noticing me when I
got to be in my late fifties. In my early fifties I looked like this:
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/KA3.jpg
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That pic looks just as if you were riding the Manly Ferry. That's
probably very Sydney of me.
TOF |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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Robert Lieblich wrote:
| Quote: | Joe Fineman wrote:
I cling to the usage of my childhood: young up to 30, middle-aged up
to 65. The latter boundary is pretty much the official one in the
U.S.: the standard age for going on Social Security, the minimum age
for a senior ID from the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority, etc.
The age for Social Security benefits is slowly creeping up. I won't
qualify until 65 years, six months. Medicare still cuts in at 65.
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How does that work? Normally you pay for Medicare Part B from your Social
Security benefit. If there is no benefit, do you then have to send them
money from other sources? Or is it that you don't get Part B? Must be the
latter.
| Quote: | Qualitatively, of course, there is a gradient. I have compiled the
following checklist along the way:
[] The president of the U.S. is older than you are.
I think you mean younger. Clinton was the first such for me.
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Me too.
| Quote: | [] More people pass you on the sidewalk than you pass.
It's the ones going the same direction that I resent.
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Well, the right hip does slow me down a bit, but most of them still can't
catch me. When I was younger, nobody could.
| Quote: | [] Somebody gives up his seat for you.
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Never happened.
| Quote: | [] You get a dietary supplement when you floss your teeth.
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Naah.
| Quote: | [] The hair on top of your head is too thin to hold the hair in front
down.
Hair What hair? [1]
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Lots of hair on my head. Receding just a little bit.
| Quote: | [] Before you do anything, you have to do something else, usually
piss.
Usually, hell. Always.
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Naah, only if I want to go back to sleep.
| Quote: |
[1] Actually, I have quite a bit of hair for a man my age. Much of
it is on my head.
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--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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The Other Fran
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:25 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | On 26 Oct 2005 02:38:58 -0700, "The Other Fran"
fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote:
A person under 25 will almost everywhere qualify as a young person. A
person of under 30 who is part of a couple with small children will
probably be part of "a young couple" without being young individually.
The ten years to 40 are probably uncategorised or "thirty-something". A
person of 40 is probably middle-aged until they get to about 65. At 65
they *might* start to be rated as "old", and at 80 "elderly".
I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I was
21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually a lot
younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
I started an almost identical thread some time back, perhaps before
your august arrival, New Fran.
This time I'll note that the average age in Dublin is 25, so one can
hardly say a 24-year old is particularly young, at least here.
Most of us are dead before we reach 80, so 35 - 45 is middle-aged.
As I reckon it, the categories roughly go:
0 - 4 Baby
5 - 12 Child
13 - 17 Teenager
18 - 22 Young adult
23 - 34 Adult
35 - 45 Middle-aged
46 - 59 Elderly
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OUCH!!! I'm elderly in this one. I'd just got used to being
middle-aged. And I have to wait 30 years to be wise. I'm not sure I'll
ever be wise in that case.
| Quote: | 60 - 77 Old
78 - Wise old man, or woman: an elder
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If someone of 78 is an "elder" doesn't that make them "elderly"?
| Quote: | People invariably place the middle-aged period of life much later in
life that they oughta. Most people fear death.
--
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I don't fear death. I do fear incapacity, indignity and unfinished
business however.
TOF |
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The Other Fran
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:09:50 GMT, Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net
wrote:
I cling to the usage of my childhood: young up to 30, middle-aged up
to 65.
You're kidding yourself. Do you think you'll live to be 130? As for
30, that is well past the median age of people in most modern cities;
it is nearing middle-age.
--
Charles Riggs
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Isn't the median the halfway point between the greatest and smallest
values in a range?
If the oldest living person in a city is 102, and the youngest 0, then
isn't the median 51?
I tend to see middle-age as that big chunk in the middle of life
enclosing roughly 35-40% of the populace -- hence my parameters above.
TOF |
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JF
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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X-No-Archive: yes
In message <3sajc8FmuisjU1@individual.net>, Robert Bannister
<robban@it.net.au> writes
| Quote: | The Other Fran wrote:
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
I never thought I'd fancy women in their 60s or find women in their 40s
is too young! Sometimes, our Morris side dances at old people's homes
and we are finding more and more that a few of us are little older than
the inmates.
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The speed at which lovely Valenciano girls can turn into shapeless,
black-clad dumplings on legs is frightening.
--
James Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk |
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R J Valentine
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:37 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:13:42 +0100 Don Aitken <don-aitken@freeuk.com> wrote:
....
} No, I think that's the modal value. The median is the value which is
} larger than exactly half the values in the set (and therefore smaller
} than the other half). For ages of populations, it is always much less
} than the average (mean), which gives more weight to the small number
} of people who reach very great ages.
}
} Most people have more than the average number of legs.
But the median number of legs of the set of two-legged people is larger
than two (and therefore smaller than two)? It's the former programmer in
me that asks, however much I agree heartily with you.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@theWorld.com> |
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Don Aitken
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:13 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On 26 Oct 2005 23:29:52 -0700, "The Other Fran"
<fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Charles Riggs wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:09:50 GMT, Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net
wrote:
I cling to the usage of my childhood: young up to 30, middle-aged up
to 65.
You're kidding yourself. Do you think you'll live to be 130? As for
30, that is well past the median age of people in most modern cities;
it is nearing middle-age.
Isn't the median the halfway point between the greatest and smallest
values in a range?
No, I think that's the modal value. The median is the value which is |
larger than exactly half the values in the set (and therefore smaller
than the other half). For ages of populations, it is always much less
than the average (mean), which gives more weight to the small number
of people who reach very great ages.
Most people have more than the average number of legs.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:19 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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Fran Barlow:
| Quote: | Isn't the median the halfway point between the greatest and smallest
values in a range?
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Don Aitken:
| Quote: | No, I think that's the modal value.
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No, the mode or modal value is the most frequently occurring one.
I don't think there *is* a common term for the halfway point between
the greatest and smallest values; it's not a concept that's useful
very often.
| Quote: | The median is the value which is larger than exactly half the values
in the set (and therefore smaller than the other half).
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True.
| Quote: | For ages of populations, it is always much less than the average
(mean), which gives more weight to the small number of people who
reach very great ages.
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"Always much less" is much too strong. See e.g.
http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research/files/P101000002.pdf
--
Mark Brader "By this time I was feeling guilty. No, correction,
Toronto I was feeling that I *should* feel guilty ..."
msb@vex.net -- Jude Devereaux
My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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Richard Ulrich
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:40 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:19:58 -0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
| Quote: | Fran Barlow:
Isn't the median the halfway point between the greatest and smallest
values in a range?
Don Aitken:
No, I think that's the modal value.
No, the mode or modal value is the most frequently occurring one.
I don't think there *is* a common term for the halfway point between
the greatest and smallest values; it's not a concept that's useful
very often.
|
Just call it "the center of the range" or maybe the midrange point.
| Quote: |
The median is the value which is larger than exactly half the values
in the set (and therefore smaller than the other half).
True.
For ages of populations, it is always much less than the average
(mean), which gives more weight to the small number of people who
reach very great ages.
|
That is true for human populations that are undergoing
rapid growth -- most countries in the 19th and 20th century.
A familiar chart shows a "population pyramid" with age
groups in descending order, and Males and Females plotted
to either side of a center line -- [aligned for fixed format]
MF (oldest)
MMFF
MMMFFF
MMMMFFFF
MMMMMFFFFF (youngest)
A similar triangle could result from heavy mortality, but
this shape was seen because human populations were
doubling every 35 years or so. A no-growth human
population is much more like a rounded-off block.
That .pdf has two charts for the U.S. with averages less
than a year greater than the stated medians. The shape is
more like a block than a pyramid or triangle.
--
Rich Ulrich, wpilib@pitt.edu
http://www.pitt.edu/~wpilib/index.html |
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Joe Fineman
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:29 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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Robert Lieblich <robert.lieblich@verizon.net> writes:
| Quote: | Joe Fineman wrote:
Qualitatively, of course, there is a gradient. I have compiled the
following checklist along the way:
[] The president of the U.S. is older than you are.
I think you mean younger.
|
Right. That's another thing that happens. %^)
When Norman Thomas was on his deathbed, blind & going deaf, a reporter
interviewed him. The interview began, roughly:
"How are you, Mr Thomas?"
"It could be worse."
"How could it be worse, Mr Thomas?"
"I might lose my mind."
| Quote: | Clinton was the first such for me.
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Same for me. That criterion brings on age suddenly, the way standard
time brings on autumn.
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net
||: If stupidity got us into this, why can't it get us out?  | |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:37 am
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:09:50 GMT, Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net
wrote:
I cling to the usage of my childhood: young up to 30, middle-aged up
to 65.
You're kidding yourself. Do you think you'll live to be 130? As for
30, that is well past the median age of people in most modern cities;
it is nearing middle-age.
|
I think many people don't take "middle age" as literally "halfway
done".
Middle age starts at 1 billion seconds and old age starts at 2 billion.
IHS.
--
Jerry Friedman |
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