| Author |
Message |
The Other Fran
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:38 pm
Post subject: What is "old"? |
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My 12-year-old has had the mortality question much on his mind lately.
He has been talking about the things that lengthen or shorten life, how
long people are "supposed" to live, how old hubby and I will be when he
is this age or that age, how long he'd likely to live after we die and
so forth.
Today, in the latest instalment, he asked me how old I'd be in 2020. I
invited him to use his maths and work out how many years there were
between the year I was born (1958) and 2020, and fairly quickly he came
back with 62.
He then said without changing his analytic tone: "You'll be old then
right?"
I'm usually very confident but I wasn't sure here. I eventually offered
the banality that I'd be a lot older than now, without necessarily
being "old".
"What about 2030 then?" he followed.
"Hmm, maybe."
It struck me that we go about largely assuming he have a handle on
these basic things, and yet, I suppose it's not something you really
want to think about.
A person under 25 will almost everywhere qualify as a young person. A
person of under 30 who is part of a couple with small children will
probably be part of "a young couple" without being young individually.
The ten years to 40 are probably uncategorised or "thirty-something". A
person of 40 is probably middle-aged until they get to about 65. At 65
they *might* start to be rated as "old", and at 80 "elderly".
I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I was
21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually a lot
younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
TOF
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Cheryl Perkins
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:38 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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FB <fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it> wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: | respect. If I wonder whether she's old, I have two answers: physically,
yes, albeit as little as possible, and except for her remarkable brain;
mentally, definitely not, for her quick-wittedness (but this is rather
physical), intelligence and broad mind.
|
I try to side-step the entire question by simply refusing to define 'old'
as a negative term. I have been helped in this endeavour by a number of
people whose company I have enjoyed even though they were old at the time.
I tend to think of myself at 50 as middle-aged verging on old, but it
doesn't bother me. I would not refer to others as 'old' or even 'verging
on old' for fear of offending them if they happened to be of the opinion
that being old was bad.
If I happen to live to 100 and retain enough of my wits to object, I will
refuse to be interviewed by anyone who intends to write a human interest
article referring to me as '100 years young'.
I did allow my thinking to become stereotypical of the aging person this
morning, when I noticed two young police officers in a fast food line-up.
I thought they looked like they should still be in school. I tried to
imagine calling on them should an emergency occur, and my mind boggled.
They were mere children in my eyes!
--
Cheryl |
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Nate Branscom
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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The Other Fran wrote:
| Quote: | My 12-year-old has had the mortality question much on his mind lately.
He has been talking about the things that lengthen or shorten life, how
long people are "supposed" to live, how old hubby and I will be when he
is this age or that age, how long he'd likely to live after we die and
so forth.
Today, in the latest instalment, he asked me how old I'd be in 2020. I
invited him to use his maths and work out how many years there were
between the year I was born (1958) and 2020, and fairly quickly he came
back with 62.
He then said without changing his analytic tone: "You'll be old then
right?"
I'm usually very confident but I wasn't sure here. I eventually offered
the banality that I'd be a lot older than now, without necessarily
being "old".
"What about 2030 then?" he followed.
"Hmm, maybe."
It struck me that we go about largely assuming he have a handle on
these basic things, and yet, I suppose it's not something you really
want to think about.
A person under 25 will almost everywhere qualify as a young person. A
person of under 30 who is part of a couple with small children will
probably be part of "a young couple" without being young individually.
The ten years to 40 are probably uncategorised or "thirty-something". A
person of 40 is probably middle-aged until they get to about 65. At 65
they *might* start to be rated as "old", and at 80 "elderly".
I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I was
21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually a lot
younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
TOF
|
You're only as old as you feel!
--Nate
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:11 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On 26 Oct 2005 02:38:58 -0700, "The Other Fran"
<fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrought:
| Quote: | A person under 25 will almost everywhere qualify as a young person. A
person of under 30 who is part of a couple with small children will
probably be part of "a young couple" without being young individually.
The ten years to 40 are probably uncategorised or "thirty-something". A
person of 40 is probably middle-aged until they get to about 65. At 65
they *might* start to be rated as "old", and at 80 "elderly".
I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I was
21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually a lot
younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
|
My range for "middle-aged" comes later than yours; for me it runs from
about 50 until retirement. People in their forties are just that --
"in their forties".
As for "old", it depends not only on the age of the person doing the
reckoning, but also on the context: a Law Lord aged 65 may well be
considered a young turk, yet at only 20 female gymnasts are written
off as old and past it.
--
Ross Howard |
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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The Other Fran skrev:
| Quote: | He then said without changing his analytic tone: "You'll be old then
right?"
I'm usually very confident but I wasn't sure here. I eventually offered
the banality that I'd be a lot older than now, without necessarily
being "old".
"What about 2030 then?" he followed.
"Hmm, maybe."
It struck me that we go about largely assuming he have a handle on
these basic things, and yet, I suppose it's not something you really
want to think about.
|
I think that "old" has become a difficult concept these days. I
burned my fingers (a Danish way of saying that I made a grave
error unknowingly) once when I talked to a collegue of mine about
an experiment made with old ladies who claimed that they could
knit and concentrate fully on something else at the same time.
She said "Thank you!" when I specified that the ladies in
question were more than sixty years old. It then dawned on me
that she was sixtysomething, and she was far from old in my
oppinion.
Since then I have noticed several times that people with a high
number of years may not be old. I think it has a lot to do with
the way they live today.
Maybe it is as my friend once said to an audience of scouts (not
vebatim): 'Old' has not got anything to do with how long you have
lived. It has got to do with how you live.
| Quote: | I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old
when I was 21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively,
I'm actually a lot younger now than when I was 16, if you
think about it.
|
Personally I haven't (yet?) thought of myself as old in any way
(I am 57). I only realize my age when I see some snotty kid being
interviewed on tv and then read on the presentation line that he
is managing director of some billion dollar company.
--
Bertel
http://bertel.lundhansen.dk/ http://fiduso.dk/ |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On 26 Oct 2005 02:38:58 -0700, "The Other Fran" <fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | My 12-year-old has had the mortality question much on his mind lately.
He has been talking about the things that lengthen or shorten life, how
long people are "supposed" to live, how old hubby and I will be when he
is this age or that age, how long he'd likely to live after we die and
so forth.
Today, in the latest instalment, he asked me how old I'd be in 2020. I
invited him to use his maths and work out how many years there were
between the year I was born (1958) and 2020, and fairly quickly he came
back with 62.
He then said without changing his analytic tone: "You'll be old then
right?"
I'm usually very confident but I wasn't sure here. I eventually offered
the banality that I'd be a lot older than now, without necessarily
being "old".
"What about 2030 then?" he followed.
"Hmm, maybe."
It struck me that we go about largely assuming he have a handle on
these basic things, and yet, I suppose it's not something you really
want to think about.
A person under 25 will almost everywhere qualify as a young person. A
person of under 30 who is part of a couple with small children will
probably be part of "a young couple" without being young individually.
The ten years to 40 are probably uncategorised or "thirty-something". A
person of 40 is probably middle-aged until they get to about 65. At 65
they *might* start to be rated as "old", and at 80 "elderly".
I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I was
21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually a lot
younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
|
Relative to what exactly?
| Quote: |
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
|
Your last paragraph shows how this syndrome works, I think. You say how you felt
about other people / ages, at different ages - you don't say "_I_ felt young" or
"now _I_ feel old".
I am sixty. I feel very little different from the way I have felt all my life.
How others see me, I have no idea.
When I took my father on holiday in the last year of his life (he was 82) he
suddenly stopped, as we were walking, and said "For the first time in my life, I
feel old".
--
Jim
the polymoth |
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The Other Fran
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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Jim Lawton wrote:
| Quote: | On 26 Oct 2005 02:38:58 -0700, "The Other Fran" <fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote:
My 12-year-old has had the mortality question much on his mind lately.
He has been talking about the things that lengthen or shorten life, how
long people are "supposed" to live, how old hubby and I will be when he
is this age or that age, how long he'd likely to live after we die and
so forth.
Today, in the latest instalment, he asked me how old I'd be in 2020. I
invited him to use his maths and work out how many years there were
between the year I was born (1958) and 2020, and fairly quickly he came
back with 62.
He then said without changing his analytic tone: "You'll be old then
right?"
I'm usually very confident but I wasn't sure here. I eventually offered
the banality that I'd be a lot older than now, without necessarily
being "old".
"What about 2030 then?" he followed.
"Hmm, maybe."
It struck me that we go about largely assuming he have a handle on
these basic things, and yet, I suppose it's not something you really
want to think about.
A person under 25 will almost everywhere qualify as a young person. A
person of under 30 who is part of a couple with small children will
probably be part of "a young couple" without being young individually.
The ten years to 40 are probably uncategorised or "thirty-something". A
person of 40 is probably middle-aged until they get to about 65. At 65
they *might* start to be rated as "old", and at 80 "elderly".
I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I was
21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually a lot
younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
Relative to what exactly?
|
I was being facetious playing around with the "perspective" element in
the definition. At 16 I was only 5 years from being old. At 47 I'm 18
years younger than old. So relatively speaking, I'm younger now than
then.
| Quote: |
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
Your last paragraph shows how this syndrome works, I think. You say how you felt
about other people / ages, at different ages - you don't say "_I_ felt young" or
"now _I_ feel old".
|
That's true. I hadn't thought about it, except in the negative sense --
not old.
| Quote: | I am sixty. I feel very little different from the way I have felt all my life.
How others see me, I have no idea.
When I took my father on holiday in the last year of his life (he was 82) he
suddenly stopped, as we were walking, and said "For the first time in my life, I
feel old".
|
I started to worry when I first saw my father as fragile. He'd always
seemed so robust when I was much younger.
TOF |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:04 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:16:20 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Since then I have noticed several times that people with a high
number of years may not be old. I think it has a lot to do with
the way they live today.
Maybe it is as my friend once said to an audience of scouts (not
vebatim): 'Old' has not got anything to do with how long you have
lived. It has got to do with how you live.
|
http://nobelprize.org/medicine/laureates/1986/levi-montalcini-autobio.html
Rita Levi Montalcini is 96 years... old, and yet I recently saw her talking
on tv and she was so quick-witted as ever. The very way she spoke. She said
she didn't take any pills, but rather she just worked as much as she did
when she was twenty. As a scientist, of course, not as a miner, with due
respect. If I wonder whether she's old, I have two answers: physically,
yes, albeit as little as possible, and except for her remarkable brain;
mentally, definitely not, for her quick-wittedness (but this is rather
physical), intelligence and broad mind.
[...]
Bye, FB
--
No point in crying over spilt husband.
(The Cheap Detective) |
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Tom Wagner
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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"The Other Fran" <fran_beta@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1130319538.419223.26640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | It struck me that we go about largely assuming he have a handle on
these basic things, and yet, I suppose it's not something you really
want to think about.
|
Age is a matter of mind -
if you don't mind it doesn't matter!
Tom W. |
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JF
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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|
X-No-Archive: yes
In message <etq7pwllpxbh$.1xqa5i5k8h4je.dlg@40tude.net>, Bertel Lund
Hansen <nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> writes
| Quote: | I think that "old" has become a difficult concept these days.
|
I was delighted with the monicker 'old age pensioner' when I turned 65
last year. I use it now with great pride. Crumbly is even better.
Oh let me die a youngman's death
Not a tiptoe in, candle wax
What a nice way to go death
Or similar words from Roger McGough which I can't be
arsed to look up.
| Quote: | Personally I haven't (yet?) thought of myself as old in any way
(I am 57). I only realize my age when I see some snotty kid being
interviewed on tv and then read on the presentation line that he
is managing director of some billion dollar company.
|
There was a joke about one being old when police constables looked
young. Now chief constables look young.
--
James Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:52 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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|
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:27:43 +0000 (UTC), Cheryl Perkins wrote:
| Quote: | FB <fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it> wrote:
snip
respect. If I wonder whether she's old, I have two answers: physically,
yes, albeit as little as possible, and except for her remarkable brain;
mentally, definitely not, for her quick-wittedness (but this is rather
physical), intelligence and broad mind.
I try to side-step the entire question by simply refusing to define 'old'
as a negative term.
|
I see, but---maybe this is more evident in Italian---when someone asks me
whether a person I reckon very smart and broad-minded is old, I feel like
observing: "well, old...".
[...]
Bye, FB
--
"While I'm here, might I make a few changes? I adore my bedroom, but do you
think I could have my curtains washed? I believe they're red, but I should
like to make sure."
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film) |
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Ted Schuerzinger
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:53 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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|
Somebody claiming to be "The Other Fran" <fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130319538.419223.26640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
| Quote: | I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I was
21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually a lot
younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
|
A few months back in an "off-topic" section of a tennis forum, somebody
started a thread titled, "Name your favorite *classic* R&B tunes from
*1992-1995* [emphasis added]". I'm "only" 33, and there's no way the
early to mid-1990s is "classic"!
--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
Oh Marge, anyone can miss Canada, all tucked away down there....
--Homer Simpson |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:03 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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The Other Fran filted:
| Quote: |
I was being facetious playing around with the "perspective" element in
the definition. At 16 I was only 5 years from being old. At 47 I'm 18
years younger than old. So relatively speaking, I'm younger now than
then.
|
It's the "My Back Pages" effect....
Until a few days ago, I would have stated unequivocally that 70 was
"old"...Sunday my father reached that birthday, and it struck me that the
difference from 69 to 70 is no more than that from 68 to 69 (is even slightly
less, in relative terms), and that regardless of his health problems, Dad's in
much better shape than his father was at 65....r |
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irwell
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:34 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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|
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:27:02 +0100, JF <jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: | X-No-Archive: yes
In message <etq7pwllpxbh$.1xqa5i5k8h4je.dlg@40tude.net>, Bertel Lund
Hansen <nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> writes
I think that "old" has become a difficult concept these days.
I was delighted with the monicker 'old age pensioner' when I turned 65
last year. I use it now with great pride. Crumbly is even better.
Oh let me die a youngman's death
Not a tiptoe in, candle wax
What a nice way to go death
Or similar words from Roger McGough which I can't be
arsed to look up.
Personally I haven't (yet?) thought of myself as old in any way
(I am 57). I only realize my age when I see some snotty kid being
interviewed on tv and then read on the presentation line that he
is managing director of some billion dollar company.
There was a joke about one being old when police constables looked
young. Now chief constables look young.
You know you are getting along in age when the |
Beefeaters are all younger than you. |
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irwell
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:35 pm
Post subject: Re: What is "old"? |
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|
On 26 Oct 2005 03:06:08 -0700, "Nate Branscom"
<the_n8ball@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
The Other Fran wrote:
My 12-year-old has had the mortality question much on his mind lately.
He has been talking about the things that lengthen or shorten life, how
long people are "supposed" to live, how old hubby and I will be when he
is this age or that age, how long he'd likely to live after we die and
so forth.
Today, in the latest instalment, he asked me how old I'd be in 2020. I
invited him to use his maths and work out how many years there were
between the year I was born (1958) and 2020, and fairly quickly he came
back with 62.
He then said without changing his analytic tone: "You'll be old then
right?"
I'm usually very confident but I wasn't sure here. I eventually offered
the banality that I'd be a lot older than now, without necessarily
being "old".
"What about 2030 then?" he followed.
"Hmm, maybe."
It struck me that we go about largely assuming he have a handle on
these basic things, and yet, I suppose it's not something you really
want to think about.
A person under 25 will almost everywhere qualify as a young person. A
person of under 30 who is part of a couple with small children will
probably be part of "a young couple" without being young individually.
The ten years to 40 are probably uncategorised or "thirty-something". A
person of 40 is probably middle-aged until they get to about 65. At 65
they *might* start to be rated as "old", and at 80 "elderly".
I remember thinking 21 was old when I was 16, and 30 was old when I was
21. Now I've pushed "old" back to 65. Relatively, I'm actually a lot
younger now than when I was 16, if you think about it.
But what will I think if I make 65? Not sure.
TOF
You're only as old as you feel!
--Nate
The one I feel is 75, she still feels pretty good. |
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