| Author |
Message |
Henry Hooray
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:4356cdf5@nocnews001.allthesites.org...
| Quote: | All the vowels and consonants have changed their sound in Germanic
languages in the past 2000 years whereas in Greek they have remained
constant so do not consider English as a guide to Greek pronunciation.
Who told you that? Greek has changed a great deal in that time.
|
You are correct, there is of course not the remotest chance that Greek
pronunciation hasn't changed.
This is a 'discussion' our young but all-knowing friend Agamemnon has had
several times, both here and elsewhere. People who know what they talk about
have rebutted him several times, but Agamemnon is incapable of learning.
Agamemnon lives in a dream-world, a world inhabited by the ancient heroes,
and still run by the Greek gods. Yes, he has stated that Turkey is harder
hit by earthquakes than Greece, because they worship Poseidon less in Turkey
than they do in Greece (sadly, Agamemnon hasn't answered my query as to how
many Scandinavians, living in an area largely free from any noteworthy
tremors, worship Agamemnon's fairies).
Henry.
|
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| Back to top |
|
 |
choro-nik
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
"Henry Hooray" <c2mipq402@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rs78kFkrf72U1@individual.net...
| Quote: | "Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:4356cdf5@nocnews001.allthesites.org...
All the vowels and consonants have changed their sound in Germanic
languages in the past 2000 years whereas in Greek they have remained
constant so do not consider English as a guide to Greek pronunciation.
Who told you that? Greek has changed a great deal in that time.
You are correct, there is of course not the remotest chance that Greek
pronunciation hasn't changed.
This is a 'discussion' our young but all-knowing friend Agamemnon has had
several times, both here and elsewhere. People who know what they talk
about have rebutted him several times, but Agamemnon is incapable of
learning.
Agamemnon lives in a dream-world, a world inhabited by the ancient heroes,
and still run by the Greek gods. Yes, he has stated that Turkey is harder
hit by earthquakes than Greece, because they worship Poseidon less in
Turkey than they do in Greece (sadly, Agamemnon hasn't answered my query
as to how many Scandinavians, living in an area largely free from any
noteworthy tremors, worship Agamemnon's fairies).
|
Greek Gods do NOT rule in Scandinavian lands. Ask Agamemnonass, he will
confirm what I've just said.
--
choro-nik
*******
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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Agamemnon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
"Henry Hooray" <c2mipq402@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rs78kFkrf72U1@individual.net...
| Quote: | "Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:4356cdf5@nocnews001.allthesites.org...
All the vowels and consonants have changed their sound in Germanic
languages in the past 2000 years whereas in Greek they have remained
constant so do not consider English as a guide to Greek pronunciation.
Who told you that? Greek has changed a great deal in that time.
You are correct, there is of course not the remotest chance that Greek
pronunciation hasn't changed.
|
WRONG.
| Quote: |
This is a 'discussion' our young but all-knowing friend Agamemnon has had
several times, both here and elsewhere. People who know what they talk
about have rebutted him several times, but Agamemnon is incapable of
learning.
|
WRONG. Nobody has even remotely been able to refute any of the facts I
posted.
| Quote: |
Agamemnon lives in a dream-world, a world inhabited by the ancient heroes,
and still run by the Greek gods. Yes, he has stated that Turkey is harder
hit by earthquakes than Greece, because they worship Poseidon less in
Turkey than they do in Greece (sadly, Agamemnon hasn't answered my query
as to how
|
I never said anything of the kind.
| Quote: | many Scandinavians, living in an area largely free from any noteworthy
tremors, worship Agamemnon's fairies).
|
You are talking out of your arsehole.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gogu
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:05 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
TROLL ALERT !
Henrietta is back !
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html
Ï "Henry Hooray" <c2mipq402@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
news:3rs78kFkrf72U1@individual.net...
| Quote: | "Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:4356cdf5@nocnews001.allthesites.org...
All the vowels and consonants have changed their sound in Germanic
languages in the past 2000 years whereas in Greek they have remained
constant so do not consider English as a guide to Greek pronunciation.
Who told you that? Greek has changed a great deal in that time.
You are correct, there is of course not the remotest chance that Greek
pronunciation hasn't changed.
This is a 'discussion' our young but all-knowing friend Agamemnon has had
several times, both here and elsewhere. People who know what they talk
about have rebutted him several times, but Agamemnon is incapable of
learning.
Agamemnon lives in a dream-world, a world inhabited by the ancient heroes,
and still run by the Greek gods. Yes, he has stated that Turkey is harder
hit by earthquakes than Greece, because they worship Poseidon less in
Turkey than they do in Greece (sadly, Agamemnon hasn't answered my query
as to how many Scandinavians, living in an area largely free from any
noteworthy tremors, worship Agamemnon's fairies).
Henry. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Henry Hooray
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:51 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:99GdnZJWNfHeYcXeRVnysQ@pipex.net...
| Quote: |
"Henry Hooray" <c2mipq402@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rs78kFkrf72U1@individual.net...
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:4356cdf5@nocnews001.allthesites.org...
All the vowels and consonants have changed their sound in Germanic
languages in the past 2000 years whereas in Greek they have remained
constant so do not consider English as a guide to Greek pronunciation.
Who told you that? Greek has changed a great deal in that time.
You are correct, there is of course not the remotest chance that Greek
pronunciation hasn't changed.
WRONG.
|
Your schoolboy BIG LETTER SHOUTING does not make you right.
| Quote: | This is a 'discussion' our young but all-knowing friend Agamemnon has had
several times, both here and elsewhere. People who know what they talk
about have rebutted him several times, but Agamemnon is incapable of
learning.
WRONG. Nobody has even remotely been able to refute any of the facts I
posted.
|
Oh yes, they did. You were laughed at, Agamemnon, you were the laughing
stock amongst the real linguists.
| Quote: | Agamemnon lives in a dream-world, a world inhabited by the ancient
heroes, and still run by the Greek gods. Yes, he has stated that Turkey
is harder hit by earthquakes than Greece, because they worship Poseidon
less in Turkey than they do in Greece (sadly, Agamemnon hasn't answered
my query as to how
I never said anything of the kind.
|
Nothing of the kind, Agamemnon? Well, then let me refresh your memory;
here's a bit of what you wrote, in a response to choro-nik:
- > Agamemnonass, the quake in Greece was 5.2 on the Richter scale while the
- > one in Turkey was 7.3. There is a vast difference between
-
- > FYI, 5.5 is double the strength of 5.2, while 5.8 is four times the
- > strength of 5.2. Also don't forget that the quake in Turkey struck at a
-
-
- The one in Greece lasted longer so the buildings had more time to crack.
-
- > time when everybody was asleep and struck a densely populated area.
-
- And Athens isn't a densely populated area is it.
-
- > Poseidon has nothing to do with it. If Gods have anything to do with
- > mother nature, then I am I don't know what.
-
- Poseidon protected Greece more than he did Turkey.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.greek/browse_frm/thread/52bbb45b4241bac0/64c8a86bfd63bf7b?lnk=st&q=turkey+earthquake+poseidon+author:agamemnon&rnum=1&hl=en#64c8a86bfd63bf7b
So yes, you most certainly did link Poseidon with earthquakes. Once again
you have been proven wrong.
| Quote: | many Scandinavians, living in an area largely free from any noteworthy
tremors, worship Agamemnon's fairies).
You are talking out of your arsehole.
|
Bravo, Agamemnon, you know how to argue your lost cause. I presume you are
not going to answer my simple question, are you, Agamemnon.
As choro-nik said at the time:
"Anyway, don't expect a response from Agamemnon. He is too busy
constructing, of should I say handcrafting, solid wooden block Stradivari
violins."
Henry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
Agamemnon wrote:
| Quote: | jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129828450.974490.52910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CDB wrote:
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:LpmdnZ9WwuHlqMjeRVnysw@pipex.net...
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:msa5f.6983$5I2.25266@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:voCdnd617bmcssjeRVnysA@pipex.net...
[...]
The modern Greek pronunciation is the same as the ancinet.
Funny old Greeks, inventing all those different ways of writing
"ee".
Funny old Canadians, not being able to hear the difference.
http://www.bsw.org/?l=72081&a=Art06.html
Thank you. An interesting account. I note that the author agrees
with me that there are rather a lot of ways of spelling "ee" (section
153" "...the Greeks gave to several letters the sound of 'I'," and
section 157). He also seems to think there have been sound changes
from time to time (section 160).
And in fact many of the sound changes are from the "Erasmian"
pronunciation to the modern one. Caragounis
|
is
| Quote: | just saying they happened
earlier than many non-Greek scholars think.
WRONG. He is saying that there was never an Erasmian pronunciation period,
otherwise the Greek language would have been completely unpronounceable.
|
I didn't say there was an Erasmian pronunciation period. I said many
of the changes were from "Erasmian" pronunciations. You probably
missed this excerpt that I quoted in another post: "Thus, the
pronunciation
of AI tended towards and finally became identical with that of E, that
of EI, OI, and UI with I, while with U increasingly moving towards I,
the sound of U came to be represented by OU 28. This process, as the
evidence of the inscriptions indicates, was, for the most part,
initiated already in pre-classical antiquity." And other examples.
| Quote: | Try pronouncing Buzdzdantioi insted of Buzzantioi.
|
I think you mean Vizzantioi. I'm not for a minute defending the "zd"
idea.
| Quote: | Try pronouncing bdomos instead of vdhomos.
|
It's too bad Caragounis's article doesn't say how "pteron" was
pronounced. Whatever the pronunciation was, "bdomos" could have been
pronounced with the voiced version of the initial sound--in the
earliest times.
| Quote: | Try pronouncing ekgdemia instead of ekghdhmia.
|
I can't say either "ekgdemia" or "ekghdhemia".
Try saying "Kpala". I can't do it, but people do every day. I *think*
the k and p are articulated simultaneously.
| Quote: | If anyone
had used these un-Greek proncoiaiton they would have degenerated
immediately, therefore Greek can NEVER have been pronounced that way.
.... |
| Quote: | Greek has never changed its pronunciation because the Minoan Greeks were the
so-called proto-Indo-European and proto-Indo-European is only pronounceable
if it is pronounced like modern Greek.
.... |
I hope I wasn't mistaken in taking you seriously despite the above.
--
Jerry Friedman |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Agamemnon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
"Henry Hooray" <c2mipq402@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rshc1Fkvka5U1@individual.net...
| Quote: | "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:99GdnZJWNfHeYcXeRVnysQ@pipex.net...
"Henry Hooray" <c2mipq402@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rs78kFkrf72U1@individual.net...
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:4356cdf5@nocnews001.allthesites.org...
All the vowels and consonants have changed their sound in Germanic
languages in the past 2000 years whereas in Greek they have remained
constant so do not consider English as a guide to Greek pronunciation.
Who told you that? Greek has changed a great deal in that time.
You are correct, there is of course not the remotest chance that Greek
pronunciation hasn't changed.
WRONG.
Your schoolboy BIG LETTER SHOUTING does not make you right.
|
IDOT !
| Quote: |
This is a 'discussion' our young but all-knowing friend Agamemnon has
had several times, both here and elsewhere. People who know what they
talk about have rebutted him several times, but Agamemnon is incapable
of learning.
WRONG. Nobody has even remotely been able to refute any of the facts I
posted.
Oh yes, they did. You were laughed at, Agamemnon, you were the laughing
stock amongst the real linguists.
|
WRONG. They were the ones being laughed at when I blew them all down.
| Quote: |
Agamemnon lives in a dream-world, a world inhabited by the ancient
heroes, and still run by the Greek gods. Yes, he has stated that Turkey
is harder hit by earthquakes than Greece, because they worship Poseidon
less in Turkey than they do in Greece (sadly, Agamemnon hasn't answered
my query as to how
I never said anything of the kind.
Nothing of the kind, Agamemnon? Well, then let me refresh your memory;
here's a bit of what you wrote, in a response to choro-nik:
|
Nothing of the kind.
| Quote: |
- > Agamemnonass, the quake in Greece was 5.2 on the Richter scale while
the
- > one in Turkey was 7.3. There is a vast difference between
-
- > FYI, 5.5 is double the strength of 5.2, while 5.8 is four times the
- > strength of 5.2. Also don't forget that the quake in Turkey struck at
a
-
-
- The one in Greece lasted longer so the buildings had more time to crack.
-
- > time when everybody was asleep and struck a densely populated area.
-
- And Athens isn't a densely populated area is it.
-
- > Poseidon has nothing to do with it. If Gods have anything to do with
- > mother nature, then I am I don't know what.
-
- Poseidon protected Greece more than he did Turkey.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.greek/browse_frm/thread/52bbb45b4241bac0/64c8a86bfd63bf7b?lnk=st&q=turkey+earthquake+poseidon+author:agamemnon&rnum=1&hl=en#64c8a86bfd63bf7b
So yes, you most certainly did link Poseidon with earthquakes. Once again
you have been proven wrong.
|
BULLSHIT. It is nothing like you describe. I was stating point of fact.
Poseidon the God of Earthquakes protected Greece more than Turkey. I said
nothing about him being worshiped in either Greece or Turkey you dissembling
piece of excrement..
| Quote: |
many Scandinavians, living in an area largely free from any noteworthy
tremors, worship Agamemnon's fairies).
You are talking out of your arsehole.
Bravo, Agamemnon, you know how to argue your lost cause. I presume you are
not going to answer my simple question, are you, Agamemnon.
|
IDIOT !
| Quote: |
As choro-nik said at the time:
"Anyway, don't expect a response from Agamemnon. He is too busy
constructing, of should I say handcrafting, solid wooden block Stradivari
violins."
Henry.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Agamemnon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129912199.570772.72130@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Agamemnon wrote:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129828450.974490.52910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CDB wrote:
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:LpmdnZ9WwuHlqMjeRVnysw@pipex.net...
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:msa5f.6983$5I2.25266@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:voCdnd617bmcssjeRVnysA@pipex.net...
[...]
The modern Greek pronunciation is the same as the ancinet.
Funny old Greeks, inventing all those different ways of writing
"ee".
Funny old Canadians, not being able to hear the difference.
http://www.bsw.org/?l=72081&a=Art06.html
Thank you. An interesting account. I note that the author agrees
with me that there are rather a lot of ways of spelling "ee" (section
153" "...the Greeks gave to several letters the sound of 'I'," and
section 157). He also seems to think there have been sound changes
from time to time (section 160).
And in fact many of the sound changes are from the "Erasmian"
pronunciation to the modern one. Caragounis
is
just saying they happened
earlier than many non-Greek scholars think.
WRONG. He is saying that there was never an Erasmian pronunciation
period,
otherwise the Greek language would have been completely unpronounceable.
I didn't say there was an Erasmian pronunciation period. I said many
of the changes were from "Erasmian" pronunciations. You probably
missed this excerpt that I quoted in another post: "Thus, the
pronunciation
of AI tended towards and finally became identical with that of E, that
of EI, OI, and UI with I, while with U increasingly moving towards I,
the sound of U came to be represented by OU 28. This process, as the
evidence of the inscriptions indicates, was, for the most part,
initiated already in pre-classical antiquity." And other examples.
Try pronouncing Buzdzdantioi insted of Buzzantioi.
I think you mean Vizzantioi. I'm not for a minute defending the "zd"
idea.
Try pronouncing bdomos instead of vdhomos.
It's too bad Caragounis's article doesn't say how "pteron" was
pronounced. Whatever the pronunciation was, "bdomos" could have been
|
B and D are both voiced and by definition all voiced consonants need to be
followed by a vowel in order to be sounded.
P and T as both voiceless so do not need and intermediate vowel to be
sounded so the ancient Greeks would have had no problem with pteron which in
any case was easier to pronounce as fteron.
| Quote: | pronounced with the voiced version of the initial sound--in the
earliest times.
|
It is highly unlikely that such a pronunciation could have endured for more
than a few months let alone years. The fact that there is no vowel between b
and d in bdomos shows that b cannot have been voiced.
| Quote: |
Try pronouncing ekgdemia instead of ekghdhmia.
I can't say either "ekgdemia" or "ekghdhemia"
|
That's because you don't know what the Greek letter gamma is supposed to
sound like. gh represents gamma and dh represents delta.
..
| Quote: |
Try saying "Kpala". I can't do it, but people do every day. I *think*
|
What does the Klingon word Kapla (to victory or something) have to do with
Greek ?
| Quote: | the k and p are articulated simultaneously.
|
Not in Star Trek The Search for Spock they're not.
| Quote: |
If anyone
had used these un-Greek proncoiaiton they would have degenerated
immediately, therefore Greek can NEVER have been pronounced that way.
...
Greek has never changed its pronunciation because the Minoan Greeks were
the
so-called proto-Indo-European and proto-Indo-European is only
pronounceable
if it is pronounced like modern Greek.
...
I hope I wasn't mistaken in taking you seriously despite the above.
|
Get an education and listed to other Europe languages being spoken by their
native speakers and stop assuming that the proto-Indo-Europeans spoke in a
home counties English accent, just because Anglos-Saxons can't be arsed to
pronounce other people languages properly.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:42 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
Agamemnon wrote:
| Quote: | jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129912199.570772.72130@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Agamemnon wrote:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129828450.974490.52910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CDB wrote:
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:LpmdnZ9WwuHlqMjeRVnysw@pipex.net...
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:msa5f.6983$5I2.25266@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:voCdnd617bmcssjeRVnysA@pipex.net...
[...]
The modern Greek pronunciation is the same as the ancinet.
Funny old Greeks, inventing all those different ways of writing
"ee".
Funny old Canadians, not being able to hear the difference.
http://www.bsw.org/?l=72081&a=Art06.html
Thank you. An interesting account. I note that the author agrees
with me that there are rather a lot of ways of spelling "ee" (section
153" "...the Greeks gave to several letters the sound of 'I'," and
section 157). He also seems to think there have been sound changes
from time to time (section 160).
And in fact many of the sound changes are from the "Erasmian"
pronunciation to the modern one. Caragounis
is
just saying they happened
earlier than many non-Greek scholars think.
WRONG. He is saying that there was never an Erasmian pronunciation
period,
otherwise the Greek language would have been completely unpronounceable.
I didn't say there was an Erasmian pronunciation period. I said many
of the changes were from "Erasmian" pronunciations. You probably
missed this excerpt that I quoted in another post: "Thus, the
pronunciation
of AI tended towards and finally became identical with that of E, that
of EI, OI, and UI with I, while with U increasingly moving towards I,
the sound of U came to be represented by OU 28. This process, as the
evidence of the inscriptions indicates, was, for the most part,
initiated already in pre-classical antiquity." And other examples.
Try pronouncing Buzdzdantioi insted of Buzzantioi.
I think you mean Vizzantioi. I'm not for a minute defending the "zd"
idea.
Try pronouncing bdomos instead of vdhomos.
It's too bad Caragounis's article doesn't say how "pteron" was
pronounced. Whatever the pronunciation was, "bdomos" could have been
B and D are both voiced and by definition all voiced consonants need to be
followed by a vowel in order to be sounded.
P and T as both voiceless so do not need and intermediate vowel to be
sounded so the ancient Greeks would have had no problem with pteron which in
any case was easier to pronounce as fteron.
pronounced with the voiced version of the initial sound--in the
earliest times.
It is highly unlikely that such a pronunciation could have endured for more
than a few months let alone years. The fact that there is no vowel between b
and d in bdomos shows that b cannot have been voiced.
Try pronouncing ekgdemia instead of ekghdhmia.
I can't say either "ekgdemia" or "ekghdhemia"
That's because you don't know what the Greek letter gamma is supposed to
sound like.
|
That is so true.
| Quote: | gh represents gamma and dh represents delta.
|
I did know that.
| Quote: | Try saying "Kpala". I can't do it, but people do every day. I *think*
What does the Klingon word Kapla (to victory or something) have to do with
Greek ?
the k and p are articulated simultaneously.
Not in Star Trek The Search for Spock they're not.
.... |
Kpala is the name of a Niger-Congo language spoken in the Democratic
Republic of the Congo and of a dialect of Kresh, spoken in the Sudan
<http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=kpl>. Speaking of
voiced consonants, people also seem to be able to say Gbarnga
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gbarnga>. What this has to do with Greek
is that if people can say Gbarnga, ancient Greeks may have been able to
say "bdomos" and "ekgdemia" in ways that you've never imagined.
| Quote: | Greek has never changed its pronunciation because the Minoan Greeks were
the
so-called proto-Indo-European and proto-Indo-European is only
pronounceable
if it is pronounced like modern Greek.
...
I hope I wasn't mistaken in taking you seriously despite the above.
Get an education and listed to other Europe languages being spoken by their
native speakers and stop assuming that the proto-Indo-Europeans spoke in a
home counties English accent,
|
I like that part.
| Quote: | just because Anglos-Saxons can't be arsed to
pronounce other people languages properly.
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--
Jerry Friedman |
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Agamemnon
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:14 am
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
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<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129916552.458333.150080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Agamemnon wrote:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129912199.570772.72130@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Agamemnon wrote:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129828450.974490.52910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CDB wrote:
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:LpmdnZ9WwuHlqMjeRVnysw@pipex.net...
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:msa5f.6983$5I2.25266@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:voCdnd617bmcssjeRVnysA@pipex.net...
[...]
The modern Greek pronunciation is the same as the ancinet.
Funny old Greeks, inventing all those different ways of writing
"ee".
Funny old Canadians, not being able to hear the difference.
http://www.bsw.org/?l=72081&a=Art06.html
Thank you. An interesting account. I note that the author agrees
with me that there are rather a lot of ways of spelling "ee"
(section
153" "...the Greeks gave to several letters the sound of 'I'," and
section 157). He also seems to think there have been sound changes
from time to time (section 160).
And in fact many of the sound changes are from the "Erasmian"
pronunciation to the modern one. Caragounis
is
just saying they happened
earlier than many non-Greek scholars think.
WRONG. He is saying that there was never an Erasmian pronunciation
period,
otherwise the Greek language would have been completely
unpronounceable.
I didn't say there was an Erasmian pronunciation period. I said many
of the changes were from "Erasmian" pronunciations. You probably
missed this excerpt that I quoted in another post: "Thus, the
pronunciation
of AI tended towards and finally became identical with that of E, that
of EI, OI, and UI with I, while with U increasingly moving towards I,
the sound of U came to be represented by OU 28. This process, as the
evidence of the inscriptions indicates, was, for the most part,
initiated already in pre-classical antiquity." And other examples.
Try pronouncing Buzdzdantioi insted of Buzzantioi.
I think you mean Vizzantioi. I'm not for a minute defending the "zd"
idea.
Try pronouncing bdomos instead of vdhomos.
It's too bad Caragounis's article doesn't say how "pteron" was
pronounced. Whatever the pronunciation was, "bdomos" could have been
B and D are both voiced and by definition all voiced consonants need to
be
followed by a vowel in order to be sounded.
P and T as both voiceless so do not need and intermediate vowel to be
sounded so the ancient Greeks would have had no problem with pteron which
in
any case was easier to pronounce as fteron.
pronounced with the voiced version of the initial sound--in the
earliest times.
It is highly unlikely that such a pronunciation could have endured for
more
than a few months let alone years. The fact that there is no vowel
between b
and d in bdomos shows that b cannot have been voiced.
Try pronouncing ekgdemia instead of ekghdhmia.
I can't say either "ekgdemia" or "ekghdhemia"
That's because you don't know what the Greek letter gamma is supposed to
sound like.
That is so true.
gh represents gamma and dh represents delta.
I did know that.
Try saying "Kpala". I can't do it, but people do every day. I *think*
What does the Klingon word Kapla (to victory or something) have to do
with
Greek ?
the k and p are articulated simultaneously.
Not in Star Trek The Search for Spock they're not.
...
Kpala is the name of a Niger-Congo language spoken in the Democratic
Republic of the Congo and of a dialect of Kresh, spoken in the Sudan
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=kpl>. Speaking of
voiced consonants, people also seem to be able to say Gbarnga
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gbarnga>. What this has to do with Greek
is that if people can say Gbarnga, ancient Greeks may have been able to
say "bdomos" and "ekgdemia" in ways that you've never imagined.
|
How do you know its pronounced Gbamga and not Ghvamgha like in Greek ?
Why should I believe any English linguist when the English have a proven
track record of mispronouncing other languages and not making the effort to
speak Greek properly.
| Quote: |
Greek has never changed its pronunciation because the Minoan Greeks
were
the
so-called proto-Indo-European and proto-Indo-European is only
pronounceable
if it is pronounced like modern Greek.
...
I hope I wasn't mistaken in taking you seriously despite the above.
Get an education and listed to other Europe languages being spoken by
their
native speakers and stop assuming that the proto-Indo-Europeans spoke in
a
home counties English accent,
I like that part.
just because Anglos-Saxons can't be arsed to
pronounce other people languages properly.
--
Jerry Friedman
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:04 am
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
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|
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Agamemnon wrote:
[...]
Get an education and listed to other Europe languages being spoken
by their native speakers and stop assuming that the
proto-Indo-Europeans spoke in a home counties English accent,
I like that part.
|
It's the way I've always heard you, Jerry. I can't work out why
you're still conversing with the chap, but, by the nine Muses! some
winged words have escaped the barrier of your teeth. In that really
neat British accent of yours -- say, I guess you knew Laurence
Olivier _personally_.
--
Mike. |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:49 am
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
Agamemnon wrote:
[...]
Get an education and listed to other Europe languages being spoken
by their native speakers and stop assuming that the
proto-Indo-Europeans spoke in a home counties English accent,
I like that part.
It's the way I've always heard you, Jerry. I can't work out why
you're still conversing with the chap,
|
There may be a curse on my house.
| Quote: | but, by the nine Muses! some
winged words have escaped the barrier of your teeth. In that really
neat British accent of yours -- say, I guess you knew Laurence
Olivier _personally_.
|
I'm quite chuffed, really, that you have been able to realise some
enjoyment from my cut-glass typing.
--
Jerry Friedman |
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choro-nik
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
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|
Hey, if you are referring to my posting, let me just point out that yours is
the most confused posting I have ever seen todate.
You are like the proverbial communist who also subscribed to the Nazi
ideology or the other way round.
Your mind must be absolutely like minestrone soup.
--
choro-nik
*******
"Splicer1X" <invictoe4@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129823721.628724.291200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Please don't pay attention to the above posting fool.He is a racist
bitchslapped victim of his lord and master GOGU, the Greek engneer and
builder of high income condos who literally owns this foolish
Anglo/Turkish loser.BTW this loser's claim to fame is his "limo
service: check this URL:Meet the servile Turkish queer and wellknown
homosexual child molester*, Seanie Ruttledge currently posting
under the following usernames: Big Butch Floppie Bwoy, Walter
Constantin Gogu Costica Brincoveanu Mitty, Pants Awry, Drexl's GAY
Escort Agency of NYC, Moo Moo MhuttsAss, Theodore HarrinGAY Mavroidis.
Costas Spyronikolapapahatziharambosdimitropoulakis,Sean Psologliftis,
Sean Poutsofagos
PICTURE
http://www.1cl.co.uk/London_Chaufeurs.htm
ADDRESS
1st Class London Chauffeurs
1 The Glade, Bickley, Bromley, Kent
London, England
BR1 2QG
CONTACT INFO
Tel London 020 8466 1723 (int + 44 20 8466 1723)
After Hours Cellphone 07767 771850
Fax 0870 134 3898
Chauffers.Lon...@1cl.co.uk
theodore.mavroidis@loaning.co.uk wrote:
*Is his own child named Chantal safe from this predatory
sexual terkk
choro-nik wrote:
| Quote: | Y is not a f**ckin' F, re Praxandro, re Ksidinopaidi.
In Inglese or English (not Ingliss or don't you have the equivalent if the
SH as in SHIT (PARDON!!) it is the equivalent of the letter V at least
phonetically if not frenetically.
BTW, let's hear you say Fiss & Tsips....
XiXiXi or HeHeHe in Ingliss!!! Si, si. Mouchas grazias! How did that
song so re Ksidinopaidi?
Did it go Mpezame moucho? Much, much moucho, re mouchompexti....
Ma ali8ia? Or was it Mpesame moucho and you took it for "Mpazoume moucho"?
--
choro-nik
*******
"Praxandros-21" <christes00k@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ICi5f.11295$1X1.7735@fe12.lga...
EUQUFRWN uV LOXOFRWN
EUQUS --=(STREHT , IN INGKLISS)- OPPOSIT --- LOXOS (SLANTET)
FRWN FRHN ---=(MAHNTET, IN INGKLISS)
PROONAOUNST --- EFQIFRON
EFTHY = STRAIGHT VS SLANDED
FRON = MINDED
WHY DON'T YOU GUYS USE THE GREEK ALPHABET ,... ITS BEEN CONCEIVED TO BE
ACRO-PHONIC SINCE ITS INCEPTION
AND HAD NEVER CHANGED.....EVER
TZHHHZAS KKRAAAHS !!!!!!
PRAX-21
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:h%65f.6936$5I2.24927@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"qquito" <qquito@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129619081.928768.75390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hell, All:
Can anyone tell how the word "Euthyphro" in Plato's dialogue thus
titled is pronounced? I am talking about the Euthypro Dilemma
recorded
in the dialogue.
All the interesting discussion about ancient and modern Greek
pronunciations to one side, I think it's the modern English
pronunciation you want. I suggest "YOUTH-i-fro". I admit I don't
recall ever hearing the name pronounced but, if it's connected with
"euthúphron" (right-minded), then, even though the accent in Greek was
placed as you see, the upsilon is short (according to my big _Liddell
and Scott_): which means the word would have gone from Latin into
English with the stress* on the first syllable.
The other possibility is "you-THI-fro", based on taking the Greek
tonal accent as a stress mark. I should think either version would be
accepted without comment. Oh, and the "th" would probably be unvoiced
in the first version, especially by North Americans, and voiced in the
second, as in "this".
_________________
*Note distinction between accent and stress. Ancient Greek was
apparently a language that marked syllables by length and tone more
than by stress. |
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Henry Hooray
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
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"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:ooednVlF1tAOhsTeRVnyhg@pipex.net...
| Quote: |
"Henry Hooray" <c2mipq402@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rshc1Fkvka5U1@individual.net...
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:99GdnZJWNfHeYcXeRVnysQ@pipex.net...
"Henry Hooray" <c2mipq402@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rs78kFkrf72U1@individual.net...
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:4356cdf5@nocnews001.allthesites.org...
All the vowels and consonants have changed their sound in Germanic
languages in the past 2000 years whereas in Greek they have remained
constant so do not consider English as a guide to Greek
pronunciation.
Who told you that? Greek has changed a great deal in that time.
You are correct, there is of course not the remotest chance that Greek
pronunciation hasn't changed.
WRONG.
Your schoolboy BIG LETTER SHOUTING does not make you right.
IDOT !
|
Bravo, Agamemnon.
| Quote: | This is a 'discussion' our young but all-knowing friend Agamemnon has
had several times, both here and elsewhere. People who know what they
talk about have rebutted him several times, but Agamemnon is incapable
of learning.
WRONG. Nobody has even remotely been able to refute any of the facts I
posted.
Oh yes, they did. You were laughed at, Agamemnon, you were the laughing
stock amongst the real linguists.
WRONG. They were the ones being laughed at when I blew them all down.
|
This could conceivably be construed as being correct: maybe you were
laughing at all of them, while they were all laughing at you.
| Quote: | Agamemnon lives in a dream-world, a world inhabited by the ancient
heroes, and still run by the Greek gods. Yes, he has stated that Turkey
is harder hit by earthquakes than Greece, because they worship Poseidon
less in Turkey than they do in Greece (sadly, Agamemnon hasn't answered
my query as to how
I never said anything of the kind.
Nothing of the kind, Agamemnon? Well, then let me refresh your memory;
here's a bit of what you wrote, in a response to choro-nik:
Nothing of the kind.
|
But I have just shown it to you, my friend. You even admit it in your next
writing - so why are you still in denial?
| Quote: | - > Agamemnonass, the quake in Greece was 5.2 on the Richter scale while
the
- > one in Turkey was 7.3. There is a vast difference between
-
- > FYI, 5.5 is double the strength of 5.2, while 5.8 is four times the
- > strength of 5.2. Also don't forget that the quake in Turkey struck
at a
-
-
- The one in Greece lasted longer so the buildings had more time to
crack.
-
- > time when everybody was asleep and struck a densely populated area.
-
- And Athens isn't a densely populated area is it.
-
- > Poseidon has nothing to do with it. If Gods have anything to do with
- > mother nature, then I am I don't know what.
-
- Poseidon protected Greece more than he did Turkey.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.greek/browse_frm/thread/52bbb45b4241bac0/64c8a86bfd63bf7b?lnk=st&q=turkey+earthquake+poseidon+author:agamemnon&rnum=1&hl=en#64c8a86bfd63bf7b
So yes, you most certainly did link Poseidon with earthquakes. Once again
you have been proven wrong.
BULLSHIT. It is nothing like you describe. I was stating point of fact.
Poseidon the God of Earthquakes protected Greece more than Turkey. I said
nothing about him being worshiped in either Greece or Turkey you
dissembling piece of excrement..
|
It is your sweet and naive belief in Poseidon and your somewhat unscientific
approach to the causes of earthquakes that I pointed out in the first place.
The same sort of unscientific approach you use when you try to prove your
ridiculous assertion that Greek pronunciation (unlike any other in the
world) has not changed at all for thousand of years, and by which you have
disqualified yourself from any chance of being taken seriously.
| Quote: | many Scandinavians, living in an area largely free from any noteworthy
tremors, worship Agamemnon's fairies).
You are talking out of your arsehole.
Bravo, Agamemnon, you know how to argue your lost cause. I presume you
are not going to answer my simple question, are you, Agamemnon.
IDIOT !
|
Bravo, Agamemnon.
| Quote: | As choro-nik said at the time:
"Anyway, don't expect a response from Agamemnon. He is too busy
constructing, of should I say handcrafting, solid wooden block Stradivari
violins."
|
Henry. |
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Walter Constantin Gogu Co
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Pronounce "Euthyphro"? |
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THE NAZI TROLL Anti-Semite Gogu is never away
How could he ever be BACK ?
PWNT ! |
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