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steve marchant
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:50 am
Post subject: obsessive or obsessional? |
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What's the difference?
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Tedfriet
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:22 pm
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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steve marchant wrote:
| Quote: | What's the difference?
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Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy completely;to
haunt
Obsessional is the adjective from the noun 'obsession':a persistent idea or
impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness.
So IMHO its use depends on context.
--
Cheers
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
A little learning is a dang'rous thing.;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope |
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Tedfriet
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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Tedfriet wrote:
| Quote: | steve marchant wrote:
What's the difference?
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to haunt
That should be 'adjective' of course. A typo. |
--
Cheers
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
A little learning is a dang'rous thing.;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope
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Django Cat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:15:28 +0200, Tedfriet <friet@quicknet.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | Tedfriet wrote:
steve marchant wrote:
What's the difference?
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to haunt
That should be 'adjective' of course. A typo.
|
Not 'noun' then? How about trying "obsessive is the adjective from the
verb 'obsess'?"
DC |
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Tedfriet
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:47 am
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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Django Cat wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:15:28 +0200, Tedfriet <friet@quicknet.nl
wrote:
Tedfriet wrote:
steve marchant wrote:
What's the difference?
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to haunt
That should be 'adjective' of course. A typo.
Not 'noun' then? How about trying "obsessive is the adjective from
the verb 'obsess'?"
DC
|
You're absolutely right. I don't where I had my brains when writing the
above answer to the OP. I really made a mess of it. Maybe it was too early
in the morning or some other weak excuse.
--
Cheers
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
A little learning is a dang'rous thing.;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope |
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meirman
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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In alt.english.usage on Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:22:33 +0200 "Tedfriet"
<friet@quicknet.nl> posted:
| Quote: | steve marchant wrote:
What's the difference?
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy completely;to
|
I believe adjectiev is a suburb of kiev.
| Quote: | haunt
Obsessional is the adjective from the noun 'obsession':a persistent idea or
impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness.
So IMHO its use depends on context.
|
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years |
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steve marchant
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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"Tedfriet" <friet@quicknet.nl> wrote in message
news:743aa$414d5be8$d47fd446$6291@news.multikabel.nl...
| Quote: | Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to
haunt
Obsessional is the adjective from the noun 'obsession':a persistent idea
or
impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness.
That is more or less what my dictionary says, but I'm still unable to |
distinguish between the two ideas.
One or two examples of use would be appreciated. |
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Tedfriet
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:48 pm
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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meirman wrote:
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:22:33 +0200 "Tedfriet"
friet@quicknet.nl> posted:
steve marchant wrote:
What's the difference?
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to
I believe adjectiev is a suburb of kiev.
|
Nice.
| Quote: | s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years
|
--
Cheers
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
A little learning is a dang'rous thing.;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope |
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steve marchant
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iRF3d.39863$U04.1913@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| Quote: |
"steve marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:cimqh2$d2c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Tedfriet" <friet@quicknet.nl> wrote in message
news:743aa$414d5be8$d47fd446$6291@news.multikabel.nl...
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to
haunt
Obsessional is the adjective from the noun 'obsession':a persistent
idea
or
impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness.
That is more or less what my dictionary says, but I'm still unable to
distinguish between the two ideas.
One or two examples of use would be appreciated.
"Obsessive" seems to be an ordinary layman's term; "obsessional" seems to
be
a word a psychiatrist might use. Obsessive behaviour is just a bit odd;
obsessional behaviour probably needs therapy. But I'm not certain about
this.
Alan Jones
My dictionary confirms Tedfriet's comment that obsessive is an adjective |
associated with the verb obsess; obsessional is an adjective associated with
the noun obsession. So I'm now wondering if the following are valid:
Obsessive = causing obsession
Obsessional = having an obsession
????? |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:04 am
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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"steve marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:cimqh2$d2c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
| Quote: |
"Tedfriet" <friet@quicknet.nl> wrote in message
news:743aa$414d5be8$d47fd446$6291@news.multikabel.nl...
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to
haunt
Obsessional is the adjective from the noun 'obsession':a persistent idea
or
impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness.
That is more or less what my dictionary says, but I'm still unable to
distinguish between the two ideas.
One or two examples of use would be appreciated.
|
"Obsessive" seems to be an ordinary layman's term; "obsessional" seems to be
a word a psychiatrist might use. Obsessive behaviour is just a bit odd;
obsessional behaviour probably needs therapy. But I'm not certain about
this.
Alan Jones |
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Joanne Marinelli
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:08 am
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iRF3d.39863$U04.1913@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| Quote: |
"steve marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:cimqh2$d2c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Tedfriet" <friet@quicknet.nl> wrote in message
news:743aa$414d5be8$d47fd446$6291@news.multikabel.nl...
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to
haunt
Obsessional is the adjective from the noun 'obsession':a persistent
idea
or
impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness.
That is more or less what my dictionary says, but I'm still unable to
distinguish between the two ideas.
One or two examples of use would be appreciated.
"Obsessive" seems to be an ordinary layman's term; "obsessional" seems to
be
a word a psychiatrist might use. Obsessive behaviour is just a bit odd;
obsessional behaviour probably needs therapy. But I'm not certain about
this.
Alan Jones
|
Obsessive behavior is fine, but I'd shy away from such statements as "John
exhibited obsessional tendencies..." It may be a fine distinction to make,
and why I am making it I cannot say, but I have rarely seen obsessional used
in such a context. One doesn't say "the obsessional man," and so forth. My
spell check in OE doesn't even recognize it, not that I dispute it as a
valid modifier, I do not. Let's just say it is a difficult modifier which
could easily become nonsensical.
Joanne |
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Odysseus
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:23 am
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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steve marchant wrote:
| Quote: |
My dictionary confirms Tedfriet's comment that obsessive is an adjective
associated with the verb obsess; obsessional is an adjective associated with
the noun obsession. So I'm now wondering if the following are valid:
Obsessive = causing obsession
Obsessional = having an obsession
?????
|
I'd say the difference in nuance rather inclines to:
Obsessive = manifesting or caused by obsession in a particular instance;
Obsessional = concerning or related to obsession in general.
--
Odysseus |
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:31 am
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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In alt.english.usage on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:27:44 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
| Quote: |
"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iRF3d.39863$U04.1913@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"steve marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:cimqh2$d2c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Tedfriet" <friet@quicknet.nl> wrote in message
news:743aa$414d5be8$d47fd446$6291@news.multikabel.nl...
Obsession is the adjectiev from the verb'obsess':to preoccupy
completely;to
haunt
Obsessional is the adjective from the noun 'obsession':a persistent
idea
or
impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness.
That is more or less what my dictionary says, but I'm still unable to
distinguish between the two ideas.
One or two examples of use would be appreciated.
"Obsessive" seems to be an ordinary layman's term; "obsessional" seems to
be
a word a psychiatrist might use. Obsessive behaviour is just a bit odd;
obsessional behaviour probably needs therapy. But I'm not certain about
this.
Alan Jones
My dictionary confirms Tedfriet's comment that obsessive is an adjective
associated with the verb obsess; obsessional is an adjective associated with
the noun obsession. So I'm now wondering if the following are valid:
Obsessive = causing obsession
Obsessional = having an obsession
?????
I don't see how you get these two lines. What you quote from your |
dictionary is very vague. "Associated" can mean just about anything.
I doubt they are equalities. As to the second, IIRC anything ending
in -al such as x-al means "of or related to X". Having an obsession
is one of several ways something could be related to an obsession.
As to the first one, maybe it can mean *causing* the obession, but
I've never heard it used that way. I have heard other uses, such as:
Obsessive behaviour, repeated behaviour that is the effect of an
obsession. For example, if I wash my hands 20 times a day, washing my
hands hasn't caused my obsession. It exemplifies my obsession. Or it
is my obsession. Or it's the visible part of my obsession. In
practice, I think one could say, washing one's hands is caused by an
obsession with washing one's hands, rather than the other way around.
An obsessive personality would be one that is prone to one obsession
or another. One who has such a personality would have one or more
obsessions much of the time. He could have a series of diffferent
obsessions, one at a time much of or all of the time, or he could have
one obsession all the time, or much of the time, and more than one
some of the time. Etc.
An obsessive relationship with someone would me that the other person
is related to the first person's obsession.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 03:23:24 GMT, Odysseus <odysseus1479-at@yahoo-dot.ca>
wrote:
| Quote: | steve marchant wrote:
My dictionary confirms Tedfriet's comment that obsessive is an adjective
associated with the verb obsess; obsessional is an adjective associated with
the noun obsession. So I'm now wondering if the following are valid:
Obsessive = causing obsession
Obsessional = having an obsession
?????
I'd say the difference in nuance rather inclines to:
Obsessive = manifesting or caused by obsession in a particular instance;
Obsessional = concerning or related to obsession in general.
|
That is how I would understand the difference.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
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steve marchant
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:42 pm
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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----- Original Message -----
From: "meirman" <meirman@invalid.com>
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional?
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:27:44 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
My dictionary confirms Tedfriet's comment that obsessive is an adjective
associated with the verb obsess; obsessional is an adjective associated
with
the noun obsession. So I'm now wondering if the following are valid:
Obsessive = causing obsession
Obsessional = having an obsession
?????
I don't see how you get these two lines. What you quote from your
dictionary is very vague. "Associated" can mean just about anything.
|
Collins dictionary separates obsess from obsession. Under obsess (transitive
verb) it lists the adjective obsessive without defining it. Obsessional
appears only under obsession (the noun). So I suggested that obsessive,
being associated with obsess, might imply causing rather than having or
experiencing ; and obsessional, being associated with obsession, might imply
having rather than causing.
| Quote: | I doubt they are equalities. As to the second, IIRC anything ending
in -al such as x-al means "of or related to X". Having an obsession
is one of several ways something could be related to an obsession.
As to the first one, maybe it can mean *causing* the obession, but
I've never heard it used that way. I have heard other uses, such as:
Obsessive behaviour, repeated behaviour that is the effect of an
obsession. For example, if I wash my hands 20 times a day, washing my
hands hasn't caused my obsession. It exemplifies my obsession. Or it
is my obsession. Or it's the visible part of my obsession. In
practice, I think one could say, washing one's hands is caused by an
obsession with washing one's hands, rather than the other way around.
|
What about: hand-washing is caused by a psychological
problem - an obsessive one maybe?
| Quote: |
An obsessive personality would be one that is prone to one obsession
or another. One who has such a personality would have one or more
obsessions much of the time. He could have a series of diffferent
obsessions, one at a time much of or all of the time, or he could have
one obsession all the time, or much of the time, and more than one
some of the time. Etc.
An obsessive relationship with someone would me that the other person
is related to the first person's obsession.
|
You hear a haunting piece of music, say, and then find yourself humming it
all day. You simply can't seem to get it out of your head. Couldn't you say
the music was obsessive?
BTW, I've just seen a definition showing obsessive as causal. The source is
unfamiliar to me and may be specious, but here it is anyway:
www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=obsessive
| Quote: |
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years |
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