Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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steve marchant wrote:
| Quote: | ----- Original Message -----
From: "meirman" <meirman@invalid.com
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional?
In alt.english.usage on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:27:44 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
My dictionary confirms Tedfriet's comment that obsessive is an
adjective associated with the verb obsess; obsessional is an
adjective associated with the noun obsession. So I'm now wondering
if the following are valid: Obsessive = causing obsession
Obsessional = having an obsession
?????
I don't see how you get these two lines. What you quote from your
dictionary is very vague. "Associated" can mean just about anything.
Collins dictionary separates obsess from obsession. Under obsess
(transitive verb) it lists the adjective obsessive without defining
it. Obsessional appears only under obsession (the noun). So I
suggested that obsessive, being associated with obsess, might imply
causing rather than having or experiencing ; and obsessional, being
associated with obsession, might imply having rather than causing.
I doubt they are equalities. As to the second, IIRC anything ending
in -al such as x-al means "of or related to X". Having an obsession
is one of several ways something could be related to an obsession.
As to the first one, maybe it can mean *causing* the obession, but
I've never heard it used that way. I have heard other uses, such as:
Obsessive behaviour, repeated behaviour that is the effect of an
obsession. For example, if I wash my hands 20 times a day, washing
my hands hasn't caused my obsession. It exemplifies my obsession.
Or it is my obsession. Or it's the visible part of my obsession. In
practice, I think one could say, washing one's hands is caused by an
obsession with washing one's hands, rather than the other way around.
What about: hand-washing is caused by a psychological
problem - an obsessive one maybe?
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Excessive hand-washing can be one of the symptoms of obsessive-compulsive
disorder (OCD). It appears that "obsessional disorder" or "primary
obsessional disorder" is used when referring to a subset of OCD patients who
have no compulsive symptoms. So, "obsessive" is used in the first term,
"obsessional" in the second. Make of that what you will.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:33 pm
Post subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional? |
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In alt.english.usage on Tue, 21 Sep 2004 19:42:38 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
| Quote: | ----- Original Message -----
From: "meirman" <meirman@invalid.com
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: obsessive or obsessional?
In alt.english.usage on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:27:44 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
My dictionary confirms Tedfriet's comment that obsessive is an adjective
associated with the verb obsess; obsessional is an adjective associated
with
the noun obsession. So I'm now wondering if the following are valid:
Obsessive = causing obsession
Obsessional = having an obsession
?????
I don't see how you get these two lines. What you quote from your
dictionary is very vague. "Associated" can mean just about anything.
Collins dictionary separates obsess from obsession. Under obsess (transitive
verb) it lists the adjective obsessive without defining it. Obsessional
appears only under obsession (the noun). So I suggested that obsessive,
being associated with obsess, might imply causing rather than having or
experiencing ; and obsessional, being associated with obsession, might imply
having rather than causing.
I doubt they are equalities. As to the second, IIRC anything ending
in -al such as x-al means "of or related to X". Having an obsession
is one of several ways something could be related to an obsession.
As to the first one, maybe it can mean *causing* the obession, but
I've never heard it used that way. I have heard other uses, such as:
Obsessive behaviour, repeated behaviour that is the effect of an
obsession. For example, if I wash my hands 20 times a day, washing my
hands hasn't caused my obsession. It exemplifies my obsession. Or it
is my obsession. Or it's the visible part of my obsession. In
practice, I think one could say, washing one's hands is caused by an
obsession with washing one's hands, rather than the other way around.
What about: hand-washing is caused by a psychological
problem - an obsessive one maybe?
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Makes sense also.
| Quote: | An obsessive personality would be one that is prone to one obsession
or another. One who has such a personality would have one or more
obsessions much of the time. He could have a series of diffferent
obsessions, one at a time much of or all of the time, or he could have
one obsession all the time, or much of the time, and more than one
some of the time. Etc.
An obsessive relationship with someone would me that the other person
is related to the first person's obsession.
You hear a haunting piece of music, say, and then find yourself humming it
all day. You simply can't seem to get it out of your head. Couldn't you say
the music was obsessive?
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Personally, I don't think so. You pointed out that obsess was
transitive. I've heard, I was obsessed by the music. Passive use of
a transitive verb. Rearranging the sentence gives, The music obsessed
me. In present tense, the music obsesses me or is obsessing me. I've
never heard those either, but the first sounds fine, and as to the
second, I think music could be obsessing more easily than obsessive.
It's people and probably some animals that become obsessive. (Maybe
the grass is obsessed with water? I guess that would be a metaphor or
an animalomorphism (a new word).
Well they probably wouldn't say it without a reason. Maybe it's used
this way among professionals. Or maybe it was and it's fading away
but they haven't declared it obsolete yet.
AHD4 has pretty much the same thing:
1. Of, relating to, characteristic of, or causing an obsession:
obsessive gambling.
2. Excessive in degree or nature: an obsessive need to win.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years |
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