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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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Laura F. Spira wrote:
[about Naugahyde]
| Quote: | I was going on the basis of the earlier post asking who Nora Hyde was.
I hope someone will post a definitive pronunciation soon - not that
I'm likely to have to say the word in the immediate future but it's
bugging me and I could do with crossing it off the list of irritating
little brain nags. (Life is one long senior moment these days: I
spent most of yesterday trying to remember the name of the clear
liquid that you can use for removing sticky residues that is not
methylated spirits but sounds similar, or so I thought. And this
morning in M&S I forgot my credit card PIN only minutes after
correctly using it in Boots - I could remember all the digits but not
the correct order.)
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Oo, that sort of thing might affect some accounting stuff. Naah ...
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
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Frances Kemmish
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
| Quote: | On 17 Oct 2005, Salvatore Volatile wrote
Troy Steadman wrote:
re: naugahyde
Ah! I'd never heard of it. Thanks.
You might not also know that Naugahyde was named after Naugatuck,
a redneck hill-town in the center of a snow belt in
central-western Connecticut just outside the
economically-depressed mill city of Waterbury.
Ah, damn; you've gone and spoiled that line about "Do you realise how
many naugas were killed to cover this sofa?"
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It hasn't stopped anyone in Connecticut from uttering it. |
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Frances Kemmish
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:12 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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Salvatore Volatile wrote:
| Quote: |
You might not also know that Naugahyde was named after Naugatuck, a
redneck hill-town in the center of a snow belt in central-western
Connecticut just outside the economically-depressed mill city of
Waterbury. It's something like a hilly version of the Midwest, only not
so far away. The people there even sound rather like Chicagoans, and I
don't mean that in a good way. You might not further know that I resided
in Naugatuck for a little less than a year, not so many years ago.
Naugatuck was once something of a center for the rubber industry. I'm
not sure how the current population is employed, although there's a Peter
Paul factory and a Wal*Mart. I understand that the locals call Naugatuck
"Naugie".
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Naugatuck has almost nothing in common with the Midwest, so far as I can
see. It's not flat for one thing.
| Quote: | There's also a Naugatuck River. It should not be confused with another
Connecticut river, the Saugatuck River. Isn't there also a Saugatuck out
in Michigan? If so, I think I may have spent a day there once, but that
was longer ago.
Fran Kemmish, who is as familiar with the state of Connecticut as anyone,
might disagree with me here, but I'd say that what I'd dub the Route 8
Corridor is the most depressing section of that state. Granted, I haven't
spent that much time in the eastern half of Connecticut.
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Some of the towns in the Naugatuck valley are sad places, since the
decline of the metal industries that made them wealthy in the nineteenth
century, but the scenery is breathtaking.
http://www.m5p.com/~george/tripSep1997/naugatuck-river.jpg
I did my MA thesis on water power in the Naugatuck valley, but based on
Seymour, a little further down the valley from the town of Naugatuck. In
the early 19th century, the area around Rimmon Falls (now the centre of
Seymour) was one of the best-known places in New England, after David
Humphries tried to set up a centre for sheep-rearing and
textile-processing there. The textile industry faded after the end of
the War of 1812, but the town became wealthy as a result of metalworking
industries., along with the rest of the valley towns.
Much of the industry had started to move out of the valley by the 1950s,
when the water of the Naugatuck was declared "unfit for any purpose",
because of the industrial waste from copper and brass working. The
disastrous floods of 1955 only speeded up the process of decline, by
destroying the last of the operating water wheels and turbines.
I haven't spent much time up there in the last five or six years, but
some efforts have been made to encourage development there. Most of the
old factories that I looked at for my thesis have now been turned into
condos, or torn down and replaced with shopping malls and box stores.
Rena's is still thriving though:
http://www.renas.com/
Fran
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:14 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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Martin Ambuhl wrote:
| Quote: | Lothar Frings wrote:
Hello,
I'm aware that song lyrics aren't exactly a reference
for good English, but anyway:
(1) From The Monkees - Randy Scouse Git (Alternate Title):
"Why don't you be like me?"
Shouldn't this be "Why aren't you like me?" It also
would match the rhythm and meter.
'Why do you'+<non-finite verb phrase> and
'Why don't you'+<non-finite verb phrase> are perferctly good English.
What basis should we have for rejecting this instance of a normal
English structure?
.... |
Possibly that "do" doesn't often be used as an auxiliary with "be",
except in the imperative (and in Ireland).
In this case, though, I hear "Why aren't you like me?" as asking for
the cause, and "Why don't you be like me?" as a suggestion or request
or demand, as "Why don't you...?" often is.
--
Jerry Friedman |
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Laura F. Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:25 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | Laura F. Spira wrote:
[about Naugahyde]
I was going on the basis of the earlier post asking who Nora Hyde was.
I hope someone will post a definitive pronunciation soon - not that
I'm likely to have to say the word in the immediate future but it's
bugging me and I could do with crossing it off the list of irritating
little brain nags. (Life is one long senior moment these days: I
spent most of yesterday trying to remember the name of the clear
liquid that you can use for removing sticky residues that is not
methylated spirits but sounds similar, or so I thought. And this
morning in M&S I forgot my credit card PIN only minutes after
correctly using it in Boots - I could remember all the digits but not
the correct order.)
Oo, that sort of thing might affect some accounting stuff. Naah ...
|
No worries, Skitt, I don't do accounting any more. I don't even teach
other people how to do it any more - I mostly teach them about how
misleading accounting can be.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Mike Barnes
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:29 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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In alt.usage.english, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Barnes <october2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
In alt.usage.english, Lothar Frings wrote:
Hello,
I'm aware that song lyrics aren't exactly a reference
for good English, but anyway:
(1) From The Monkees - Randy Scouse Git (Alternate Title):
"Why don't you be like me?"
Shouldn't this be "Why aren't you like me?"
"Why don't you be like me?" refers specifically to voluntary
features of the person, whereas "Why aren't you like me?" could
refer to things out of their control (age, background, etc). Also
many people say "Why don't you..." when what they really mean is "I
think you should...". So "Why don't you be like me?" emphasises the
element of choice, and might indicate a request.
Of course the whole idea of "being like" another person makes no
sense unless you're specific about the personal feature(s) referred
to.
The context both in the song and time (1967) make it pretty clear the
sort of personal features that are meant:
Why don't you cut your hair?
Why don't you live up there?
Why don't you do what I do,
See what I feel when I care?
Why don't you be like me?
Why don't you stop and see?
Why don't you hate who I hate,
Kill who I kill to be free.
|
So, the answer to the original question is obvious - it was "Why don't
you be like me?" so as to echo the other "Why don't you...?" lines.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:41 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:25:23 +0100, "Laura F. Spira"
<laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Skitt wrote:
Laura F. Spira wrote:
[about Naugahyde]
I was going on the basis of the earlier post asking who Nora Hyde was.
I hope someone will post a definitive pronunciation soon - not that
I'm likely to have to say the word in the immediate future but it's
bugging me and I could do with crossing it off the list of irritating
little brain nags. (Life is one long senior moment these days: I
spent most of yesterday trying to remember the name of the clear
liquid that you can use for removing sticky residues that is not
methylated spirits but sounds similar, or so I thought. And this
morning in M&S I forgot my credit card PIN only minutes after
correctly using it in Boots - I could remember all the digits but not
the correct order.)
Oo, that sort of thing might affect some accounting stuff. Naah ...
No worries, Skitt, I don't do accounting any more. I don't even teach
other people how to do it any more - I mostly teach them about how
misleading accounting can be.
|
Sounds like it's the time for one of my father's back-to-front adages.
There's no taste for accounting.
--
Robin
Hoddesdon, England |
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Peter Moylan
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:40 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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Troy Steadman turpitued:
| Quote: | Lothar Frings wrote:
What difference is there between dirty and unclean?
There is a difference. "Dirty" is usually "coated in dirt" whereas
unclean suggests "diseased".
|
For a long time I've been trying - without much success - to explain
this distinction to my wife. When I empty the compost bucket I usually
add a bit of dry garden dirt and swirl it around to soak up the
moisture and coax out the last few reluctant potato peelings. Obviously
this leaves some dirt marks, but it's good clean dirt, quite different
from decomposing vegetables. How do you explain this to someone who
doesn't have "good clean dirt" in their vocabulary?
--
Peter Moylan peter dot moylan at optusnet dot com dot au
http://www.pmoylan.org |
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Robert Lieblich
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:44 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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Troy Steadman wrote:
| Quote: |
Lothar Frings wrote:
Hello,
I'm aware that song lyrics aren't exactly a reference
for good English, but anyway:
(1) From The Monkees - Randy Scouse Git (Alternate Title):
"Why don't you be like me?"
This is a very bitter song and good English doesn't come into it. Who
the hell is Nora Hyde?
"Now they've darkened all the windows
And the seats are naugh-a-hyde.
|
[ ... ]
That's *Naugahide* -- the tanned skin of the nauga:
<http://www.snopes.com/business/market/nauga.asp>.
Hey, at least it's not Corfam.
--
Bob Lieblich
Whose pet nauga died of old age many years ago |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:04 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:u0v8l1151591m81j1jtebovptk4q99j8vl@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:32:05 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
However, it seems that "athlete's foot" and
"Desenex" are completely unknown terms in Germany.
I've never tried (rubbing) isopropyl alcohol on athlete's foot.
Whoa! You have take two separate thoughts and combined them. Desenex
and isopropyl alcohol are two different things with two entirely
different uses.
Desenex is a one-trick pony. But where is the confusion? Both Listerine
and alcohol are multipurpose (and cheaper) remedies.
Well, hell, an axe is a cheaper-yet remedy that provides a long-term
solution. Athlete's foot means open sores, and drenching open sores
with alcohol would make me dance...but not with joy.
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Maybe you don't get the early warning signs. I have only once or twice ever
had the oozing sores and cracked skin. That was when I looked for something
drastic--but less drastic than the axe, man.
| Quote: |
Do you suppose that is why
Desenex became so popular? I am assuming it doesn't sting upon
application.
No, it doesn't. That, to me, is a major benefit. I don't like curing
painful conditions with additional pain. That's just not the program
I have in mind.
|
If it don't hurt, it don't work (or something to that effect). You have to
burn the hell out of the sore. That works for me, anyway.
| Quote: |
I have an old, crumpled tube of Desenex in my Dopp kit. The only time
I seen to get athlete's foot is when I travel. They say you get it
from shower floors and such, but I seem to get it when I have to wear
wet shoes or wet socks for an extended period of time. If I'm at
home, I change shoes or socks if they get wet, but I sometimes don't
have enough changes on the road.
obAue: How about that use of "cheaper-yet"? Is that legal?
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Well, I like it, too. |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:05 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:32:05 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | This reminds me of an experience I had in Munich. After a few days of
walking around in wet shoes, I developed a case of athlete's foot; a
problem that can be quickly cleared up with a couple of applications
of Desenex ointment. However, it seems that "athlete's foot" and
"Desenex" are completely unknown terms in Germany.
I've never tried (rubbing) isopropyl alcohol on athlete's foot.
Whoa! You have take two separate thoughts and combined them. Desenex
and isopropyl alcohol are two different things with two entirely
different uses.
Desenex is a one-trick pony. But where is the confusion? Both Listerine
and alcohol are multipurpose (and cheaper) remedies.
|
Well, hell, an axe is a cheaper-yet remedy that provides a long-term
solution. Athlete's foot means open sores, and drenching open sores
with alcohol would make me dance...but not with joy.
| Quote: | However,
Listerine lists a generous percentage of alcohol*. I use listerine at the
first little tingle of an itch. Stings a bit. Do you suppose that is why
Desenex became so popular? I am assuming it doesn't sting upon
application.
|
No, it doesn't. That, to me, is a major benefit. I don't like curing
painful conditions with additional pain. That's just not the program
I have in mind.
I have an old, crumpled tube of Desenex in my Dopp kit. The only time
I seen to get athlete's foot is when I travel. They say you get it
from shower floors and such, but I seem to get it when I have to wear
wet shoes or wet socks for an extended period of time. If I'm at
home, I change shoes or socks if they get wet, but I sometimes don't
have enough changes on the road.
obAue: How about that use of "cheaper-yet"? Is that legal?
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:05 am
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tid7l1h8g9jtnhv2eekev4bk5kh69dsp59@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:03:39 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:05:46 +0100, "Laura F. Spira"
Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:11:06 +0100, "Laura F. Spira"
(Life is one long senior moment these days: I spent most of
yesterday trying to remember the name of the clear liquid that you can
use for removing sticky residues that is not methylated spirits but
sounds similar, or so I thought.
I don't know what mineral spirits are but it was surgical spirit that I
was thinking of.
This is a situation where regional terminology will keep us forever
apart. Surgical spirit is not a term used here, and - evidently -
mineral spirits is not a term used there.
Surgical spirit, according to a quick Googlepeek, is what we would
call denatured alcohol. Just about any US medicine cabinet has bottle
of this, and it's used to remove the sticky residue that adhesives
leave on the skin. When an adhesive dressing or Band-Aid (Elastoplast
to you) is removed, the adhesive residue is wiped off with denatured
alcohol. (Our medicine cabinet contains Isopropyl alcohol for this
purpose)
This reminds me of an experience I had in Munich. After a few days of
walking around in wet shoes, I developed a case of athlete's foot; a
problem that can be quickly cleared up with a couple of applications
of Desenex ointment. However, it seems that "athlete's foot" and
"Desenex" are completely unknown terms in Germany.
I've never tried (rubbing) isopropyl alcohol on athlete's foot.
Whoa! You have take two separate thoughts and combined them. Desenex
and isopropyl alcohol are two different things with two entirely
different uses.
Desenex is a one-trick pony. But where is the confusion? Both Listerine |
and alcohol are multipurpose (and cheaper) remedies. I don't know if other
people find Listerine as good at defeating athlete's foot, of course. And I
don't know if it is the alcohol content in Listerine that does the job for
me. It's the start of care, of course. The rest of the treatment is
regular washing of the affected area, with thorough drying before putting on
socks and shoes. I think that the alcohol removes some skin oils, thus
enabling an easier job of the drying out that killing the fungus needs.
| Quote: |
However,
Listerine lists a generous percentage of alcohol*. I use listerine at the
first little tingle of an itch. Stings a bit. Do you suppose that is why
Desenex became so popular? I am assuming it doesn't sting upon
application.
*Not that alcohol is the primary antiseptic ingredient. It isn't listed
among the active (less than .5% ingredients, which contain Thymol,
Eucalyptol, Methyl Salicylate and Menthol. I probably get the fungus so
drunk it just goes to sleep. But it doesn't come back for more. I get
the
problem less often than yearly. I would expect Desenex or whatever would
lose some effectiveness over a span of 10 or 15 years.
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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Peter Moylan filted:
| Quote: |
For a long time I've been trying - without much success - to explain
this distinction to my wife. When I empty the compost bucket I usually
add a bit of dry garden dirt and swirl it around to soak up the
moisture and coax out the last few reluctant potato peelings. Obviously
this leaves some dirt marks, but it's good clean dirt, quite different
from decomposing vegetables. How do you explain this to someone who
doesn't have "good clean dirt" in their vocabulary?
|
You let the folks over at The Straight Dope explain the distinction between the
various uses for dirt:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mfill.html
I tried to find a picture of either a "clean fill dirt" or "clean fill dirt
wanted" sign, but Google wasn't being cooperative....r |
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Adam Grinter
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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"Martin Ambuhl" <mambuhl@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:OdR4f.15712$vw6.2037@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"I'm dirty, mean, and mighty unclean"
What difference is there between dirty and unclean?
I doubt that AC/DC have any greater grasp of English than they do of
music.
|
But, as another poster has pointed out, this is a quote from a TV ad that is
one of the most famous jingles in Australian advertising history, running on
TV for years in the 60s and 70s. It is absolutely beyond question that this
line is a humourous reference to the ad. No Australian of AC/DC's
generation could possibly have missed the joke. |
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Mike Page
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Two questions from song lyrics |
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On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:40:46 +0000 (UTC),
peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) wrote:
| Quote: | Troy Steadman turpitued:
Lothar Frings wrote:
What difference is there between dirty and unclean?
There is a difference. "Dirty" is usually "coated in dirt" whereas
unclean suggests "diseased".
For a long time I've been trying - without much success - to explain
this distinction to my wife. When I empty the compost bucket I usually
add a bit of dry garden dirt and swirl it around to soak up the
moisture and coax out the last few reluctant potato peelings. Obviously
this leaves some dirt marks, but it's good clean dirt, quite different
from decomposing vegetables. How do you explain this to someone who
doesn't have "good clean dirt" in their vocabulary?
|
You could try calling it 'topsoil' or 'composting accelerator' or
somethingl like that.
Mike Page |
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