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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:20 am
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | Maria Conlon wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
Martin Ambuhl wrote:
Ed S wrote:
What proportion of Americans understand the Brit word 'cheeky'
(meaning impudent)?
I would guess close to 100% of Americans understand the American
word 'cheeky' (meaning impudent). They also understand the
American noun 'cheek' used in 'You have some cheek calling this a
Brit word.'
Nevertheless, Merriam-Webster's Collegiate is cheeky enough to call
"cheek", as being used here, a chiefly British term.
Merriam-Webster Online doesn't, though.
It does, just like the Collegiate -- under the transitive verb.
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You're right. It does say that "cheek" is chiefly British. My mistake
was not noticing that the previous poster was referring to "cheek." I
was referring to "cheeky."
And I agree that "cheek," the verb meaning to speak rudely or impudently
to, is seldom used in the US.
Not very cheekily,
Maria
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:44 am
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | Maria Conlon wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
Martin Ambuhl wrote:
Ed S wrote:
What proportion of Americans understand the Brit word 'cheeky'
(meaning impudent)?
I would guess close to 100% of Americans understand the American
word 'cheeky' (meaning impudent). They also understand the
American noun 'cheek' used in 'You have some cheek calling this a
Brit word.'
Nevertheless, Merriam-Webster's Collegiate is cheeky enough to call
"cheek", as being used here, a chiefly British term.
Merriam-Webster Online doesn't, though.
It does, just like the Collegiate -- under the transitive verb.
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While I made reference only to the adjective 'cheeky' and the noun
'cheek.' I fail to see how you can claim that "'cheek', as being used
here" applies. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:05 am
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Martin Ambuhl wrote:
| Quote: | Skitt wrote:
Maria Conlon wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
Martin Ambuhl wrote:
Ed S wrote:
What proportion of Americans understand the Brit word 'cheeky'
(meaning impudent)?
I would guess close to 100% of Americans understand the American
word 'cheeky' (meaning impudent). They also understand the
American noun 'cheek' used in 'You have some cheek calling this a
Brit word.'
Nevertheless, Merriam-Webster's Collegiate is cheeky enough to call
"cheek", as being used here, a chiefly British term.
Merriam-Webster Online doesn't, though.
It does, just like the Collegiate -- under the transitive verb.
While I made reference only to the adjective 'cheeky' and the noun
'cheek.' I fail to see how you can claim that "'cheek', as being used
here" applies.
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I made no claims as to usage, only about Merriam-Webster Online having the
same information as the Collegiate. The usage claim was made by Charles.
See above.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:53 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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"Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ELidnRmOuuu9_MzeRVn-hg@comcast.com...
| Quote: | Martin Ambuhl wrote:
Skitt wrote:
Maria Conlon wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
Martin Ambuhl wrote:
Ed S wrote:
What proportion of Americans understand the Brit word 'cheeky'
(meaning impudent)?
I would guess close to 100% of Americans understand the American
word 'cheeky' (meaning impudent). They also understand the
American noun 'cheek' used in 'You have some cheek calling this a
Brit word.'
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A cheeky chick with a nice cheek  |
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Wayne Brown
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:54 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Ed S wrote:
| Quote: | What proportion of Americans understand the Brit word 'cheeky'
(meaning impudent)?
Each time I (a Briton) say that word to an American, I get the
impression they have not heard it before (well, not as meaning
impudent, anyway), which strikes me as strange, since it's about as
old as the hills in BritE usage.
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That's a question that's impossible to answer. A reliable reply could only
result from a poll of the population. Some Americans seem to know many words
and expressions associated primarily with Britain while others appear to be
baffled by the most common ones, which American writers have also used when
writing about Britain or putting words into the mouths of their British
characters. Who knows what, I suppose, depends on a number of factors like
TV and movie viewing preferences, reading habits, social class, background,
education and even age.
There was once a time among certain classes of Americans when even their
children read voraciously and their reading material definitely included
British writers. As a result, certain British words and expressions were
learned by osmosis. American children asked at some point what Scrooge meant
might have answered he was a relative of Donald Duck, Uncle Scrooge McDuck.
Yet generations of American children grew up with the figure of Ebenezer
Scrooge in Dickens's _A Christmas Carol_, and Scrooge as a synonym for
skinflint is at home on *both* sides of the Atlantic. In fact, Dickens was a
favorite writer among Americans from the beginning of his career. His book
_David Copperfield_ was well chosen in _Gone With The Wind_, the
American film classic about the Civil War, for the tense scene when Melanie
Hamilton Wilkes reads from it to a group of Southern ladies waiting for news
of their endangered loved ones. Dickens was lionized and mobbed wherever he
went on his trip to America in 1842. He wrote to a friend: "I can do nothing
that I want to do, go nowhere where I want to go, and see nothing that I
want to see. If I turn into the street, I am followed by a multitude."
(Admittedly, Americans were disappointed by Dickens's assessment of
America).
English usage comes to mind in connection with an incident several months
ago when an American columnist wrote scathing criticism of a woman involved
in a controversy raging at Harvard University. The columnist wrote that the
woman had had a fit of "the vapors." A friend of mine in the US with an
excellent university education said he had no idea what "the vapors" meant
and that he had never even heard the expression. Of course, it's archaic;
however, I would have expected it to be slumbering somewhere deep, deep in
the dusty inner archives of a native speaker with an education on the level
of my friend's.
Conclusion? Despite an almost irresistible temptation, one should be
cautious about assumptions concerning a "proportion of Americans." Some
Americans seem to become quite testy when British people begin explaining
some word or expression the Americans have been familiar with for a long
time. Other Americans don't seem to have the foggiest notion of the meaning
of something that's not particularly British but standard English, perhaps
not frequently used in the United States. My advice? If you use a word or
expression and your American interlocutor's eyes suddenly glaze over, it
might be best to rephrase your last remark.
Regards, ----- WB. |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:54:49 +0200, the renowned "Wayne Brown"
<Wayne.Brown@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | My advice? If you use a word or
expression and your American interlocutor's eyes suddenly glaze over, it
might be best to rephrase your last remark.
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Americans who fail to understand common BrE terms *should* be ticked
off.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:22:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:54:49 +0200, the renowned "Wayne Brown"
Wayne.Brown@aol.com> wrote:
My advice? If you use a word or
expression and your American interlocutor's eyes suddenly glaze over, it
might be best to rephrase your last remark.
Americans who fail to understand common BrE terms *should* be ticked
off.
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Yes, but we shouldn't get snarky about it.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> writes:
| Quote: | On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:54:49 +0200, the renowned "Wayne Brown"
Wayne.Brown@aol.com> wrote:
My advice? If you use a word or expression and your American
interlocutor's eyes suddenly glaze over, it might be best to
rephrase your last remark.
Americans who fail to understand common BrE terms *should* be ticked
off.
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With an attitude like that, they will be.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The plural of "anecdote"
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |is not "data"
Palo Alto, CA 94304
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:36 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:22:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:54:49 +0200, the renowned "Wayne Brown"
Wayne.Brown@aol.com> wrote:
My advice? If you use a word or
expression and your American interlocutor's eyes suddenly glaze over, it
might be best to rephrase your last remark.
Americans who fail to understand common BrE terms *should* be ticked
off.
Yes, but we shouldn't get snarky about it.
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Oh, don't be such a big girl's blouse.
--
SML |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:36:46 -0700, que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com
(Sara Lorimer) wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:22:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:54:49 +0200, the renowned "Wayne Brown"
Wayne.Brown@aol.com> wrote:
My advice? If you use a word or
expression and your American interlocutor's eyes suddenly glaze over, it
might be best to rephrase your last remark.
Americans who fail to understand common BrE terms *should* be ticked
off.
Yes, but we shouldn't get snarky about it.
Oh, don't be such a big girl's blouse.
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I like that phrase. It was used often, very often, in
soc.culture.irish, but no one was really able to explain the origin or
the association. The meaning was quite clear, but not how the phrase
came to be.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:47 am
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:36:46 -0700, que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com
(Sara Lorimer) wrote:
Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:22:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:54:49 +0200, the renowned "Wayne Brown"
Wayne.Brown@aol.com> wrote:
My advice? If you use a word or
expression and your American interlocutor's eyes suddenly glaze
over, it might be best to rephrase your last remark.
Americans who fail to understand common BrE terms *should* be
ticked off.
Yes, but we shouldn't get snarky about it.
Oh, don't be such a big girl's blouse.
I like that phrase. It was used often, very often, in
soc.culture.irish, but no one was really able to explain the origin or
the association. The meaning was quite clear, but not how the phrase
came to be.
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I recollect much discussion here in the past without any firm
conclusion. Partridge suggests it's quite modern (1960's), we know it
was a catchphrase of Hylda Baker, a 60s Brit comedienne though we can't
establish she coined it, and it may be related to a variant of "blowze"
meaning a slatternly woman.
But it's a lovely phrase.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:07 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:08:14 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:22:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:54:49 +0200, the renowned "Wayne Brown"
Wayne.Brown@aol.com> wrote:
My advice? If you use a word or
expression and your American interlocutor's eyes suddenly glaze over, it
might be best to rephrase your last remark.
Americans who fail to understand common BrE terms *should* be ticked
off.
Yes, but we shouldn't get snarky about it.
|
Uh, TC, that is an American term, not a British one.
One wonders why Coop doesn't shift his residence from America to one
of the countries he most likes -- either England or Ireland, that is.
There, he could chat away using all manner of Briticisms without being
given the odd look he must receive in Orlando when pulling such
stunts.
Could this not be related to Coop's balls, a subject I broached upon
yesterday? (I don't know about you-all, but, frankly, I find the topic
of Coop's balls considerably more interesting, not that it's
interesting in the least, than endless discussions on the "correct"
spelling of email. If I didn't get that point across with my ballsy
post, I apologize.)
--
Charles Riggs |
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Salvatore Volatile
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | One wonders why Coop doesn't shift his residence from America to one
of the countries he most likes -- either England or Ireland, that is.
There, he could chat away using all manner of Briticisms without being
given the odd look he must receive in Orlando when pulling such
stunts.
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Although doesn't Florida have an unusually large number of British expats
in residence? Something about the sunshine. |
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Salvatore Volatile
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:44:06 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> wrote:
Although doesn't Florida have an unusually large number of British expats
in residence? Something about the sunshine.
And the invigorating "breezes"?
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Yes, I've heard at least one BrE speaker speak of the "sea breezes" in
Coop's own burg of Orlando.
Note: Coop actually lives in an unincorporated area in the Greater
Orlando metropolitan area. But one might say that Coop lives in Orlando
in the BrE sense (of the city of Orlando, or at least the conurbation.
One would need the Omrud to visit Orlando and boink with Coop at Coop's
villa to know for sure). |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:33 pm
Post subject: Re: How many Americans know the word 'cheeky' as meaning imp |
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Salvatore Volatile wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Riggs wrote:
One wonders why Coop doesn't shift his residence from America to
one
of the countries he most likes -- either England or Ireland, that
is.
There, he could chat away using all manner of Briticisms without
being given the odd look he must receive in Orlando when pulling
such
stunts.
Although doesn't Florida have an unusually large number of British
expats in residence? Something about the sunshine.
|
And the fact that you can buy a seven-bedroom house, on the
golf-course, with a pool and a hot tub, for the price of a beach hut
at Cromer.
--
Mike. |
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