| Author |
Message |
Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:22 am
Post subject: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site [was: Re: About that |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | looking at the format and the general tone of it, I'm ready
to trust it about as much as I trust the manual itself.
I want to thank you for telling us about that site. It's
certainly worthwhile to know about. I don't see it at
Donna's Intro B; I think it would be an excellent addition
there.
( It's at
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/ .)
By the way, I've just now discovered that the URL you gave
us works, but only if I lose the colon you tacked onto the
end of it. [...]
|
I can get to the Q&A, but the "Search the Manual" always gives me a
596 or something, though I'm a registered user.
On the matter of trust, it may call itself a "manual", but when all
is said and done, it's just another style guide. And far too bloody
long, at that. (I think of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra: maybe it's
possible to be _too_ disciplined?) You still have to come back down
to personal judgement and norma scribendi when you're working for
yourself, and house style if you're working for somebody else.
--
Mike. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:30 am
Post subject: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site [was: Re: About that |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | [about a Web site with a FAQ for the Chicago Manual of Style]
I want to thank you for telling us about that site. It's
certainly worthwhile to know about. I don't see it at
Donna's Intro B; I think it would be an excellent addition
there.
|
You're welcome.
| Quote: | ( It's at
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/ .)
By the way, I've just now discovered that the URL you gave
us works, but only if I lose the colon you tacked onto the
end of it. I can copy and paste the URL without the colon,
but if I just click on it in your posting, which is what I
like to do, it returns a "Not found" because the colon makes
it an invalid URL. With a space before and after a URL,
clicking works. Most other precatenated or postcatenated
characters keep the URL from being clickable.
|
Yes, there are newsreaders that do not process clickable links properly.
Users of those should remove the colon, or whatever closely follows the URL.
My newsreader (OE) recognizes the true URL, even with a colon or a
parenthesis after it. I thought that all of the more recent newsreaders did
that, especially ones that cost money.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:16 am
Post subject: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site [was: Re: About that |
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Laura F. Spira <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham wrote:
I want to thank you for telling us about that site.
This always strikes me as a very odd construction which seems
predominantly Leftpondian. What does "I want to thank you" add that is
not conveyed by a simple "Thank you" or even "Thank you very much"?
Somehow, I seem to hear a "but" which would be followed by a reason for
*not* giving thanks.
|
Well, as a person to whom it is a normal phrase, I can say I don't hear
any negativity in it. Setting up the few words before the "thank you"
gives it a certain graceful emphasis and importance that merely blurting
out "Thank you" does not. It also suggests that the desire to thank has
been building up for some time, like "I've been meaning to thank you" or
"I often wished I had the chance to thank you for..."
I'm well aware that phrases that are foreign to one's vocabulary sound
odd, bringing up the wrong associations. That's what makes foreign,
foreign.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Gerald Smyth
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site [was: Re: About that |
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Donna Richoux wrote:
[snip]
| Quote: | I'm well aware that phrases that are foreign to one's vocabulary sound
odd, bringing up the wrong associations. That's what makes foreign,
foreign.
|
That last comma there is positively alien to me....g |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site [was: Re: About that |
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Gerald Smyth wrote:
| Quote: | Donna Richoux wrote:
[snip]
I'm well aware that phrases that are foreign to one's vocabulary
sound odd, bringing up the wrong associations. That's what makes
foreign, foreign.
That last comma there is positively alien to me....g
|
Just plain wrong to me. Misleading.
--
Mike. |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:06 am
Post subject: Clickable links [was: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site |
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:30:38 -0700, "Skitt"
<skitt99@comcast.net> said:
| Quote: | Yes, there are newsreaders that do not process clickable
links properly.
|
"Properly"?
Can you reference a Usenet document that says what rules a
clickable link should conform to? Is Outlook Express's
allowing any character appended to a URL possibly another
example of Microsoft going its own arrogant way and ignoring
normal practices?
When I used to use Internet Explorer, I often found that
things worked there but not in other browsers because
Microsoft had decided to ignore the standard and go its own
way. But that wasn't the only reason I quit using Internet
Explorer.
I use Agent and I like it a lot. I've tried Outlook Express
and I didn't like it at all.
| Quote: | Users of those should remove the colon, or whatever
closely follows the URL.
|
I wonder if you realize that in order to remove the colon,
it's necessary to take the URL to somewhere where editing is
supported, like the address line in the browser. Do you
understand that that's a lot more trouble than just clicking
on the URL?
What's so hard about putting a space before and after the
URL? It seems to me it's a courteous thing to do when you
know there are some newsreaders that won't accept the
extraneous character.
If anyone has a newsreader that won't let you click on a URL
that's preceded and followed by spaces, I would appreciate
hearing about it. I'd hate to think I was making anyone go
to the trouble of copying and pasting a URL just to get rid
of an unacceptable appended character.
| Quote: | My newsreader (OE) recognizes the true URL, even with a
colon or a parenthesis after it. I thought that all of
the more recent newsreaders did that, especially ones that
cost money.
|
Why is it your policy to make things convenient for only
people with certain newsreaders? Don't you like to be
courteous to everyone?
By the way, Agent does cost money. I don't know what
Outlook Express costs, but I wouldn't pay two cents for it.
If someone wanted to pay me to use it, I would consider only
a very generous offer. |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:13 am
Post subject: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site [was: Re: About that |
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Skitt filted:
| Quote: |
Yes, there are newsreaders that do not process clickable links properly.
Users of those should remove the colon, or whatever closely follows the URL.
My newsreader (OE) recognizes the true URL, even with a colon or a
parenthesis after it. I thought that all of the more recent newsreaders did
that, especially ones that cost money.
|
I set up a test-case a few years back when this subject came up...of concern at
that time was whether a URL at the end of a sentence would be damaged by the
sentence-ending period...with some difficulty (my FTP program didn't want to let
me post a file with an odd-looking name), I created two HTML pages with
identical addresses other than that one had a dot *after* the .htm extension...I
then put a link, with the dot at the end, into a message and invited users of
that group to click it and report the results, and to list the name and version
of their newsreader and browser programs....
Nearly everyone went to the page that said "your newsreader ignores the dot at
the end of a URL"...I myself was using a text-only newsreader at the time that
didn't interpret links at all; someone using a different oddball program was the
only one who went to the other page....r |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:20 am
Post subject: The comma's intrinsic meaning [was: Re: _Chicago Manual of S |
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On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:05:25 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> said:
| Quote: | Gerald Smyth wrote:
Donna Richoux wrote:
[snip]
I'm well aware that phrases that are foreign to one's vocabulary
sound odd, bringing up the wrong associations. That's what makes
foreign, foreign.
That last comma there is positively alien to me....g
Just plain wrong to me. Misleading.
|
To me, it's perfectly acceptable. I take it to be
equivalent to "That's what makes foreign ... well, foreign",
but with not so great a pause.
There's nothing wrong with using a comma now and then with
its intrinsic meaning, to signal a pause. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:34 am
Post subject: Re: Clickable links [was: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | "Skitt" said:
Yes, there are newsreaders that do not process clickable
links properly.
"Properly"?
|
Yes, "properly", in the sense of "so it works".
| Quote: | Can you reference a Usenet document that says what rules a
clickable link should conform to?
|
No, can you?
| Quote: | Is Outlook Express's
allowing any character appended to a URL possibly another
example of Microsoft going its own arrogant way and ignoring
normal practices?
|
I wouldn't know.
| Quote: | When I used to use Internet Explorer, I often found that
things worked there but not in other browsers because
Microsoft had decided to ignore the standard and go its own
way. But that wasn't the only reason I quit using Internet
Explorer.
I use Agent and I like it a lot. I've tried Outlook Express
and I didn't like it at all.
Users of those should remove the colon, or whatever
closely follows the URL.
I wonder if you realize that in order to remove the colon,
it's necessary to take the URL to somewhere where editing is
supported, like the address line in the browser. Do you
understand that that's a lot more trouble than just clicking
on the URL?
|
I've copied and pasted URLs to IE when that has been necessary. That
happens when someone indicates a message ID without the news:// prefix,
resulting in something that is taken as an e-mail address.
| Quote: | What's so hard about putting a space before and after the
URL? It seems to me it's a courteous thing to do when you
know there are some newsreaders that won't accept the
extraneous character.
|
It's not hard, its just not proper English. As I said, I wasn't aware that
there are still newsreaders that don't know where a URL ends.
| Quote: | If anyone has a newsreader that won't let you click on a URL
that's preceded and followed by spaces, I would appreciate
hearing about it. I'd hate to think I was making anyone go
to the trouble of copying and pasting a URL just to get rid
of an unacceptable appended character.
|
Now you are asking a silly thing, but you knew that.
| Quote: | My newsreader (OE) recognizes the true URL, even with a
colon or a parenthesis after it. I thought that all of
the more recent newsreaders did that, especially ones that
cost money.
Why is it your policy to make things convenient for only
people with certain newsreaders? Don't you like to be
courteous to everyone?
|
Of course, but I thought that the problem had been fixed by now. Microsoft
fixed it in their software.
| Quote: | By the way, Agent does cost money.
|
I knew that.
| Quote: | I don't know what
Outlook Express costs, but I wouldn't pay two cents for it.
If someone wanted to pay me to use it, I would consider only
a very generous offer.
|
It came free with the computer, and I like it. I tried Free Agent and hated
it. To each his own.
Seems I've hit a nerve. Sorry. Good thing I'm not a dentist. Take a few
deep breaths, and everything will be OK again.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:38 am
Post subject: The emoticon "g" [was: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web sit |
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On 10 Oct 2005 16:40:10 -0700, "Gerald Smyth"
<geraldsmyth1@yahoo.com> said:
[...]
| Quote: | That last comma there is positively alien to me....g
|
Why does Gerald Smyth always end his postings with an
emoticon ("g") especially when nothing funny seems to have
been said?
Yeah, I know, it's not an emoticon, but it frequently
strikes me that way. |
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Skitt
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:39 am
Post subject: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site [was: Re: About that |
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R H Draney wrote:
| Quote: | Skitt filted:
Yes, there are newsreaders that do not process clickable links
properly. Users of those should remove the colon, or whatever
closely follows the URL. My newsreader (OE) recognizes the true URL,
even with a colon or a parenthesis after it. I thought that all of
the more recent newsreaders did that, especially ones that cost
money.
I set up a test-case a few years back when this subject came up...of
concern at that time was whether a URL at the end of a sentence would
be damaged by the sentence-ending period...with some difficulty (my
FTP program didn't want to let me post a file with an odd-looking
name), I created two HTML pages with identical addresses other than
that one had a dot *after* the .htm extension...I then put a link,
with the dot at the end, into a message and invited users of that
group to click it and report the results, and to list the name and
version of their newsreader and browser programs....
Nearly everyone went to the page that said "your newsreader ignores
the dot at the end of a URL"...I myself was using a text-only
newsreader at the time that didn't interpret links at all; someone
using a different oddball program was the only one who went to the
other page....r
|
.... and, as you said, this was a few years back. There have been software
updates.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:48 am
Post subject: Re: Clickable links [was: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web |
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:34:45 -0700, "Skitt"
<skitt99@comcast.net> said:
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham wrote:
|
[...]
| Quote: | I don't know what Outlook Express costs, but I wouldn't
pay two cents for it. If someone wanted to pay me to
use it, I would consider only a very generous offer.
It came free with the computer, and I like it. I tried
Free Agent and hated it. To each his own.
|
Free Agent was only a pale shadow of Agent. Anyone who has
tried Free Agent and thinks he or she knows what Agent is
probably like is dreadfully wrong.
Anyway, I don't think Forte is offering Free Agent anymore,
but they still offer a free trial of Agent, if I remember
right. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Clickable links [was: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | "Skitt" said:
Bob Cunningham wrote:
[...]
I don't know what Outlook Express costs, but I wouldn't
pay two cents for it. If someone wanted to pay me to
use it, I would consider only a very generous offer.
It came free with the computer, and I like it. I tried
Free Agent and hated it. To each his own.
Free Agent was only a pale shadow of Agent. Anyone who has
tried Free Agent and thinks he or she knows what Agent is
probably like is dreadfully wrong.
Anyway, I don't think Forte is offering Free Agent anymore,
but they still offer a free trial of Agent, if I remember
right.
|
Does it do e-mail? I don't want to use separate programs for e-mail and
newsgroups.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: Clickable links [was: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web |
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:34:45 -0700, "Skitt"
<skitt99@comcast.net> said:
| Quote: | As I said, I wasn't aware that
there are still newsreaders that don't know where a URL ends.
|
Actually, you didn't say that. What you said, in effect,
was that some newsreaders, the later and better ones and the
ones that cost money, know where a URL ends.
You failed to make allowances for the user who loves a
newsreader for certain of its features while others of its
features might fall short in some respects that the user
considers less important. Why make that user copy and paste
in order to spare yourself the inconvenience of typing a
couple of spaces? |
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Joe Fineman
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:02 am
Post subject: Re: _Chicago Manual of Style_ Web site [was: Re: About that |
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"Laura F. Spira" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
| Quote: | This always strikes me as a very odd construction which seems
predominantly Leftpondian. What does "I want to thank you" add that
is not conveyed by a simple "Thank you" or even "Thank you very
much"? Somehow, I seem to hear a "but" which would be followed by a
reason for *not* giving thanks.
|
I imagine "I want to thank" as a colloquial & not very sensible
shortening of "I would like to thank", which in turn might be short
for "If the company will forgive me for taking up its time, and the
person thanked will forgive me for embarrassing him or her by calling
attention to him or her in public, I will thank".
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net
||: Utopia is no paradise.  | |
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