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Numeromania
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:43 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:21:15 GMT, Numeromania <anon@example.net
wrote:
Nrdo Hesson wrote:
when, why, where, etc.
nrdo
No difference. "Can not" is mostly American.
I think you'll find "can not" in BrE more often than in AmE, where
"cannot" is more the norm.
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In my understanding (and experience), the reverse is true.
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Numeromania
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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Barbara Need wrote:
| Quote: |
He can not go to school tomorrow (it is an optional day)
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That's incorrect usage -- "can not" means exactly the same thing as
"cannot". If you want to express an absence of necessity, you use "need
not", as in "He need not go to school tomorrow". |
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Nrdo Hesson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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Perhaps I could rephrase the question.
Are there any situations where "can not" would
be a preferred construction, or even necessary?
Can it be eliminated entirely?
Nrdo
--
If you know who you are, Nrdo Hesson
you know who I am. popenrdo@yahoo.com
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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Numeromania wrote:
| Quote: | Barbara Need wrote:
He can not go to school tomorrow (it is an optional day)
That's incorrect usage -- "can not" means exactly the same thing as
"cannot". If you want to express an absence of necessity, you use "need
not", as in "He need not go to school tomorrow".
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"He can _not_ go to school tomorrow." is not incorrect when it means
"He has the option of not going to school together." "Cannot" in such a
sentence cannot be substituted for "can _not._" "Can not," however,
cannot be substituted for "can _not_": Italics, which represent the
emphasis which occurs in speech, must be used.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Numeromania
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: |
"He can _not_ go to school tomorrow." is not incorrect when it means
"He has the option of not going to school together." "Cannot" in such a
sentence cannot be substituted for "can _not._" "Can not," however,
cannot be substituted for "can _not_": Italics, which represent the
emphasis which occurs in speech, must be used.
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I've never seen "can not" used that way. Is it not true that "not"
immediately after an auxiliary verb modifies the auxiliary verb (as
opposed to the main verb)? |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:49:55 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrought:
| Quote: | Barbara Need wrote:
In article <6zi1f.1050$B14.952@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
Mark P <usenet@fall2005REMOVE.fastmailCAPS.fm> wrote:
Nrdo Hesson wrote:
when, why, where, etc.
nrdo
I would say,
cannot = unable to
can not = able not to
although "can not" seems like a strange construction to me.
People cannot fly.
People can not walk.
Try another verb, like go
He cannot go to school tomorrow (he has a doctor's appointment)
He can't go to school tomorrow (ditto)
He can not go to school tomorrow (it is an optional day)
I think it would be wrong to encourage a learner in this view of "can
not". Depending as it does on the sound, it's very much a feature of
spoken English, and on the whole I'd say it was quite a bit less
common than the alternatives, even in speech. Without strong support
from context, it would be poor style in writing.
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What he said, but if "he can not go to school tomorrow" was for some
reason unavoidable (because it was part of quote, for example), either
"not" should be italicised or the hyphenated verb "not-go" might be
coined.
Incidentally, I don't think it's been mentioned yet that those who
claim that "can not" should always, without exception, be written as
"cannot" or "can't" are Dead Wrong. For instance, it's the only option
here:
"Mum, can I take this bottle of whisky to Tracy's party?"
"No, you can not!"
--
Ross Howard |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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On 8 Oct 2005 13:31:21 -0700, ceceliaarmstrong@yahoo.com wrought:
| Quote: | In beginning books, those intended for children under the age of 8, use
"can not." In everything else, use "cannot" or "can't."
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Dead Wrong (see my other post today in this thread).
--
Ross Howard |
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Richard Yates
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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| Quote: | Incidentally, I don't think it's been mentioned yet that those who
claim that "can not" should always, without exception, be written as
"cannot" or "can't" are Dead Wrong. For instance, it's the only option
here:
"Mum, can I take this bottle of whisky to Tracy's party?"
"No, you can not!"
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Not in these parts (Oregon). "No, you cannot!" is the only correct form of
this sentence.
Richard Yates |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 06:47:54 -0700, "Richard Yates"
<rayates53@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Incidentally, I don't think it's been mentioned yet that those who
claim that "can not" should always, without exception, be written as
"cannot" or "can't" are Dead Wrong. For instance, it's the only option
here:
"Mum, can I take this bottle of whisky to Tracy's party?"
"No, you can not!"
Not in these parts (Oregon). "No, you cannot!" is the only correct form of
this sentence.
Richard Yates
Doesn't that depend on what effect the sentence is intended to convey? |
If you are writing dialog or replicating conversation, I can "hear"
Mum saying "No, you can not!" because Mum is giving quite a bit of
emphasis to the "not". The "cannot" seems softer and less determined-
Mum-like. |
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Barbara Need
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:43 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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In article <Yy92f.641$vi2.616@trndny04>, Numeromania <anon@example.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Barbara Need wrote:
He can not go to school tomorrow (it is an optional day)
That's incorrect usage -- "can not" means exactly the same thing as
"cannot". If you want to express an absence of necessity, you use "need
not", as in "He need not go to school tomorrow".
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No it does not. Not in my English.
And I would not say that "can not" and "need not" are perfectly
synonymous. The former emphasizes the ability to not do something; the
latter the negation of the necessity/obligation to do something.
Of course, I can hardly be said to be a naive speaker of modals--they
are within my area of professional interest!
Barbara Need
UChicago |
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Barbara Need
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:44 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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In article <1128926064.632705.51470@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Numeromania wrote:
Barbara Need wrote:
He can not go to school tomorrow (it is an optional day)
That's incorrect usage -- "can not" means exactly the same thing as
"cannot". If you want to express an absence of necessity, you use "need
not", as in "He need not go to school tomorrow".
"He can _not_ go to school tomorrow." is not incorrect when it means
"He has the option of not going to school together." "Cannot" in such a
sentence cannot be substituted for "can _not._" "Can not," however,
cannot be substituted for "can _not_": Italics, which represent the
emphasis which occurs in speech, must be used.
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You are making a graphical distinction, not a linguistic one. And I
don't have a problem with can not with not unitalicized.
Barbara Need
UChicago |
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Barbara Need
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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In article <29r2f.4350$AR1.3619@trndny09>,
Numeromania <anon@example.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Raymond S. Wise wrote:
"He can _not_ go to school tomorrow." is not incorrect when it means
"He has the option of not going to school together." "Cannot" in such a
sentence cannot be substituted for "can _not._" "Can not," however,
cannot be substituted for "can _not_": Italics, which represent the
emphasis which occurs in speech, must be used.
I've never seen "can not" used that way. Is it not true that "not"
immediately after an auxiliary verb modifies the auxiliary verb (as
opposed to the main verb)?
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No. You must not do that means you have a (positive obligation, must) to
not do something. To negate the obligation (in English), you should use
need not.
This is actually quite common in the worlds languages. I don't remember
the specifics, but a negation + modal in Chinese does not necessarily
result in a negation of the modal.
Barbara Need
UChicago |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 06:47:54 -0700, "Richard Yates"
<rayates53@comcast.net> said:
| Quote: | Incidentally, I don't think it's been mentioned yet that those who
claim that "can not" should always, without exception, be written as
"cannot" or "can't" are Dead Wrong. For instance, it's the only option
here:
"Mum, can I take this bottle of whisky to Tracy's party?"
"No, you can not!"
Not in these parts (Oregon). "No, you cannot!" is the only
correct form of this sentence.
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Same in these parts, except that I would say "normal"
instead of "correct".
But to express the ability to refrain from doing something,
"can not" is the normal choice, as in
The doctor has ordered me to quite smoking, and he
tells me he thinks I can not smoke if I set my mind
to not smoke. But I can not follow his orders if I
want to not follow them. |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:45 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:43:06 -0500, Barbara Need
<language-labs@uchicago.edu> said:
| Quote: | In article <Yy92f.641$vi2.616@trndny04>, Numeromania <anon@example.net
wrote:
Barbara Need wrote:
He can not go to school tomorrow (it is an optional day)
That's incorrect usage -- "can not" means exactly the same thing as
"cannot". If you want to express an absence of necessity, you use "need
not", as in "He need not go to school tomorrow".
No it does not. Not in my English.
And I would not say that "can not" and "need not" are perfectly
synonymous. The former emphasizes the ability to not do something; the
latter the negation of the necessity/obligation to do something.
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The former's meaning depends upon the connotation assumed
for "can". "I can" can mean I have the ability to or I have
permission to. Where it means the latter, "I can not" means
pretty close to the same as "I need not".
(Thistlebottomians may insist that the "permission" meaning
of "can" is wrong and it should be "may", but most users of
everyday English don't honor that distinction outside the
classroom.)
Either of the following two is correct:
He cannot go to school tomorrow.
He can not go to school tomorrow.
You can't say that either of them is incorrect without first
getting an explanation of the writer's intended meaning.
Their meanings are quite different. They are, respectively,
He is unable to go to school tomorrow.
He has permission to be absent from school tomorrow.
In speech, the difference between the two is made clear by
stress and intonation.
| Quote: | Of course, I can hardly be said to be a naive speaker of
modals--they are within my area of professional interest!
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I hope you're not one of those who insist that "used to" in
the sense "was accustomed to" is a modal (or a quasi-modal,
or a sorta modal, or a whatever modal). That deplorable
opinion tends to obscure the absurdity of "didn't used to".
When "use" with the meaning "be accustomed" is recognized
for what it is, an ordinary verb some of whose tenses happen
to be currently dormant, the unacceptability of "didn't used
to" is clearer.
This seems to be more of a problem in the UK, where usage
tend to accept "didn't used to", than in the US, where most
usage guides recognize its ungrammaticality.
| Quote: | Barbara Need
UChicago |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:01 pm
Post subject: Re: "cannot" and "can not" |
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:44:32 -0500, Barbara Need
<language-labs@uchicago.edu> said:
| Quote: | In article <1128926064.632705.51470@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote:
|
[...[
| Quote: | "He can _not_ go to school tomorrow." is not incorrect when it means
"He has the option of not going to school together." "Cannot" in such a
sentence cannot be substituted for "can _not._" "Can not," however,
cannot be substituted for "can _not_": Italics, which represent the
emphasis which occurs in speech, must be used.
You are making a graphical distinction, not a linguistic one. And I
don't have a problem with can not with not unitalicized.
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I can say "I can not" meaning "I am able to not" without a
trace of added emphasis on "not". I think I would put more
stress on "not" than on "can" only if I were disputing
someone's telling me that I can.
"Can" would get more stress that "not" in a case like
I'll probably go to school tomorrow, but I CAN not.
In that case, a writer might properly choose to italicize
"can".
By the way, a concise illustration of the difference between
the meanings of "can not" and "cannot" is
I'm able to not.
I'm not able to. |
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