| Author |
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Tron
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:14 pm
Post subject: Inter alia |
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Hi,
I'd appreciate any clues to finding an English word abbreviation of
latin "i.a." ("inter alia"),
equivalent to e.g. German "u.A." ("unter Anderem"). Google gave too much
and too little.
Is there such an abbreviation as "aot." for "among(st) other things"?
TiA,
Tron
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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Tron spake thusly:
| Quote: | Hi,
I'd appreciate any clues to finding an English word abbreviation of
latin "i.a." ("inter alia"),
equivalent to e.g. German "u.A." ("unter Anderem"). Google gave too much
and too little.
Is there such an abbreviation as "aot." for "among(st) other things"?
|
I don't think so. Many of our abbreviations of this type are
actually Latin, including one you used above.
e.g.
I.e.
etc.
et al.
"inter alia" is reasonably well known but I'm not aware of it being
abbreviated.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Tron
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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Hi,
"the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> skrev i melding
news:MPG.1dacc0212ef3a02c98a0be@news.ntlworld.com...
....
Thanks a lot. "Inter alia" it is.
| Quote: | "inter alia" is reasonably well known but I'm not aware of it being
abbreviated.
|
I found it thusly yonder: http://www.export911.com/ref/abbrev3.htm.
T
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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Tron wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
"the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> skrev i melding
news:MPG.1dacc0212ef3a02c98a0be@news.ntlworld.com...
...
Thanks a lot. "Inter alia" it is.
"inter alia" is reasonably well known but I'm not aware of it
being
abbreviated.
I found it thusly yonder: http://www.export911.com/ref/abbrev3.htm.
|
I don't feel I've seen "i.a." before, but wondered if it was in use.
When your OP came in I had a look in my Collins dictionary and COD9:
it wasn't there, so I suppose it isn't in general BrEtc use. I'm not
at all confident that all readers would work it out at once, so
you're probably right to use the full expression. Can I make a plea
for the plain English "among others", though? "I.e." is fine as a
recognised abbreviation, where an abbreviation is appropriate, but
I'd hate to see "id est" spelled out!
--
Mike. |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:23 am
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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"Tron" <tronfuru@frisurf.no> wrote in message
news:Woy0f.314$3O1.12617@news4.e.nsc.no...
| Quote: | Hi,
"the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> skrev i melding
news:MPG.1dacc0212ef3a02c98a0be@news.ntlworld.com...
...
Thanks a lot. "Inter alia" it is.
"inter alia" is reasonably well known but I'm not aware of it being
abbreviated.
I found it thusly yonder: http://www.export911.com/ref/abbrev3.htm.
|
Strangely, "et al" doesn't appear on that site, at least not in the DEFG
rank.
It doesn't mean _quite_ the same as "i.a.", but is close.
That is, "and others"* is close to "among others" so you can vary the "i.a."
to "et al."
Now, I don't know much Latin, so I am sure to be corrected if my
understanding of "et al" is wrong. As I understand, it is short for "et
alia". |
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Tor
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:40 am
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> averred thusly in
news:qxB0f.410$dB4.30@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
| Quote: |
Now, I don't know much Latin, so I am sure to be corrected if my
understanding of "et al" is wrong. As I understand, it is short for
"et alia".
|
"Et alia" would be "and other things," while "et alii" is "and other
people/men/male-gendered things." The latter is usually what is meant.
"Et aliae" would be "and other women/feminine-gendered things." In Latin,
the male gender plural includes the female gender, when talking about both.
Peace,
Tor
--
Bored? Check out Tor's Rants!
A Left-Libertarian's take on Life (kitty-cats and fixing cars),
the Universe (Maine) and Nothing (Politics).
http://torsrants.blogspot.com |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:52 am
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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"Tor" <torofmaine@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96E5A99C64989torofmainehotmailcom@216.196.97.142...
| Quote: | "Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> averred thusly in
news:qxB0f.410$dB4.30@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Now, I don't know much Latin, so I am sure to be corrected if my
understanding of "et al" is wrong. As I understand, it is short for
"et alia".
"Et alia" would be "and other things," while "et alii" is "and other
people/men/male-gendered things." The latter is usually what is meant.
"Et aliae" would be "and other women/feminine-gendered things." In Latin,
the male gender plural includes the female gender, when talking about
both.
Thanks, Tor. |
Would you say that the same forms/variations would apply to "alia" as used
in "inter alia"? |
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Tron
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:14 am
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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Hi,
"Tron" <tronfuru@frisurf.no> skrev i melding
news:Woy0f.314$3O1.12617@news4.e.nsc.no...
| Quote: | Hi,
"the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> skrev i melding
news:MPG.1dacc0212ef3a02c98a0be@news.ntlworld.com...
...
|
Thanks to all so far.
BTW, would "such as" or "including" be equivalent to "among other
things"?
And would "amongst" mean that the inter alia subject is itself a plural,
like "they were leaders amongst their people", or is there another
distinction, like old/new expression?
And can one say "among other", or is the "things" mandatory?
I was thinking of .... "Philosophy of language discusses, among other,
issues like the concept of meaning." It doesn't look quite right ....
I ask because I'm not sure that the sentence "Philosophy of language
discusses issues like the concept of meaning, et cetera." expresses the
same, at least not always.
More TiA,
Tron |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:47 am
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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"Tron" <tronfuru@frisurf.no> wrote in message
news:FaD0f.372$Ti5.11764@news2.e.nsc.no...
| Quote: | Hi,
Thanks to all so far.
BTW, would "such as" or "including" be equivalent to "among other
things"?
And would "amongst" mean that the inter alia subject is itself a plural,
like "they were leaders amongst their people", or is there another
distinction, like old/new expression?
And can one say "among other", or is the "things" mandatory?
I was thinking of .... "Philosophy of language discusses, among other,
issues like the concept of meaning." It doesn't look quite right ....
I ask because I'm not sure that the sentence "Philosophy of language
discusses issues like the concept of meaning, et cetera." expresses the
same, at least not always.
|
Well, I consider "amongst" to be a synonym of "among", and use both when the
spirit moves me. Others may not like the "old-fashioned" sound of
"amongst", just as they would not like modern usage to include "whilst,
amidst (even amid), learnt," etc.
As to whether one could use either word to replace "such as" or "including",
I would say "yes", but would want to give examples, since "such as other
things" and "including other things" . . . well, let me take that back. I
guess, just to vary the gathering or grouping word(s), I would use these
others. Still, "such as others", to me, screams for a listing of those
"others" of its ilk. It bears a weight of description or comparison, you
see. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:21 am
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | "Tor" <torofmaine@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96E5A99C64989torofmainehotmailcom@216.196.97.142...
"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> averred thusly in
news:qxB0f.410$dB4.30@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Now, I don't know much Latin, so I am sure to be corrected if my
understanding of "et al" is wrong. As I understand, it is short for
"et alia".
"Et alia" would be "and other things," while "et alii" is "and other
people/men/male-gendered things." The latter is usually what is meant.
"Et aliae" would be "and other women/feminine-gendered things." In Latin,
the male gender plural includes the female gender, when talking about
both.
Thanks, Tor.
Would you say that the same forms/variations would apply to "alia" as used
in "inter alia"?
|
No. In et alxx we have nominative case forms. Alia in "inter alia" is
the object of a preposition taking the accusative case. So the
masculine/common form is inter alios and the feminine-only form is
inter alias. Only in the neuter, alia, does this word happen to have
the same form in the nominative and accusative plural cases.
These are all forms of the adjective alius, -a, -ud (other, else) used
as nouns. (Alias in the sense a.k.a. and alibi are related)
Too complicated for everyday use? It sure is. I suppose that's why
inter alia is so rarely used, and et al. is abbreviated in order to
avoid having to specify the gender.
Gary |
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Tron
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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Hi,
Thank you for taking the time.
"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> skrev i melding
news:VDD0f.8945$oO2.7815@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
| Quote: |
Well, I consider "amongst" to be a synonym of "among", and use both
when the
spirit moves me. Others may not like the "old-fashioned" sound of
"amongst", just as they would not like modern usage to include
"whilst,
amidst (even amid), learnt," etc.
|
OK, so it is a style variation, not a declination.
| Quote: | As to whether one could use either word to replace "such as" or
"including",
I would say "yes", but would want to give examples, since "such as
other
things" and "including other things" . . . well, let me take that
back. I
guess, just to vary the gathering or grouping word(s), I would use
these
others. Still, "such as others", to me, screams for a listing of
those
"others" of its ilk. It bears a weight of description or comparison,
you
see.
|
Well, as a non native speaker, it takes a rather extensive faux pas to
raise its voice to my attention level. Nuances merly whisper in the
darker corners of my lingustic subconsciousness.
What would be nice is the ability to say that "X comprises y, but it
comprises many more things".
To rephrase the question, is that one of the uses of "etc.", or would
that scream and shout?
T |
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Tor
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:37 am
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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"Tron" <tronfuru@frisurf.no> averred thusly in
news:FaD0f.372$Ti5.11764@news2.e.nsc.no:
| Quote: | I was thinking of .... "Philosophy of language discusses, among other,
issues like the concept of meaning." It doesn't look quite right ....
I ask because I'm not sure that the sentence "Philosophy of language
discusses issues like the concept of meaning, et cetera." expresses the
same, at least not always.
|
I don't think it is necessary to use "etc."
Try:
"Philosophy of language discusses issues such as the concept of meaning."
I think most English speakers would assume that "the concept of meaning" is
just one example of the issues that philosophy of language discusses. If
they're reading a paper on the philosophy of language, they should have
enough intelligence to assume that.
Peace,
Tor
--
Bored? Check out Tor's Rants!
A Left-Libertarian's take on Life (kitty-cats and fixing cars),
the Universe (Maine) and Nothing (Politics).
http://torsrants.blogspot.com |
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Tron
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:41 am
Post subject: Re: Inter alia |
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Hi,
"Tor" <torofmaine@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:Xns96E6BD7F9790Ctorofmainehotmailcom@216.196.97.142...
| Quote: | I don't think it is necessary to use "etc."
Try:
"Philosophy of language discusses issues such as the concept of
meaning."
I think most English speakers would assume that "the concept of
meaning" is
just one example of the issues that philosophy of language discusses.
If
they're reading a paper on the philosophy of language, they should
have
enough intelligence to assume that.
|
Thank you for this simple and elegant solution.
I don't, although I do, know why I didn't think of this </slamming head
on desk>.
Thanks a lot.
T |
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