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mia
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's goin?".
What's happening here?
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Roderick Stewart
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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In article <1128402871.600190.273900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Mia
wrote:
| Quote: | People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's goin?".
What's happening here?
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Slovenly pronunciation.
Rod. |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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On 04 Oct 2005, Roderick Stewart wrote
Dialect/idiomatic pronunciation.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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"mia" <myoungssi09@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128402871.600190.273900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's goin?".
What's happening here?
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You may have interpreted this backwards:
1. "How's goin?" is not a standard expression.
What people say is "How's it goin?"
2. The common element is "going." Some
people pronounce this word "goin." The correct
form (universal convention) in writing is "going."
3. Your generalization "People usually drop the
G" is not universally true. Some people (e.g.
northern English and in Brooklyn) pronounce
the word like GOINGK, others with the NG sound.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote in message
news:K9u0f.5119$5I2.19095@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
| Quote: | "mia" <myoungssi09@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128402871.600190.273900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's goin?".
What's happening here?
3. Your generalization "People usually drop the
G" is not universally true.
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???
Adrian |
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Roderick Stewart
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:14 am
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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In article <Xns96E5796E7B255whhvans@62.253.170.163>, Harvey Van Sickle
wrote:
It's not a variant, it's an omission. The letter is there, and should
be pronounced but is not. It's lazy. Or perhaps the speaker has never
seen the word written down.
Rod. |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:44 am
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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On 04 Oct 2005, Roderick Stewart wrote
| Quote: | In article <Xns96E5796E7B255whhvans@62.253.170.163>, Harvey Van
Sickle wrote:
In article
1128402871.600190.273900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Mia
wrote:
People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's
goin?". What's happening here?
Slovenly pronunciation.
Dialect/idiomatic pronunciation.
It's not a variant, it's an omission. The letter is there, and
should be pronounced but is not. It's lazy. Or perhaps the speaker
has never seen the word written down.
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Your mileage clearly varies to mine.
The end sound entirely changes when the 'g' is not there: "n'"
represents an entirely different sound to "ng-without-the-g", and is
therefore a variant, not an omission.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:49 am
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.nospam.plus.com> wrote in message
news:VA.00000c2f.0351a120@escapetime.nospam.plus.com...
| Quote: | In article <Xns96E5796E7B255whhvans@62.253.170.163>, Harvey Van Sickle
wrote:
In article
1128402871.600190.273900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Mia
wrote:
People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's
goin?". What's happening here?
Slovenly pronunciation.
Dialect/idiomatic pronunciation.
It's not a variant, it's an omission. The letter is there, and should
be pronounced but is not. It's lazy. Or perhaps the speaker has never
seen the word written down.
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Or maybe one doesn't wish to sound like a pedant, trying to prove one knows
the spelling, regardless of local pronunciations.
La Di Da. |
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Roderick Stewart
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:04 am
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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In article <DFD0f.8946$oO2.3889@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's
goin?". What's happening here?
Slovenly pronunciation.
Dialect/idiomatic pronunciation.
It's not a variant, it's an omission. The letter is there, and should
be pronounced but is not. It's lazy. Or perhaps the speaker has never
seen the word written down.
Or maybe one doesn't wish to sound like a pedant, trying to prove one knows
the spelling, regardless of local pronunciations.
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Define "local" in a situation where some people pronounce a word as written,
while others *in the same location* do not.
Rod. |
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Robert Lieblich
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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Roderick Stewart wrote:
[ ... ]
| Quote: | Define "local" in a situation where some people pronounce a word as written,
while others *in the same location* do not.
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Define "pronounce a word as written," with specific reference to
"colonel," "often," and "phthisis."
--
Bob Lieblich
It's all relative |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.nospam.plus.com> wrote in message
news:VA.00000c31.002a90e9@escapetime.nospam.plus.com...
| Quote: | In article <DFD0f.8946$oO2.3889@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, Pat Durkin
wrote:
People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's
goin?". What's happening here?
Slovenly pronunciation.
Dialect/idiomatic pronunciation.
It's not a variant, it's an omission. The letter is there, and should
be pronounced but is not. It's lazy. Or perhaps the speaker has never
seen the word written down.
Or maybe one doesn't wish to sound like a pedant, trying to prove one
knows
the spelling, regardless of local pronunciations.
Define "local" in a situation where some people pronounce a word as
written,
while others *in the same location* do not.
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In addition to replying to Bob's question, would you please define whom you
would include "in the same location", if some of those people have a
different pronunciation.
(I know it can happen, but, as I stated, one might be demonstrating
pedantry. I would add. . .a snobbishness or class consciousness. Or maybe
the speaker is a newcomer, or just passing through.) |
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JPG
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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On 3 Oct 2005 22:14:31 -0700, "mia" <myoungssi09@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | People usally drop "g" in the expression "ing" , like "how's goin?".
What's happening here?
|
They don't actually drop the 'g', they substitute the 'ng' consonant for the 'n'
consonant.
In 'singer' the fully voiced nasal plosive 'ng' is used, whereas in 'finger' the
fully voiced nasal plosive 'n' is followed by the voiced velar plosive 'g'.
Mouth them to yourself and note the difference in tongue position etc.
JPG |
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Roderick Stewart
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:45 am
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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In article <43438D65.547BAE5B@verizon.net>, Robert Lieblich wrote:
| Quote: | Define "local" in a situation where some people pronounce a word as written,
while others *in the same location* do not.
Define "pronounce a word as written," with specific reference to
"colonel," "often," and "phthisis."
|
These words are not supposed to be pronounced as written. Some are. In
particular, the ones under discussion which end in "-ng". Some people pronounce
the "-ng" ending as written, and others pronounce it as a simple "n" sound. It
doesn't seem to be a matter of "local pronunciation" as has been suggested,
because the preference is not related to particular places, but to particular
people. In other words, some people pronounce them correctly and some don't.
Rod. |
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Robert Lieblich
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:12 am
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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Roderick Stewart wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <43438D65.547BAE5B@verizon.net>, Robert Lieblich wrote:
Define "local" in a situation where some people pronounce a word as written,
while others *in the same location* do not.
Define "pronounce a word as written," with specific reference to
"colonel," "often," and "phthisis."
These words are not supposed to be pronounced as written.
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Of course they are. Why else does almost every native speaker,
confronted with "colonel," say something that can also be written as
"kernel"? They know what that combination of letters is supposed to
sound like. Why do so many native speakers see "i.e." and say "that
is"? If you acknowledge the existence of "silent" letters, both
"often" and "phthisis" are pronounced as written; they just happen to
be written with silent letters. (If you don't acknowledge the
existence of silent letters, you're outlawing the standard
pronunciations of those two words -- unless you realize that something
other than sounding out the letters is going on.)
All are. Writing, particularly in the case of English, is an
"approximation" of the sound of the spoken language, not an exact
transcription, and you can't assume that a given set of letters sounds
like what you may first think it does. We have to teach children a
whole bunch of what we call "exceptions." Englishis notorious for eye
rhymes like cough/tough/bough/dough/through (which one of those is
pronounced as written?) and just plain eccentricities, of which
"colonel" is a particularly ripe example but hardly the only one.
| Quote: | In
particular, the ones under discussion which end in "-ng". Some people pronounce
the "-ng" ending as written, and others pronounce it as a simple "n" sound.
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Have you ever heard Katie Couric or Walter Cronkite pronounce a
multisyllabic word ending in "ing"? See if you can find an example.
You may be surprised.
| Quote: | It
doesn't seem to be a matter of "local pronunciation" as has been suggested,
because the preference is not related to particular places, but to particular
people.
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I'm no expert on dialects, but in the US the "dropped g" prounuciation
(I'm using your label, even though it's imprecise) is characteristic
of the American South. I don't know how "local" is "local," and the
great mobility of the American populace has done enough intermixing of
people with differing dialects that it's no longer possible to
separate the "dropped g" localities from the others -- it's hardly red
state v. blue state. Nevertheless, knowing where a native speaker of
American English lived when learning the language is an excellent
predictor of how that person will pronounce "ing".
| Quote: | In other words, some people pronounce them correctly and some don't.
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I think you think you're saying something when you use the word
"correctly" when discussing the pronunciation of "ing." I think
you're wrong. Is someone who says "cole-oh-nell" when confronted with
"colonel" pronouncing the word correctly?
--
Bob Lieblich
Who knows just enough to be dangerous |
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Roderick Stewart
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Why do they drop "g" ? |
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In article <43445DC4.15E84BFB@verizon.net>, Robert Lieblich wrote:
| Quote: | Define "pronounce a word as written," with specific reference to
"colonel," "often," and "phthisis."
These words are not supposed to be pronounced as written.
Of course they are. Why else does almost every native speaker,
confronted with "colonel," say something that can also be written as
"kernel"? They know what that combination of letters is supposed to
sound like.
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Of course they do. They know that some words are not supposed to be pronounced as
written, while most are. What I mean by this is that although the letters of the
alphabet have defined sounds, and words are built from these, sometimes we don't
pronounce all the sounds. Perhaps I could have said "phonetically" instead of "as
written". Would you have been happier with that choice of words?
| Quote: | I think you think you're saying something when you use the word
"correctly" when discussing the pronunciation of "ing." I think
you're wrong. Is someone who says "cole-oh-nell" when confronted with
"colonel" pronouncing the word correctly?
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According to the OED, yes, which means that people who pronounce it otherwise are
wrong. I don't understand the difficulty you seem to be having with the concept of
an accepted right way and a wrong way to do something.
If an entire population from one geographical region pronounce something in the same
way as each other but differently from elsewhere, and have a historical precedent
for doing so, then that's a dialect, but if these is a recognised correct way of
pronouncing something and some do it differently, then they're wrong.
Rod. |
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