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meeso
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:49 am
Post subject: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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Hello to everyone,
I'd really appreicate it if someone could tell me what is the one
english word to describe the agricultural land owned by the church, and
surrounding it, in medieval Europe. However, I do not mean the
"churchyard", for the other land I am talking about was used for
agriculture and was considerably vast.
Most appreciatively,
--
Maysara Omar
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:53 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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meeso wrote:
| Quote: | Hello to everyone,
I'd really appreicate it if someone could tell me what is the one
english word to describe the agricultural land owned by the church,
and surrounding it, in medieval Europe. However, I do not mean the
"churchyard", for the other land I am talking about was used for
agriculture and was considerably vast.
|
Glebe.
--
John Briggs |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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"meeso" <maysaraomar@yahoo.com.hk> wrote in message
news:1128109774.587001.324610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I'd really appreicate it if someone could tell me what is the one
english word to describe the agricultural land owned by the church, and
surrounding it, in medieval Europe. However, I do not mean the
"churchyard", for the other land I am talking about was used for
agriculture and was considerably vast.
|
You may find no such word in English (which was not
used for government purposes for nearly 300 years after
1066.) Demesne (from French/Latin) may meet your
requirement for the later period.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
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John Hall
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:03 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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In article <1128109774.587001.324610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
meeso <maysaraomar@yahoo.com.hk> writes:
| Quote: | I'd really appreicate it if someone could tell me what is the one
english word to describe the agricultural land owned by the church, and
surrounding it, in medieval Europe. However, I do not mean the
"churchyard", for the other land I am talking about was used for
agriculture and was considerably vast.
|
It could be "glebe", which the Concise Oxford Dictionary describes as:
"A piece of land serving as part of a clergyman's benefice and providing
income."
--
John Hall
"I don't even butter my bread; I consider that cooking."
Katherine Cebrian |
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meeso
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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Hello there, John Briggs and John Hall, and Thank you very much for the
word.
But "Glebe" seems to be particular to an "English" church, and at the
same time, not particular to the agrarian land.
Perhaps you will say maybe such a word does not exist, but I remember
reading it in a book that I unfortunately don't recall which one it
was, and its definition in a dictionary that I also do not recall which
one it was. The definition described the land as agricultural,
attributed its property to the church, and if I remember correctly, all
was in the medieval period. However, when I try to recall the sound of
that word, it feels quite far from the phonetics of "Glebe".
But anyway, I thank you very much for your help.
--
Maysara Omar |
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Liz
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:55 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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"meeso" wrote
| Quote: | But "Glebe" seems to be particular to an "English" church, and at the
same time, not particular to the agrarian land.
|
"Glebe (Lat. gleba) originally signified, in common law, any farm,
estate, or parcel of land, and the word is so used in the Theodosian Code.
But in ecclesiastical law it has become the technical term for land permanently
assigned for the maintenance of the incumbent of a parish, and is the
oldest form of parochial endowment. This use of the word is found in
numerous medieval charters, of which Du Cange gives a few examples,
and formerly no church could be consecrated unless thus endowed
with a house and glebe."
The Catholic Encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06582a.htm |
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bill ramsay
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:24 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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On 30 Sep 2005 14:00:52 -0700, "meeso" <maysaraomar@yahoo.com.hk>
wrote:
| Quote: | Hello there, John Briggs and John Hall, and Thank you very much for the
word.
But "Glebe" seems to be particular to an "English" church, and at the
same time, not particular to the agrarian land.
au contraire, my father lives in Galashiels, in the Scottish Borders, |
in Church Street, which backs on to the Glebe.
It's a very common name throughout Scotland, where you will not find
many English Kirks [as Anglican churches are called].
| Quote: | Perhaps you will say maybe such a word does not exist, but I remember
reading it in a book that I unfortunately don't recall which one it
was, and its definition in a dictionary that I also do not recall which
one it was. The definition described the land as agricultural,
attributed its property to the church, and if I remember correctly, all
was in the medieval period. However, when I try to recall the sound of
that word, it feels quite far from the phonetics of "Glebe".
But anyway, I thank you very much for your help. |
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meeso
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:04 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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How interesting it is to know about that. Thank you so much, Bill.
--
Maysara Omar |
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meeso
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:28 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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Thank you Liz, and all the rest of you, for all the words.
The following words were suggested:
Glebe, Demesne, and Manor.
And I'm starting to doubt whether "glebe" was the word I read, because
I asked elsewhere here and there with no different results. It was a
book about medieval Europe and it must had been a discription of some
*rural* "glebe". It must be the confusion that araises by reading from
many books at the same time, sorry! :-)
Again, thanks to all of you,
--
Maysara Omar |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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John Hall wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1128109774.587001.324610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
meeso <maysaraomar@yahoo.com.hk> writes:
I'd really appreicate it if someone could tell me what is the one
english word to describe the agricultural land owned by the church, and
surrounding it, in medieval Europe. However, I do not mean the
"churchyard", for the other land I am talking about was used for
agriculture and was considerably vast.
It could be "glebe", which the Concise Oxford Dictionary describes as:
"A piece of land serving as part of a clergyman's benefice and providing
income."
|
I was going to suggest the same word, but I remembered it was a
relatively small portion of land to support the clergyman.
Interestingly, it is cognate with Russian "hleb" (bread) and possibly
with "life".
--
Rob Bannister |
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:44 pm
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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Robert Bannister wrote:
| Quote: | John Hall wrote:
In article <1128109774.587001.324610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
meeso <maysaraomar@yahoo.com.hk> writes:
I'd really appreicate it if someone could tell me what is the one
english word to describe the agricultural land owned by the church,
and surrounding it, in medieval Europe. However, I do not mean the
"churchyard", for the other land I am talking about was used for
agriculture and was considerably vast.
It could be "glebe", which the Concise Oxford Dictionary describes
as: "A piece of land serving as part of a clergyman's benefice and
providing income."
I was going to suggest the same word, but I remembered it was a
relatively small portion of land to support the clergyman.
Interestingly, it is cognate with Russian "hleb" (bread) and possibly
with "life".
|
Which fits very well with the use of the word "living" to mean the office of
Rector.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man. |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:59 pm
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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On 30 Sep 2005 12:49:34 -0700, "meeso" <maysaraomar@yahoo.com.hk> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello to everyone,
I'd really appreicate it if someone could tell me what is the one
english word to describe the agricultural land owned by the church, and
surrounding it, in medieval Europe. However, I do not mean the
"churchyard", for the other land I am talking about was used for
agriculture and was considerably vast.
|
Glebe.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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"Robert Bannister" <robban@it.net.au> wrote in message
news:3q6anoFd271cU2@individual.net...
| Quote: | John Hall wrote:
In article <1128109774.587001.324610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
meeso <maysaraomar@yahoo.com.hk> writes:
I'd really appreicate it if someone could tell me what is the one
english word to describe the agricultural land owned by the church, and
surrounding it, in medieval Europe. However, I do not mean the
"churchyard", for the other land I am talking about was used for
agriculture and was considerably vast.
It could be "glebe", which the Concise Oxford Dictionary describes as:
"A piece of land serving as part of a clergyman's benefice and providing
income."
I was going to suggest the same word, but I remembered it was a relatively
small portion of land to support the clergyman. Interestingly, it is
cognate with Russian "hleb" (bread) and possibly with "life".
|
Its extent may vary. In the parish where I was brought up, the glebe land
was not all in one patch. My family rented one bit (about 2 acres) which was
nowhere near the church. At least, I suppose it was rented; my mother (who
did the books) referred to our payment as "tithes".
Alan Jones |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:01 pm
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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At 12:46:02 on Sat, 1 Oct 2005, Alan Jones <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
in <eyv%e.29723$VI6.1828@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>:
| Quote: | Its extent may vary. In the parish where I was brought up, the glebe land
was not all in one patch. My family rented one bit (about 2 acres) which was
nowhere near the church.
|
And this is how the incumbent would probably have received his "living"
- in rents from the glebe land. After all, he wouldn't have time to
farm it himself, or resources to hire a bailiff. Renting the land out
to tenants, however, would have produced a nice little income.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: medieval church's agricultural land? |
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Molly Mockford wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:46:02 on Sat, 1 Oct 2005, Alan Jones <atj@blueyonder.co.uk
wrote in <eyv%e.29723$VI6.1828@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>:
Its extent may vary. In the parish where I was brought up, the
glebe
land was not all in one patch. My family rented one bit (about 2
acres) which was nowhere near the church.
And this is how the incumbent would probably have received his
"living" - in rents from the glebe land. After all, he wouldn't
have
time to farm it himself, or resources to hire a bailiff. Renting
the
land out to tenants, however, would have produced a nice little
income.
|
Isn't it in _Tristram Shandy_ that we find a wonderful portrait of a
rustic parson who spends all his time on farming his glebe?
--
Mike. |
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