| Author |
Message |
Iain
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On 28 Sep 2005 08:06:21 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 07:05:05 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Lad" never means friend -- It always just means a common young man or
boy -- which is how the king sees his brother.
I wonder about this. If a person says "I'm going out with the lads",
isn't that person going out with his friends? Even if the friends are
common, they are still his friends and the meaning of his statement is
that he is going out with his chosen companions.
Yes, but that they are friends is circumstancial. They are lads whether
they are friends.
Wha? In that sentence, the fact that the friends are lads is
circumstantial. The primary meaning is that the person is going out
with friends. They are friends whether or not they are lads.
"That lad's an arsehole" is also normal.
"Lad" is mainly paternal. You mainly only ever call someone "my lad" if
you want to sound fatherly, or like a king talking to a silly wee boy,
like in TMITIM.
In the statement "All the lads were in the pub", the meaning could be
that the pub was full of yobbos or that all of the speaker's friends
were in the pub. No?
The friendship isn't indicated by "lad"; It's indicated by "the" as in
"all the gang" -- "gang" isn't friendly, but the fact that they need no
introductions suggests aquaintance.
I'm still not with you. The "the" doesn't mean anything. You can
substitute "my" or "his" and the meaning remains the same as far as
all the person's friends being in the pub.
You've stated that "lads" never means friends. I say it can and
sometimes does. I can't say that it can and does in your personal
lexicon, but I think it does in the lexicon of many.
|
Basically, "My lad" means something closer to "my son" than "my
friend".
~Iain
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Weatherlawyer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
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Don Phillipson wrote:
| Quote: | In a monarchy, the king cannot help condescending to every other character in
the story, since he is ipso facto top dog i.e. has no equals.
|
He has no peers?
Really?
He wouldn't last long with an attitude like that. The main problem with
a monarchy is that getting voted out of office can be a little abrupt.
If he wants to keep his head, he needs to surround himself with his
superiors.
He needs a champion for a bodyguard, a college of astute thinkers and
calculators, excellent architects and designers and a whole list of
"peerless" experts.
For actually kinging of course, he is the tops. |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
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|
On 28 Sep 2005 09:17:45 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Tony Cooper wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 08:06:21 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 07:05:05 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Lad" never means friend -- It always just means a common young man or
boy -- which is how the king sees his brother.
I wonder about this. If a person says "I'm going out with the lads",
isn't that person going out with his friends? Even if the friends are
common, they are still his friends and the meaning of his statement is
that he is going out with his chosen companions.
Yes, but that they are friends is circumstancial. They are lads whether
they are friends.
Wha? In that sentence, the fact that the friends are lads is
circumstantial. The primary meaning is that the person is going out
with friends. They are friends whether or not they are lads.
"That lad's an arsehole" is also normal.
"Lad" is mainly paternal. You mainly only ever call someone "my lad" if
you want to sound fatherly, or like a king talking to a silly wee boy,
like in TMITIM.
In the statement "All the lads were in the pub", the meaning could be
that the pub was full of yobbos or that all of the speaker's friends
were in the pub. No?
The friendship isn't indicated by "lad"; It's indicated by "the" as in
"all the gang" -- "gang" isn't friendly, but the fact that they need no
introductions suggests aquaintance.
I'm still not with you. The "the" doesn't mean anything. You can
substitute "my" or "his" and the meaning remains the same as far as
all the person's friends being in the pub.
You've stated that "lads" never means friends. I say it can and
sometimes does. I can't say that it can and does in your personal
lexicon, but I think it does in the lexicon of many.
Basically, "My lad" means something closer to "my son" than "my
friend".
"My lad", as in "Look, my lad, I'll buy you a treat later" is |
different from "My lads" in the sentence in "All my lads were in the
pub". I understand that.
"My lad", with the meaning of "my son" or "my young friend" is not
unheard of in usage in the US. Not common, but not unheard of. "My
lads were in the..." would be not only uncommon, but extremely rare.
I'd say "never heard", but I try to avoid "never" whenever possible.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
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Michael DeBusk
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:23 pm
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
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On 28 Sep 2005 03:46:49 -0700, Iain <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Do any Americans care to comment on their familiarity with the word?
|
I've never heard "lad" in the wild. (AmE)
--
Michael DeBusk, Co-Conspirator to Make the World a Better Place
Did he update http://home.earthlink.net/~debu4335/ yet? |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:42 am
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
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|
On 28 Sep 2005 10:11:40 -0700, "Weatherlawyer"
<Weatherlawyer@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Don Phillipson wrote:
In a monarchy, the king cannot help condescending to every other character in
the story, since he is ipso facto top dog i.e. has no equals.
He has no peers?
Really?
He wouldn't last long with an attitude like that. The main problem with
a monarchy is that getting voted out of office can be a little abrupt.
If he wants to keep his head, he needs to surround himself with his
superiors.
He needs a champion for a bodyguard, a college of astute thinkers and
calculators, excellent architects and designers and a whole list of
"peerless" experts.
For actually kinging of course, he is the tops.
|
There can be a sudden change in status from "tops" to "topped".
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:25 am
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
|
|
"Weatherlawyer" <Weatherlawyer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127927500.371471.290410@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | In a monarchy, the king cannot help condescending to every other
character in
the story, since he is ipso facto top dog i.e. has no equals.
He has no peers?
Really?
He wouldn't last long with an attitude like that.
|
You probably overlooked that our context was
the French monarchy in the 17th century. Most
French kings over 700+ years lasted quite long
whatever their personal attitudes. Weatherlawyer's
attitude was known as lèse-majesté, then a crime.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
|
|
"Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127924133.877718.313170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I'll simplify -- The person you go out with is your friend, so yes,
"going out with the lads" does imply friendship, but it is not because
of "lad", except, of course, that the mere fact that you are using a
slangish word indicates a light hearted topic.
|
What makes you suppose lad and lads are slangish?
They used not to be, cf. abundant use in poetry from
Shakespeare to Houseman.
| Quote: | "My lad" means something closer to "my son" than "my
friend".
|
Why should we suppose this true either? Most uses for
the last 400 years seem to mean simply my boy, cf. my
girl, my lady, and so on.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:37 pm
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
|
|
Iain wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 08:06:21 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 07:05:05 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Lad" never means friend -- It always just means a common young
man or boy -- which is how the king sees his brother.
I wonder about this. If a person says "I'm going out with the
lads", isn't that person going out with his friends? Even if
the
friends are common, they are still his friends and the meaning
of
his statement is that he is going out with his chosen
companions.
Yes, but that they are friends is circumstancial. They are lads
whether they are friends.
Wha? In that sentence, the fact that the friends are lads is
circumstantial. The primary meaning is that the person is going
out
with friends. They are friends whether or not they are lads.
"That lad's an arsehole" is also normal.
"Lad" is mainly paternal. You mainly only ever call someone "my
lad" if you want to sound fatherly, or like a king talking to a
silly wee boy, like in TMITIM.
In the statement "All the lads were in the pub", the meaning
could
be that the pub was full of yobbos or that all of the speaker's
friends were in the pub. No?
The friendship isn't indicated by "lad"; It's indicated by "the"
as
in "all the gang" -- "gang" isn't friendly, but the fact that
they
need no introductions suggests aquaintance.
I'm still not with you. The "the" doesn't mean anything. You can
substitute "my" or "his" and the meaning remains the same as far
as
all the person's friends being in the pub.
You've stated that "lads" never means friends. I say it can and
sometimes does. I can't say that it can and does in your personal
lexicon, but I think it does in the lexicon of many.
Basically, "My lad" means something closer to "my son" than "my
friend".
|
That is, in simple terms, pretty well true. But most or even all of
the other things you say about the word are quite wrong.
--
Mike. |
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Iain
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:20 am
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Iain wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 08:06:21 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 07:05:05 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Lad" never means friend -- It always just means a common young
man or boy -- which is how the king sees his brother.
I wonder about this. If a person says "I'm going out with the
lads", isn't that person going out with his friends? Even if
the
friends are common, they are still his friends and the meaning
of
his statement is that he is going out with his chosen
companions.
Yes, but that they are friends is circumstancial. They are lads
whether they are friends.
Wha? In that sentence, the fact that the friends are lads is
circumstantial. The primary meaning is that the person is going
out
with friends. They are friends whether or not they are lads.
"That lad's an arsehole" is also normal.
"Lad" is mainly paternal. You mainly only ever call someone "my
lad" if you want to sound fatherly, or like a king talking to a
silly wee boy, like in TMITIM.
In the statement "All the lads were in the pub", the meaning
could
be that the pub was full of yobbos or that all of the speaker's
friends were in the pub. No?
The friendship isn't indicated by "lad"; It's indicated by "the"
as
in "all the gang" -- "gang" isn't friendly, but the fact that
they
need no introductions suggests aquaintance.
I'm still not with you. The "the" doesn't mean anything. You can
substitute "my" or "his" and the meaning remains the same as far
as
all the person's friends being in the pub.
You've stated that "lads" never means friends. I say it can and
sometimes does. I can't say that it can and does in your personal
lexicon, but I think it does in the lexicon of many.
Basically, "My lad" means something closer to "my son" than "my
friend".
That is, in simple terms, pretty well true. But most or even all of
the other things you say about the word are quite wrong.
|
As a Scotsman I took DiCaprio's "my lad" to be sarcastically paternal
rather than sarcastically friendly.
The other thing I have said about the word is that it is its
informality that makes it friendly, rather than its denotation, which
simply means "young man of common stock".
That's what make Bush's 9/11 speech "We're gonna get those folks" seem
so inappropriately playful to me.
~Iain |
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Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:37 am
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
|
|
Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On 28 Sep 2005 03:46:49 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
There's some usage in the Irish-American enclaves to mean a person
associated with the IRA, but this is an extremely specialized usage
here: "The lads are causing trouble again".
|
"the boys", Shirley?
--
WH |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: "Lad" in Hollywood |
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|
On 30 Sep 2005 16:37:10 -0700, william@lowerknowle.com wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 03:46:49 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com
There's some usage in the Irish-American enclaves to mean a person
associated with the IRA, but this is an extremely specialized usage
here: "The lads are causing trouble again".
"the boys", Shirley?
|
It was "the lads" in my family's references. "The boys" might be used
by sympathizers, but though my family is Catholic they had no sympathy
for the IRA.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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