| Author |
Message |
The Other Fran
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:15 am
Post subject: Documenting the origins of "pear-shaped" |
|
|
Today on "Newsradio" (Sydney) in Kel Richards' "Wordwatch" segment, the
subject of the origins of pear-shaped (meaning "going awry") was
raised.
Beforee posting, I did a quick search of these groups but while many
plausible theories were advanced (the results of imperfect glass
blowing techniques, drilling rivet holes off-centre, the shape of
post-menopausal women, or simply non-regular circles) none of these had
any documentary support.
{I'd always assumed it described the deformation of party balloons as
the plastic deteriorated)
Anyhow ...
Richards, relying on the OED reference, cited it as an RAF term, based
on the view that when performing aerobatic manoeuvres, perfect circles
are nearly impossible to achieve, and flight instructors would describe
the actual results as "pear-shaped".
The following reference is the earliest I could find:
*pear-shaped.
* Applied to something gone out of kilter,
wrong, out of control, as, when thunderstorms upset the
flying display at Duxford air show, 17 Jun. 1984, the
commentator apologised that the programme had 'gone all
pear-shaped'. (Barbara Huston.) A collapse from the
perfect sphere.
BBC's wordhunt says it was an RAF term in wide use (and the
commentator's observation above would seem to bear this out).
On the other hand, one would think that if the term were in wide use
prior to 1983, that someone would have written it down somewhere quite
a bit earlier. It's not as if programs and books about the RAF are in
short supply, and the use of RAF banter is something of a running joke
(there was a famous sequence in Monty Python years ago).
Are there any sources prior to 1983?
TOF
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Shaun aRe
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Documenting the origins of "pear-shaped" |
|
|
"The Other Fran" <fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127862944.719706.214820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Today on "Newsradio" (Sydney) in Kel Richards' "Wordwatch" segment, the
subject of the origins of pear-shaped (meaning "going awry") was
raised.
Beforee posting, I did a quick search of these groups but while many
plausible theories were advanced (the results of imperfect glass
blowing techniques, drilling rivet holes off-centre, the shape of
post-menopausal women, or simply non-regular circles) none of these had
any documentary support.
{I'd always assumed it described the deformation of party balloons as
the plastic deteriorated)
Anyhow ...
Richards, relying on the OED reference, cited it as an RAF term, based
on the view that when performing aerobatic manoeuvres, perfect circles
are nearly impossible to achieve, and flight instructors would describe
the actual results as "pear-shaped".
The following reference is the earliest I could find:
*pear-shaped.
* Applied to something gone out of kilter,
wrong, out of control, as, when thunderstorms upset the
flying display at Duxford air show, 17 Jun. 1984, the
commentator apologised that the programme had 'gone all
pear-shaped'. (Barbara Huston.) A collapse from the
perfect sphere.
BBC's wordhunt says it was an RAF term in wide use (and the
commentator's observation above would seem to bear this out).
On the other hand, one would think that if the term were in wide use
prior to 1983, that someone would have written it down somewhere quite
a bit earlier. It's not as if programs and books about the RAF are in
short supply, and the use of RAF banter is something of a running joke
(there was a famous sequence in Monty Python years ago).
Are there any sources prior to 1983?
TOF
|
ITYWF it was originally in regard to apples specifically this: - There was a
kind of blight common to certain traditional English varieties, prevalent a
couple of centuries ago thereabouts, that caused the apples in effected
trees to grow stunted and deformed, having small fruit bodies and an 'outy'
navel, rather than the usual 'inny' apples are known for: John and Joe, two
apple growers, down at the local pub early in the season:
"Hey Joe, how goes your crop this season?"
"Ohhh John, 'tis going afoul - all my apples have gone an' went
pear-shaped!"
HTH.
Shaun aRe - It was of course a West Country thing mostly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Other Fran
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:31 am
Post subject: Re: Documenting the origins of "pear-shaped" |
|
|
Shaun aRe wrote:
| Quote: | "The Other Fran" <fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127862944.719706.214820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Today on "Newsradio" (Sydney) in Kel Richards' "Wordwatch" segment, the
subject of the origins of pear-shaped (meaning "going awry") was
raised.
Beforee posting, I did a quick search of these groups but while many
plausible theories were advanced (the results of imperfect glass
blowing techniques, drilling rivet holes off-centre, the shape of
post-menopausal women, or simply non-regular circles) none of these had
any documentary support.
{I'd always assumed it described the deformation of party balloons as
the plastic deteriorated)
Anyhow ...
Richards, relying on the OED reference, cited it as an RAF term, based
on the view that when performing aerobatic manoeuvres, perfect circles
are nearly impossible to achieve, and flight instructors would describe
the actual results as "pear-shaped".
The following reference is the earliest I could find:
*pear-shaped.
* Applied to something gone out of kilter,
wrong, out of control, as, when thunderstorms upset the
flying display at Duxford air show, 17 Jun. 1984, the
commentator apologised that the programme had 'gone all
pear-shaped'. (Barbara Huston.) A collapse from the
perfect sphere.
BBC's wordhunt says it was an RAF term in wide use (and the
commentator's observation above would seem to bear this out).
On the other hand, one would think that if the term were in wide use
prior to 1983, that someone would have written it down somewhere quite
a bit earlier. It's not as if programs and books about the RAF are in
short supply, and the use of RAF banter is something of a running joke
(there was a famous sequence in Monty Python years ago).
Are there any sources prior to 1983?
TOF
ITYWF it was originally in regard to apples specifically this: - There was a
kind of blight common to certain traditional English varieties, prevalent a
couple of centuries ago thereabouts, that caused the apples in effected
trees to grow stunted and deformed, having small fruit bodies and an 'outy'
navel, rather than the usual 'inny' apples are known for: John and Joe, two
apple growers, down at the local pub early in the season:
"Hey Joe, how goes your crop this season?"
"Ohhh John, 'tis going afoul - all my apples have gone an' went
pear-shaped!"
HTH.
|
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/malay_apple.html
Maybe he was just lucky ...
TOF
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Other Fran
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Documenting the origins of "pear-shaped" |
|
|
William wrote:
| Quote: | The Other Fran wrote:
Today on "Newsradio" (Sydney) in Kel Richards' "Wordwatch" segment, the
subject of the origins of pear-shaped (meaning "going awry") was
raised.
[snip]
Are there any sources prior to 1983?
I recall watching a black-and-white film from the late fities / early
sixties (I can't be certain, but it was probably "The Captain's
Table"). Part of the plot revolves around a crew scam to sell sparkling
apple juice to the passengers as if it were champagne. One of the
conspirators refers to the plan going "pear shaped".
--
WH
|
This one?
|||||
Silly comedy based on author Richard Gordon's first book. Gordon is
best known as the creator of the 'Doctor' novels, some of which were
successfully filmed for the big screen between 1954 and 1970, as well
as spawning a seventies TV sitcom. 'The Captain's Table' is very much
in the same style: a few near-the-knuckle gags, lots of pretty
bikini-clad girls and a veritable host of old English stereotypes.
Naughty vicars, camp stewards, sexy popsies and batty old ladies
abound, but despite a super cast of comedy legends like Donald Sinden,
Richard Wattis, John LeMesurier and Miles Malleson, the movie lacks any
real fizz and fails to be even half as funny as its 'Doctor' cousins.
Lead actor John Gregson is no match for Dirk Bogarde or Leslie
Phillips, but Carry On star Joan Sims enlivens the proceedings with a
cute cameo as a frumpy spinster.
Worth a look, but don't expect too many hearty laughs.
|||||
Also known as "shenanighans".
TOF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
William
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Documenting the origins of "pear-shaped" |
|
|
The Other Fran wrote:
| Quote: | Today on "Newsradio" (Sydney) in Kel Richards' "Wordwatch" segment, the
subject of the origins of pear-shaped (meaning "going awry") was
raised.
[snip]
Are there any sources prior to 1983?
|
I recall watching a black-and-white film from the late fities / early
sixties (I can't be certain, but it was probably "The Captain's
Table"). Part of the plot revolves around a crew scam to sell sparkling
apple juice to the passengers as if it were champagne. One of the
conspirators refers to the plan going "pear shaped".
--
WH |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
William
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Documenting the origins of "pear-shaped" |
|
|
The Other Fran wrote:
| Quote: | Silly comedy based on author Richard Gordon's first book.
|
Yes, that's the one.
--
WH |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prai Jei
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Documenting the origins of "pear-shaped" |
|
|
The Other Fran (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<1127862944.719706.214820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
| Quote: | Today on "Newsradio" (Sydney) in Kel Richards' "Wordwatch" segment, the
subject of the origins of pear-shaped (meaning "going awry") was
raised.
Beforee posting, I did a quick search of these groups but while many
plausible theories were advanced (the results of imperfect glass
blowing techniques, drilling rivet holes off-centre, the shape of
post-menopausal women, or simply non-regular circles) none of these had
any documentary support.
|
The latest addition of "Maestro", the classical music magazine from Mensa,
carried a reference to "Three Pear-Shaped Pieces" (the conventional title
in English) written by the French composer Erik Satie. I queried the editor
about this, this is his reply.
<quote>
Erik Satie (1866-1925) named his piano pieces "Trois morceaux en form de
poire" in French, so I doubt he had the English language in mind when he
named them. He was just being silly, as ever. On the other hand, if he
foresaw the 1950s Royal Air Force, then his music was even more prophetic
than anyone imagined. I don't know how the phrase "it's all gone
pear-shaped" originated, meaning "it's all gone wrong", unless it means
"not streamlined" which is important for aerodynamics. One might think
that pear-shaped means bottom heavy, which implies a stable center of
gravity, so that can't be the origin. Of course we Yanks came up with our
own term: SNAFU = "Situation Normal, All Fouled Up" to put it politely.
</quote>
--
There are very few spiders found on bananas that bite.
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shaun aRe
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Documenting the origins of "pear-shaped" |
|
|
"The Other Fran" <fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128123076.138323.110710@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Shaun aRe wrote:
"The Other Fran" <fran_beta@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127862944.719706.214820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Today on "Newsradio" (Sydney) in Kel Richards' "Wordwatch" segment,
the
subject of the origins of pear-shaped (meaning "going awry") was
raised.
Beforee posting, I did a quick search of these groups but while many
plausible theories were advanced (the results of imperfect glass
blowing techniques, drilling rivet holes off-centre, the shape of
post-menopausal women, or simply non-regular circles) none of these
had
any documentary support.
{I'd always assumed it described the deformation of party balloons as
the plastic deteriorated)
Anyhow ...
Richards, relying on the OED reference, cited it as an RAF term, based
on the view that when performing aerobatic manoeuvres, perfect circles
are nearly impossible to achieve, and flight instructors would
describe
the actual results as "pear-shaped".
The following reference is the earliest I could find:
*pear-shaped.
* Applied to something gone out of kilter,
wrong, out of control, as, when thunderstorms upset the
flying display at Duxford air show, 17 Jun. 1984, the
commentator apologised that the programme had 'gone all
pear-shaped'. (Barbara Huston.) A collapse from the
perfect sphere.
BBC's wordhunt says it was an RAF term in wide use (and the
commentator's observation above would seem to bear this out).
On the other hand, one would think that if the term were in wide use
prior to 1983, that someone would have written it down somewhere quite
a bit earlier. It's not as if programs and books about the RAF are in
short supply, and the use of RAF banter is something of a running joke
(there was a famous sequence in Monty Python years ago).
Are there any sources prior to 1983?
TOF
ITYWF it was originally in regard to apples specifically this: - There
was a
kind of blight common to certain traditional English varieties,
prevalent a
couple of centuries ago thereabouts, that caused the apples in effected
trees to grow stunted and deformed, having small fruit bodies and an
'outy'
navel, rather than the usual 'inny' apples are known for: John and Joe,
two
apple growers, down at the local pub early in the season:
"Hey Joe, how goes your crop this season?"
"Ohhh John, 'tis going afoul - all my apples have gone an' went
pear-shaped!"
HTH.
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/malay_apple.html
Maybe he was just lucky ...
|
I doubt it - he was struck and killed by a car on his way back from the pub,
drunk.
Shaun aRe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in