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Blasius
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:57 pm
Post subject: Until - "popular etymology"? |
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A normally knowledgeable member of a Hungarian newsgroup
stated that the 'un-' in 'until' was a negative.
I refuted his assertion by explaining that the origin of 'un-' is the Indo-
European root 'ent-', meaning front, forehead, which is the
basis of words such as the Latin 'ante', the German 'Ende', etc.
The 'un-' in the word 'unhappy', on the other hand, goes back
to the Indo-European root 'ne' that is, indeed, a negative.
My interlocutor's reply was:
"Whatever is the case _synchronically_ or _diachronically_,
this is a negative here, *thanks to English popular etymology*.
(Emphasis by me.)"
(The text in question is a quote from a speech by Haile Selassie:
"...That until the colour of a man's skin is of no more
significance than the colour of his eyes;...
...the African continent will not know peace...")
My debating partner continued by saying, "If English
speakers had indeed sensed here the meaning 'up to',
then today 'a-' ('along' etc,) would be in the place of 'un-'
because this would be etymologically appropriate.
If, on the other hand, English speakers had not at all
interpreted it in any way, then now one would see 'in-'
instead, as is the case today in the Scandinavian languages
(and with good reason).
To me this sounds like a lot of nonsense. Am I wrong?
(English is not my native language, Hungarian is.)
Many thanks for any cogent comment.
Blasius
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:34 am
Post subject: Re: Until - "popular etymology"? |
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"Blasius" <george.waginger@telia.com> wrote in message
news:YIxXe.146615$dP1.502843@newsc.telia.net...
| Quote: | A normally knowledgeable member of a Hungarian newsgroup
stated that the 'un-' in 'until' was a negative.
I refuted his assertion by explaining that the origin of 'un-' is the
Indo-
European root 'ent-', meaning front, forehead, which is the
basis of words such as the Latin 'ante', the German 'Ende', etc.
The 'un-' in the word 'unhappy', on the other hand, goes back
to the Indo-European root 'ne' that is, indeed, a negative.
My interlocutor's reply was:
"Whatever is the case _synchronically_ or _diachronically_,
this is a negative here, *thanks to English popular etymology*.
(Emphasis by me.)"
(The text in question is a quote from a speech by Haile Selassie:
"...That until the colour of a man's skin is of no more
significance than the colour of his eyes;...
...the African continent will not know peace...")
My debating partner continued by saying, "If English
speakers had indeed sensed here the meaning 'up to',
then today 'a-' ('along' etc,) would be in the place of 'un-'
because this would be etymologically appropriate.
If, on the other hand, English speakers had not at all
interpreted it in any way, then now one would see 'in-'
instead, as is the case today in the Scandinavian languages
(and with good reason).
To me this sounds like a lot of nonsense. Am I wrong?
(English is not my native language, Hungarian is.)
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Indeed it is "a lot of nonsense" - ignorant ingenuity run riot.
In the Haile Selassie speech, "until" could, with not the slightest change
of meaning, be replaced by "till". How does he explain that? And what
reason has he for thinking that "English popular etymology" regards the
"un-" of "until" as a negative? As an Englishman I've never heard of such a
notion. How does he interpret the cited sentence if "until" is negative?
What does he think of words such as "under", "uncial" or "uncle"?
Alan Jones |
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Robert Lieblich
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:52 am
Post subject: Re: Until - "popular etymology"? |
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Blasius wrote:
| Quote: |
A normally knowledgeable member of a Hungarian newsgroup
stated that the 'un-' in 'until' was a negative.
I refuted his assertion by explaining that the origin of 'un-' is the Indo-
European root 'ent-', meaning front, forehead, which is the
basis of words such as the Latin 'ante', the German 'Ende', etc.
The 'un-' in the word 'unhappy', on the other hand, goes back
to the Indo-European root 'ne' that is, indeed, a negative.
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You are, of course, correct. Here are a couple of online citations
confirming your view:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/26/U0122600.html
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=until
The rest of your friend's argument, which isn't worth reproducing yet
again, is, as you said, nonsense. Alan Jones's point is irrefutable.
[ ... ]
| Quote: | Many thanks for any cogent comment.
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I can't live up to such a high standard, but I do my humble best.
--
Bob Lieblich
Unabashed
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