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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:51 am
Post subject: "like I who" |
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Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
I found the "like I who" construction rather jarring, especially since
I had never heard any of my friends use it (and believe me, I have
nerdy friends who make a point to use correct grammar). Regardless, I
now know it is the correct usage. My question is has "like me who,"
due to common usage, been accepted as a correct alternative here?
Thanks.
Andre
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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<amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126810309.253173.308000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
I found the "like I who" construction rather jarring, especially since
I had never heard any of my friends use it (and believe me, I have
nerdy friends who make a point to use correct grammar). Regardless, I
now know it is the correct usage. My question is has "like me who,"
due to common usage, been accepted as a correct alternative here?
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Yes (in British English, anyway). But the sentence you quote is not "the
correct usage". More correctly, your friend might have written "...so that
nerds such as I who make ..." but that wouldn't suit the informal context.
So "...like me who..." is appropriate, I think.
Old-fashioned or nerdy readers will have winced at your "due to common
usage", where we prefer "owing to", and also at "...make a point to use..."
instead of "...make a point of using...". One could also mention "My
question is has ..." where you might have written "My question is whether
'like me who' has been accepted..." with, of course, no question mark at the
end of the sentence.
Alan Jones |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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I guess I meant my friend's usage was not incorrect. I realize the
sentence was rather poorly constructed. As for the "My question is..."
sentence, I guess I was going for "My question is: has..." I can use a
colon there for a pause, right?
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Robert Lieblich
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:13 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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amb93@cornell.edu wrote:
| Quote: |
Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
I found the "like I who" construction rather jarring, especially since
I had never heard any of my friends use it (and believe me, I have
nerdy friends who make a point to use correct grammar). Regardless, I
now know it is the correct usage. My question is has "like me who,"
due to common usage, been accepted as a correct alternative here?
|
You have this exactly backwards. "Like I who" is wrong here. "Like"
is a preposition in usages like the one we're discussing, and as a
preposition it takes an object in the objective (accusative) case.
And the "who" that follows has nothing to do with it. Would you
actually write a sentence that said: "Please report your availability
to nerds like I"? If so, I suggest you stop doing so at once. "Like"
takes "me," not "I". (I'm sure someone can come up with a sentence in
which "I" correctly follows "like," but it won't be one of the type
we're discussing.)
Okay, so why is "like me" followed by "who" (subjective or nominative
case) and not "whom" (objective or accusative case)? There's a good
answer to that as well. The case of a relative pronoun used in a
subordinate clause comes from its function in the clause. In "nerds
like me who make playing board games a priority," "who" is the subject
of the subordinate clause of which it is the first word. If you have
a pronoun serving as an *object* in a subordinate clause, it's in the
objective case: "nerds like me whom all the other players respect."
Untangle that subordinate clause and it comes out "all the other
players respect whom." You wouldn't say "all the other players
respect he," so you shouldn't say "all the other players respect who"
or "who all the other players respect."[1]
So, in your example, it's "me" as the object of the preposition and
"who" as the subject of the subordinate clause: "nerds like me who
make playing ..." "Nerds like I" is wrong without regard to what
follows, and "whom make playing" would be wrong without regard to what
comes before. That means that only "like me who" is correct in
sentences like the example.
When Anita Loos wrote "A Girl Like I," she was parodying
hypercorrection, not reporting standard usage.
[1] There is a drift away from "whom" in such usages, but "whom"
remains the choice of traditional grammar.
--
Bob Lieblich
Idiom savant |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:37 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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Well, if what you say is correct, my intuition was good and I was right
to call out my friend. Mr. Jones's response above is a tab ambiguous
as to whether my friend was correct in the first place. Is there a
consensus then?
I find this group quite fascinating. I'll be sure to check in on it
regularly.
Thanks.
Andre |
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Gary Eickmeier
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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amb93@cornell.edu wrote:
| Quote: | I guess I meant my friend's usage was not incorrect.
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No - we do not say "like I."
Gary Eickmeier |
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ray o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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<amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126810309.253173.308000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
I found the "like I who" construction rather jarring, especially since
I had never heard any of my friends use it (and believe me, I have
nerdy friends who make a point to use correct grammar). Regardless, I
now know it is the correct usage. My question is has "like me who,"
due to common usage, been accepted as a correct alternative here?
Thanks.
Andre
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It's fine, it is readily understandable. That is the point of
communication. |
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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<amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126810309.253173.308000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
I found the "like I who" construction rather jarring, especially since
I had never heard any of my friends use it (and believe me, I have
nerdy friends who make a point to use correct grammar). Regardless, I
now know it is the correct usage.
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Ooooh no it ain't.
Adrian |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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<amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126831021.049568.4310@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Well, if what you say is correct, my intuition was good and I was right
to call out my friend. Mr. Jones's response above is a tab ambiguous
as to whether my friend was correct in the first place. Is there a
consensus then?
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Yes, there is a consensus: your friend was wrong, and "...like me who" is
acceptable -- indeed, as Bob Lieblich explained, the "me" form is required
after the preposition "like".
The only other point at issue is whether "like" is correct here, some very
old-fashioned writers preferring "as". You then need "I" ("...nerds such as
I [am]"), but that sounds ridiculously affected.
Alan Jones |
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Gary Eickmeier
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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ray o'hara wrote:
| Quote: | amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126810309.253173.308000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
I found the "like I who" construction rather jarring, especially since
I had never heard any of my friends use it (and believe me, I have
nerdy friends who make a point to use correct grammar). Regardless, I
now know it is the correct usage. My question is has "like me who,"
due to common usage, been accepted as a correct alternative here?
Thanks.
Andre
It's fine, it is readily understandable. That is the point of
communication.
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Just between you and I, me no agrees.
Gary Eickmeier |
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Pavel314
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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<amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126810309.253173.308000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
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It needs some commas or parentheses:
...so nerds like I, who make playing board games a top priority, can start
planning...
....so nerds like I (who make playing board games a top priority) can start
planning...
I'd also use "me" instead of "I".
Paul |
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Odysseus
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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Gary Eickmeier wrote:
| Quote: |
ray o'hara wrote:
amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126810309.253173.308000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
snip
It's fine, it is readily understandable. That is the point of
communication.
Just between you and I, me no agrees.
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Not myself neither.
Although the phrase is understandable with some effort, the
unexpected case trips one up as one searches for a different way to
parse the sentence. As Paul pointed out, the dearth of punctuation
certainly doesn't help.
--
Odysseus |
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JoeTaxpayer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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Odysseus wrote:
| Quote: | Gary Eickmeier wrote:
ray o'hara wrote:
amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126810309.253173.308000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
snip
It's fine, it is readily understandable. That is the point of
communication.
Just between you and I, me no agrees.
Not myself neither.
Although the phrase is understandable with some effort, the
unexpected case trips one up as one searches for a different way to
parse the sentence. As Paul pointed out, the dearth of punctuation
certainly doesn't help.
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I am asking, is a comma after the 'I' called for?
When I read the sentence, I pause at that point.
JOE |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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"JoeTaxpayer" <JoeTaxpayer@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:voydnfsajsVtH7DeRVn-3A@comcast.com...
| Quote: |
Odysseus wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
ray o'hara wrote:
amb93@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:1126810309.253173.308000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Recently, one of my friends wrote the following in an e-mail:
"So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
snip
It's fine, it is readily understandable. That is the point of
communication.
Just between you and I, me no agrees.
Not myself neither.
Although the phrase is understandable with some effort, the
unexpected case trips one up as one searches for a different way to
parse the sentence. As Paul pointed out, the dearth of punctuation
certainly doesn't help.
I am asking, is a comma after the 'I' called for?
When I read the sentence, I pause at that point.
JOE
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I would agree that a comma is needed before and after the "who. . .priority"
clause, whether you use I or me. (But I prefer "me".) |
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:04 am
Post subject: Re: "like I who" |
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"JoeTaxpayer" <JoeTaxpayer@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:voydnfsajsVtH7DeRVn-3A@comcast.com...
| Quote: | "So, send out your availability soon so nerds like I who make playing
board games a top priority can start planning the rest of next week
around the game."
I am asking, is a comma after the 'I' called for?
When I read the sentence, I pause at that point.
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You shouldn't.
Adrian |
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