| Author |
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Rab C Nesbitt - BT
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:42 pm
Post subject: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what date |
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Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter dated th
Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the expression
"
we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged.
"
Fuller context is
"
Thank you for pointing out this apparent anomaly and we endeavour to have
the matter further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may take some time but it
will be progressed.
"
What date would the assembled experts have guessed for such wording??? I
would have started 1910-ish, but having been 30 years in Computing am
ignorant on these matters: any guesses or references ??
Yours aye
Rab
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:41 pm
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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In article <dg9uek$oj4$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Rab C
Nesbitt - BT <rab_c_nesbittNOSPAM@btinternet.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter
dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the
expression " we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged. "
|
Obviously the writer thought "we are trying to find someone to look
into the matter" too plain.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/penny/1d-01.htm
Ayesha uttered a little Turkish yelp then upped her
voluminous skirts and downed her voluminous knickers |
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John Hall
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:49 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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In article <dg9uek$oj4$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
Rab C Nesbitt - BT <rab_c_nesbittNOSPAM@btinternet.com> writes:
| Quote: | Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter dated th
Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the expression
"
we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged.
"
Fuller context is
"
Thank you for pointing out this apparent anomaly and we endeavour to have
the matter further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may take some time but it
will be progressed.
"
What date would the assembled experts have guessed for such wording??? I
would have started 1910-ish, but having been 30 years in Computing am
ignorant on these matters: any guesses or references ??
|
It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make any
sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm sure that a
council employee in 1910 would have produced something more
comprehensible.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:15 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:42:12 +0000 (UTC), "Rab C Nesbitt -
BT" <rab_c_nesbittNOSPAM@btinternet.com> said:
| Quote: | Must share this - I have (really, really) just
received a letter dated th Sept 2005 from my
local council which contains the expression
"we will endeavour to have the matter further
envisaged."
Fuller context is
"Thank you for pointing out this apparent
anomaly and we endeavour to have the matter
further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may
take some time but it will be progressed."
What date would the assembled experts have
guessed for such wording??? I would have
started 1910-ish, but having been 30 years
in Computing am ignorant on these matters:
any guesses or references ??
|
I strongly doubt that any English user of any century would
have used English those ways. I suspect the text was
written by a non-native English speaker whose English usage
was still far from acceptable. |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:55 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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John Hall wrote:
| Quote: | In article <dg9uek$oj4$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
Rab C Nesbitt - BT <rab_c_nesbittNOSPAM@btinternet.com> writes:
Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter
dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the
expression "
we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged.
"
Fuller context is
"
Thank you for pointing out this apparent anomaly and we endeavour to
have the matter further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may take some
time but it will be progressed.
"
What date would the assembled experts have guessed for such
wording??? I would have started 1910-ish, but having been 30 years
in Computing am ignorant on these matters: any guesses or references
??
It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make any
sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm sure
that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something more
comprehensible.
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And wouldn't have said "it will be progressed."
--
John Briggs |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:07 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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At 20:55:58 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com>
wrote in <y70We.18015$Aa1.9642@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>:
| Quote: | John Hall wrote:
It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make any
sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm sure
that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something more
comprehensible.
And wouldn't have said "it will be progressed."
|
I suspect that around 1910 the passive voice would have ruled supreme.
"In reference to your letter of the 10th inst., the subject matter has
been noted and will receive our attention."
There would have been no advance apologies for delays - nobody would
have expected instant action anyway.
(And yes, I was - many decades ago - taught the usage of inst., ult. and
even prox. For those who weren't, they stand for "this month", "last
month" and "next month".)
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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John Hall wrote:
| Quote: | In article <dg9uek$oj4$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
Rab C Nesbitt - BT <rab_c_nesbittNOSPAM@btinternet.com> writes:
Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter
dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the
expression "
we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged.
"
Fuller context is
"
Thank you for pointing out this apparent anomaly and we endeavour to
have the matter further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may take some
time but it will be progressed.
"
What date would the assembled experts have guessed for such
wording??? I would have started 1910-ish, but having been 30 years
in Computing am ignorant on these matters: any guesses or references
??
It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make any
sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm sure
that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something more
comprehensible.
|
Modern gobbledygook for me too, and 'progressed' is not used in this
sense except by wafflers without knowledge, of the type that seems to
have written the notice. |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:16 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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At 21:41:48 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, David <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in
<4daa7520a7david@dacha.freeuk.com>:
| Quote: | In article <dg9uek$oj4$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Rab C
Nesbitt - BT <rab_c_nesbittNOSPAM@btinternet.com> wrote:
Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter
dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the
expression " we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged. "
Obviously the writer thought "we are trying to find someone to look
into the matter" too plain.
|
It's just occurred to me that "envisaged" is probably a spell-checker's
substitution for an incorrectly-spelled "investigated".
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:40 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:42:12 +0000 (UTC), "Rab C Nesbitt - BT"
<rab_c_nesbittNOSPAM@btinternet.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Thank you for pointing out this apparent anomaly and we endeavour to have
the matter further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may take some time but it
will be progressed.
|
Sounds to me like modern management-speak, with helpful input from the
Legal, Marketing and Human Resources departments.
Giles |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:43 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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Molly Mockford wrote:
| Quote: | At 20:55:58 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, John Briggs
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in
y70We.18015$Aa1.9642@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>:
John Hall wrote:
It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make
any sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm
sure that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something
more comprehensible.
And wouldn't have said "it will be progressed."
I suspect that around 1910 the passive voice would have ruled supreme.
"In reference to your letter of the 10th inst., the subject matter has
been noted and will receive our attention."
|
Yes, of course - but it was "progress" as a verb that I was objecting to.
--
John Briggs |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:00 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:43:17 GMT, "John Briggs"
<john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> said:
| Quote: | Molly Mockford wrote:
At 20:55:58 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, John Briggs
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in
y70We.18015$Aa1.9642@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>:
John Hall wrote:
It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make
any sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm
sure that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something
more comprehensible.
And wouldn't have said "it will be progressed."
I suspect that around 1910 the passive voice would have ruled supreme.
"In reference to your letter of the 10th inst., the subject matter has
been noted and will receive our attention."
Yes, of course - but it was "progress" as a verb that I was objecting to.
|
There's nothing wrong with using "progress" as a verb, as in
"The work is progressing nicely".
I suspect that what you really had in mind is an objection
to using "progress" as a transitive verb. Surprising to
see, though, the _New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_ has
the following definition of the verb "progress":
4 v.t. Cause (a situation, condition, etc.) to move
forward or improve; cause (work etc.) to proceed
towards completion; spec. (US) secure the passage of
(a bill) through a legislative body. E19.
They give the following examples for that meaning:
4 _Marxism Today_ To progress the possibility of
women being represented.
_Landscape_ Every endeavour will be made to
progress your interest.
_Merriam-Webster's Unabridged Dictionary_ has
progress
transitive verb
[...]
2 : to cause to progress : push forward :
ADVANCE <a really big housing program cannot
be successfully progressed _Americana Annual_> |
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Rab C Nesbitt - BT
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:53 am
Post subject: Re: "endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what |
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"Bob Cunningham" <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ir0hi1hqqp4t107qui9nrg479be2s005m8@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:42:12 +0000 (UTC), "Rab C Nesbitt -
BT" <rab_c_nesbittNOSPAM@btinternet.com> said:
Must share this - I have (really, really) just
received a letter dated th Sept 2005 from my
local council which contains the expression
"we will endeavour to have the matter further
envisaged."
Fuller context is
"Thank you for pointing out this apparent
anomaly and we endeavour to have the matter
further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may
take some time but it will be progressed."
What date would the assembled experts have
guessed for such wording??? I would have
started 1910-ish, but having been 30 years
in Computing am ignorant on these matters:
any guesses or references ??
I strongly doubt that any English user of any century would
have used English those ways. I suspect the text was
written by a non-native English speaker whose English usage
was still far from acceptable.
|
!! You may be right: It is possible this was written by a native Gaelic
speaker (being from Highlands of Scotland..). The "Manager" speaks with a
strong West-Highland accent, his assistant who e-mailed the letter (and I
guess probably wrote it..) is a xxx MxYyyyy.... |
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