| Author |
Message |
Robert Lieblich
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Uptalk |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:36:01 -0400, Robert Lieblich
robert.lieblich@verizon.net> wrote:
ray o'hara wrote:
"Robert Lieblich" <robert.lieblich@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:43277A1F.F2838A3E@verizon.net...
Weatherlawyer wrote:
.
Grow up, ray. Bouncing wisecracks off non-native speakers with honest
inquiries is bullying.
--
Bob Lieblich
Just trying to help
If you are implying weatherlawyer is me then you are sadly mistaken.
No, ray, I am not so implying. Please see my response to
Weatherlawyer about that.
I have
never posted under anything other than my own name.
I'm beginning to dislike you bob. Your kneejerk holier-than-thou attitude is
arrogance personified.
It's not kneejerk, ray. It's carefully thought out. If some guy asks
a perfectly straight question on topic for a particular newsgroup and
can't get a single decent answer in a period of more than 24 hours,
then some other guy ought to be allowed to point that out. The
practice of having fun at the expense of the inquirer when no one has
yet helped him is particularly offensive. If so observing makes me
holier-than-thou and arrogant, I plead guilty.
The OP, and the OT, was some guy asking how he could get his
girlfriend to stop using "upspeak", and wondering if he should
videotape a conversation and play it back to her.
Is it your feeling that a question like this should be met with
seriousness? Like Dear Abby meets Dr Ruth meets English Maven?
|
It's my feeling that I should remember who asked the question. The
question to which I am referring was asked not by the OP but by Ashok,
who wanted to know what "upspeak" was. That struck me as a legitimate
serious question, and somone named "Ashok" as a legitimate serious
inquirer. He got in reply only Weatherlawyer's snotty answer. There
have been other similar instances, and Weatherlawyer has not been the
only one with a snotty answer.
Please substitute "Ashok" for "OP" and try again. I'll pick up the
charge for the extra effort.
--
Bob Lieblich
Victim of his own sloppiness
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Uptalk |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:44:10 -0400, Robert Lieblich
<robert.lieblich@verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:36:01 -0400, Robert Lieblich
robert.lieblich@verizon.net> wrote:
ray o'hara wrote:
"Robert Lieblich" <robert.lieblich@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:43277A1F.F2838A3E@verizon.net...
Weatherlawyer wrote:
.
Grow up, ray. Bouncing wisecracks off non-native speakers with honest
inquiries is bullying.
--
Bob Lieblich
Just trying to help
If you are implying weatherlawyer is me then you are sadly mistaken.
No, ray, I am not so implying. Please see my response to
Weatherlawyer about that.
I have
never posted under anything other than my own name.
I'm beginning to dislike you bob. Your kneejerk holier-than-thou attitude is
arrogance personified.
It's not kneejerk, ray. It's carefully thought out. If some guy asks
a perfectly straight question on topic for a particular newsgroup and
can't get a single decent answer in a period of more than 24 hours,
then some other guy ought to be allowed to point that out. The
practice of having fun at the expense of the inquirer when no one has
yet helped him is particularly offensive. If so observing makes me
holier-than-thou and arrogant, I plead guilty.
The OP, and the OT, was some guy asking how he could get his
girlfriend to stop using "upspeak", and wondering if he should
videotape a conversation and play it back to her.
Is it your feeling that a question like this should be met with
seriousness? Like Dear Abby meets Dr Ruth meets English Maven?
It's my feeling that I should remember who asked the question. The
question to which I am referring was asked not by the OP but by Ashok,
who wanted to know what "upspeak" was. That struck me as a legitimate
serious question, and somone named "Ashok" as a legitimate serious
inquirer. He got in reply only Weatherlawyer's snotty answer. There
have been other similar instances, and Weatherlawyer has not been the
only one with a snotty answer.
Please substitute "Ashok" for "OP" and try again. I'll pick up the
charge for the extra effort.
|
I followed all of that. Even with in my diminished capacity I can
follow a thread of half-a-dozen posters or less. If you also followed
the thread, you will have noticed that I offered a smart-assed answer
to the OP on the OQ. If you read my reply (that's "redd" as the
august would say), it was directed to the original question and
questioner and not to Ashok's.
An answer that I don't have a smidgen of remorse over. My reply above
was to subtly point out that we don't owe serious answers to
bone-stupid questions. And, I do regard questions about how to
address one's girlfriend's irritating speech patterns to be
bone-stupid. Sublte, however, fits me like a size six pump.
I recognized Ashok's question as not being one from a native English
speaker and did not reply to it. Everyone knows that Elbonians don't
speak English as their firstest language.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Odysseus
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Uptalk |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:30:33 -0400, Robert Lieblich
robert.lieblich@verizon.net> said:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
[...]
Stop her watching Neighbours.
Whatever that means.
Doesn't the capitalization of "neighbours" clearly suggest
that it's the name of some performance, like a television
show, that can be watched? With that interpretation, "Stop
her watching Neighbours" seems to mean "Cause her to quit
watching the show 'Neighbours'".
If that is the correct interpretation, the meaning would
have been made clearer by putting "Neighbours" in quotes,
but few posters to alt.usage.english punctuate properly.
|
I'd have used _italics_ myself; I'd use quotation marks for an
episode title. Likewise respectively for albums & songs, periodicals
& articles, or anthologies & stories.
--
Odysseus
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Uptalk |
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On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:48:03 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:44:10 -0400, Robert Lieblich
robert.lieblich@verizon.net> wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:36:01 -0400, Robert Lieblich
robert.lieblich@verizon.net> wrote:
ray o'hara wrote:
"Robert Lieblich" <robert.lieblich@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:43277A1F.F2838A3E@verizon.net...
Weatherlawyer wrote:
.
Grow up, ray. Bouncing wisecracks off non-native speakers with honest
inquiries is bullying.
--
Bob Lieblich
Just trying to help
If you are implying weatherlawyer is me then you are sadly mistaken.
No, ray, I am not so implying. Please see my response to
Weatherlawyer about that.
I have
never posted under anything other than my own name.
I'm beginning to dislike you bob. Your kneejerk holier-than-thou attitude is
arrogance personified.
It's not kneejerk, ray. It's carefully thought out. If some guy asks
a perfectly straight question on topic for a particular newsgroup and
can't get a single decent answer in a period of more than 24 hours,
then some other guy ought to be allowed to point that out. The
practice of having fun at the expense of the inquirer when no one has
yet helped him is particularly offensive. If so observing makes me
holier-than-thou and arrogant, I plead guilty.
The OP, and the OT, was some guy asking how he could get his
girlfriend to stop using "upspeak", and wondering if he should
videotape a conversation and play it back to her.
Is it your feeling that a question like this should be met with
seriousness? Like Dear Abby meets Dr Ruth meets English Maven?
It's my feeling that I should remember who asked the question. The
question to which I am referring was asked not by the OP but by Ashok,
who wanted to know what "upspeak" was. That struck me as a legitimate
serious question, and somone named "Ashok" as a legitimate serious
inquirer. He got in reply only Weatherlawyer's snotty answer. There
have been other similar instances, and Weatherlawyer has not been the
only one with a snotty answer.
Please substitute "Ashok" for "OP" and try again. I'll pick up the
charge for the extra effort.
I followed all of that. Even with in my diminished capacity
|
I told you the capacity was diminished. Couldn't make up my mind if I
am in my diminished capacity or if my state is with diminished
capacity.
| Quote: | I can
follow a thread of half-a-dozen posters or less. If you also followed
the thread, you will have noticed that I offered a smart-assed answer
to the OP on the OQ. If you read my reply (that's "redd" as the
august would say), it was directed to the original question and
questioner and not to Ashok's.
An answer that I don't have a smidgen of remorse over. My reply above
was to subtly point out that we don't owe serious answers to
bone-stupid questions. And, I do regard questions about how to
address one's girlfriend's irritating speech patterns to be
bone-stupid. Sublte, however, fits me like a size six pump.
I recognized Ashok's question as not being one from a native English
speaker and did not reply to it. Everyone knows that Elbonians don't
speak English as their firstest language.
|
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Odysseus
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Uptalk |
|
|
Robert Lieblich wrote:
| Quote: |
ray o'hara wrote:
snip
I have
never posted under anything other than my own name.
I'm beginning to dislike you bob. Your kneejerk holier-than-thou attitude is
arrogance personified.
It's not kneejerk, ray. It's carefully thought out. If some guy asks
a perfectly straight question on topic for a particular newsgroup and
can't get a single decent answer in a period of more than 24 hours,
then some other guy ought to be allowed to point that out. The
practice of having fun at the expense of the inquirer when no one has
yet helped him is particularly offensive. If so observing makes me
holier-than-thou and arrogant, I plead guilty.
|
A small point of fact: unless one (or more) of the computers involved
has an incorrectly set clock, Weatherlawyer's remark followed Ashok's
question by less than four and a half hours, and you posted your
rebuke to the one -- with your answer to the other -- after a similar
interval. Considering the comparatively small posting volume here,
and that it sometimes takes messages several hours to percolate
through to everyone's news servers, that's reasonably prompt as I see
it. But that said, I'm generally in agreement with the above, the
matter of the timing in this particular case aside.
--
Odysseus |
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Weatherlawyer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Uptalk |
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ray o'hara wrote:
| Quote: | I'm beginning to dislike you bob. Your kneejerk holier-than-thou attitude is
arrogance personified.
|
But at least he uses bracketing underscores for book titles and names
of
newspapers, even though he doesn't like them.
I hope some day his limitations will be just a bad memory but I doubt
that I will live to see that day I care whether it is the bracketing
and underscores he dislikes or the book titles and newspapers.
That isn't arrogance is it?
Not that I care. |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:34 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Uptalk |
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On 15 Sep 2005 06:42:46 -0700, "Weatherlawyer"
<Weatherlawyer@hotmail.com> said:
| Quote: | ray o'hara wrote:
I'm beginning to dislike you bob. Your kneejerk
holier-than-thou attitude is arrogance personified.
But at least he uses bracketing underscores for book
titles and names of newspapers, even though he doesn't
like them.
|
You seem to be getting your "Bob"s mixed up. The O'Hara
person's petulant comment ( http://tinyurl.com/8ffu2 ) was
in response to Bob Lieblich, who has probably said nothing
about not liking book titles and names of newspapers. |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:59 pm
Post subject: "snotty" [was: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Upt |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:44:10 -0400, Robert Lieblich
<robert.lieblich@verizon.net> said:
| Quote: | He got in reply only Weatherlawyer's snotty answer.
There have been other similar instances, and
Weatherlawyer has not been the only one with a snotty
answer.
|
It's too bad "snotty", with its disgusting literal meaning,
is so often used where there are* a wealth of less repellent
synonyms to choose from. _Webster's New World Thesaurus_
cross references "rude 2" as a source of synonyms for
"snotty", where the following list appears. Of all the
choices, I like "insolent" best as a less distasteful
replacement for "snotty":
======== Begin excerpt from _WNWT_ ========
rude
2. [Not polite] — Syn. impolite, discourteous,
ill-mannered, uncivil, churlish, sullen, surly, sharp,
harsh, gruff, brusque, blunt, abrupt, tactless, curt, short,
snappish, snarling, ungracious, unkind, ungentle, truculent,
crabbed, sour, disdainful, unmannerly, improper, shabby,
ill-chosen, ungentlemanly, fresh, abusive, forward, loud,
loud-mouthed, boorish, bold, brazen, audacious, brash,
arrogant, supercilious, blustering, crass, raw, saucy,
impudent, pert, unabashed, contumelious, sharp-tongued,
mocking, barefaced, insolent, impertinent, offensive,
uncalled-for, vituperative, naughty, hostile, insulting,
nasty, disrespectful, scornful, flippant, presumptuous,
sarcastic, defiant, outrageous, imperious, swaggering,
disparaging, contemptuous, unfeeling, insensitive, scoffing,
scurrilous, disagreeable, domineering, overbearing,
high-handed, self-assertive, brutal, severe, hard, cocky,
bullying, cheeky, nervy, assuming, dictatorial, magisterial,
officious, meddling, intrusive, meddlesome, acrimonious,
bitter, uncivilized, ill-tempered, bad-tempered, snippy*,
sassy*, flip*, snotty*, snooty*, brassy*, uppity*, crusty*,
bold as brass*. — Ant. POLITE, courteous, mannerly.
======== End excerpt from _WNWT_ ========
* Yes, "are". In my sentence "wealth" is a collective noun
used in a plural sense. |
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Odysseus
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: How to Reduce Girlfriend's Upspeak or Uptalk |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: |
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:57:30 GMT, Odysseus
odysseus1479-at@yahoo-dot.ca> said:
snip
I'd have used _italics_ myself;
I would, too, if they were available in an ASCII
environment. Absent italics, we're forced to choose between
bracketing underscores and quotation marks. Either of them
would do, but quotation marks seem less likely to distract
the reader's attention. But I think you're right, strictly
speaking the name of a television show should be punctuated
with bracketing underscores in this ASCII environment.
I find it significant that when I type a string with
bracketing underscores in Word, the string is immediately
converted to italics with no delimiters.
|
That's convenient; is there any way of making it do the converse?
| Quote: | I'd use quotation marks for an
episode title. Likewise respectively for albums & songs, periodicals
& articles, or anthologies & stories.
I use bracketing underscores for book titles and names of
newspapers, but I don't like them. I hope some day the
present limitations will be just a bad memory, but I doubt
that I will live to see that day.
|
There are many discussion groups with Web interfaces that support
HTML formatting, but Usenet conventions generally respect the 'lowest
common denominator' of plain text. In one of the groups I read,
humanities.classics, some contributors use Unicode to post in Greek;
my system here at home won't display such text correctly, and from
work my usual newsreader (MT-NewsWatcher) doesn't either, making me
switch to another (Mozilla Thunderbird) in order to read it.
--
Odysseus |
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