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Message |
Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:13 pm
Post subject: Minutiae! |
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I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Nick
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Nick spake thusly:
| Quote: | I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? 
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Perhaps you'd better tell us what you consider to be the "correct"
pronunciation, and why.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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On 30 Aug 2005 02:13:06 -0700, "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Interesting question. The suggestion that there is a "correct" way to |
pronounce any word is likely to provoke several aeu-ers.
It is possible that your concerns centre on the pronounciation of "ti"
and "ae".
I pronounce "ae" as "eye". This is a result of Latin lessons in the
1950s.
I pronounce "ti" as "sh" sometimes followed by more or less of an "ee"
sound. This is *not* the result of Latin lessons. My Latin teacher would
have insisted on "ti" being pronounced "tee", giving "tee-eye" for
"tiae". I understand that liturgical Latin would have it as "tsee-ay"
(as in "hay").
What are your preferences?
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u)
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Per Henneberg Kristensen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to?
|
No way :)
What does it mean?
--
Per, Esbjerg (Denmark) |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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"Per Henneberg Kristensen" <phk_fjern_@esenet.dk> wrote in message
news:431448df$0$76407$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk...
| Quote: |
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
No way :)
What does it mean?
|
Very small and perhaps insignificant details (it's plural).
It isn't (singular or plural) in Lewis & Short; evidently it isn't a
classical Latin word. If it's derived from "minutus", it ought perhaps to be
neuter plural "minuta" - little things. I couldn't find any indication of
where the second i came from, or why it's feminine plural.
Anyway, the first i is short in words like "minutus", so I suppose in
English we ought to say "min-" rather than "mine-" (but NSOED offers the
long version, too). As Peter Duncanson points out, there are at least three
accepted ways of pronouncing Latin: what's supposed to be the classical
Roman way, the several variants of this in church Latin, and the fully
anglicised version familiar from legal terminology and tags and to some
extent from medicine. These would give respectively and approximately
"min-oot-ee-eye", "min-oo-tsee-ay", and "min-you-she-ee". Peter uses a
mixture, and so do I. "There are nine and sixty ways/Of constructing tribal
lays,/And every single one of them is right". It will be interesting to
learn what Nick thinks is correct, and more particularly why he thinks so.
Alan Jones |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:27:26 GMT, "Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: | Anyway, the first i is short in words like "minutus", so I suppose in
English we ought to say "min-" rather than "mine-" (but NSOED offers the
long version, too).
|
The "mine-" pronunciation of "minutiae" has the possible justification
that it matches the first syllable of the close relative "minute"
(adjective: very small).
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
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ray o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Nick
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I've always heard it as minu sha. But as always, the devil is in the
details. |
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Nick wrote:
| Quote: | I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to?
|
You have a perverse idea of correct pronunciation. If you are the only
one who uses the "correct pronunciation," then you have an
idiosyncratic and *incorrect* pronunciation. There happens to be no
"correct" pronunciation. Combinations of all of the following are
acceptable, among others:
<mi> <nu> <tiae>
maI 'nju: Si:
mI 'nu: SIi:
m@ SaI
tIi:
iIaI
Oxford opts for (using VI for aI/
mI'nju,SIi: or mVI'nju,SIi: (COD)
to which SOED adds
mI'nju,SIVI or mVI'nju,SIVI
[OED, which likes mI'nju,SIi:, tells us that 'minutias' also exists as a
plural]
Now tell us, what is your choice and what is your ground for asserting
that it is correct and others are not? |
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CDB
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OgYQe.62306$Il.36193@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| Quote: |
"Per Henneberg Kristensen" <phk_fjern_@esenet.dk> wrote in message
news:431448df$0$76407$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk...
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
No way :)
What does it mean?
Very small and perhaps insignificant details (it's plural).
It isn't (singular or plural) in Lewis & Short; evidently it isn't a
classical Latin word. If it's derived from "minutus", it ought
perhaps to be neuter plural "minuta" - little things. I couldn't
find any indication of where the second i came from, or why it's
feminine plural.
|
My old Cassell's gives "minutia" as "smallness, littleness", and says
it's in Seneca. I suppose the plural meaning "small details" may be a
later usage.
[good survey of alternatives snipped]
I think a finicking word like this one deserves to be pronounced as
finically as possible: /mIn'jusI?i:/. |
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Odysseus
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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CDB wrote:
| Quote: |
snip
My old Cassell's gives "minutia" as "smallness, littleness", and says
it's in Seneca. I suppose the plural meaning "small details" may be a
later usage.
[good survey of alternatives snipped]
I think a finicking word like this one deserves to be pronounced as
finically as possible: /mIn'jusI?i:/.
|
Why /s/?
--
Odysseus |
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Alan OBrien
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to?
|
I was taught to say it by the great Danny Baker. It is a bit like this:
min-oo-shee. |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Alan OBrien wrote:
| Quote: | "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
I was taught to say it by the great Danny Baker. It is a bit like this:
min-oo-shee.
~ |
That's it, with an extra 'ee'! :-)
Nick |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Nick spake thusly:
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Perhaps you'd better tell us what you consider to be the "correct"
pronunciation, and why.
--
~ |
min NEW shee ee - my 4 dictionaries! :-)
Nick |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | On 30 Aug 2005 02:13:06 -0700, "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote:
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Interesting question. The suggestion that there is a "correct" way to
pronounce any word is likely to provoke several aeu-ers.
It is possible that your concerns centre on the pronounciation of "ti"
and "ae".
I pronounce "ae" as "eye". This is a result of Latin lessons in the
1950s.
I pronounce "ti" as "sh" sometimes followed by more or less of an "ee"
sound. This is *not* the result of Latin lessons. My Latin teacher would
have insisted on "ti" being pronounced "tee", giving "tee-eye" for
"tiae". I understand that liturgical Latin would have it as "tsee-ay"
(as in "hay").
~ |
The "ae" as "eye" also features in 'formulae' - as you say - Latin
'for-mew-lie' English schools 'for-mew-lee". :-)
Nick |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Per Henneberg Kristensen wrote:
| Quote: | "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
No way :)
What does it mean?
~ |
Small details - spotted it in a Sherlock Holmes story - "Watson, I
cannot overemphasise the importance of minutiae!", IIRC.
Nick |
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