| Author |
Message |
the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Nick spake thusly:
| Quote: |
the Omrud wrote:
Nick spake thusly:
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Perhaps you'd better tell us what you consider to be the "correct"
pronunciation, and why.
min NEW shee ee - my 4 dictionaries! 
|
Ah, are you of the school which believes that English dictionaries
set the rules? You'll find that most folk here are of the opinion
that English dictionaries record actual usage.
FWIW I agree with your stress position (was that the point?) but I
disagree with your final vowel sound, and possibly with the sh/t
sound. I could say either
min-NEW-tee-aye or
min-NEW-shee-aye
aye as in "aye, aye, sir" - sounds exactly like I, the first person
singular.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Alan Jones wrote:
| Quote: | "Per Henneberg Kristensen" <phk_fjern_@esenet.dk> wrote in message
news:431448df$0$76407$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk...
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
No way :)
What does it mean?
Very small and perhaps insignificant details (it's plural).
It isn't (singular or plural) in Lewis & Short; evidently it isn't a
classical Latin word. If it's derived from "minutus", it ought perhaps to be
neuter plural "minuta" - little things. I couldn't find any indication of
where the second i came from, or why it's feminine plural.
Anyway, the first i is short in words like "minutus", so I suppose in
English we ought to say "min-" rather than "mine-" (but NSOED offers the
long version, too). As Peter Duncanson points out, there are at least three
accepted ways of pronouncing Latin: what's supposed to be the classical
Roman way, the several variants of this in church Latin, and the fully
anglicised version familiar from legal terminology and tags and to some
extent from medicine. These would give respectively and approximately
"min-oot-ee-eye", "min-oo-tsee-ay", and "min-you-she-ee". Peter uses a
mixture, and so do I. "There are nine and sixty ways/Of constructing tribal
lays,/And every single one of them is right". It will be interesting to
learn what Nick thinks is correct, and more particularly why he thinks so.
~ |
According to 'Chambers's Twentieth (!) Century Dictionary', 'The
Concise Oxford Dictionary', 'The Penguin Dictionary' AND 'Collins GEM
English Dictionary', it's pronounced -
'min' (some people, mostly British MPs, say MY!)
'new'
'she'
'ee'
SO, it *rhymes* with 'Bee Gee', 'weegee' or 'teepee'! :-)
Nick (in his own, or others' imagined, vernacular(s)!) |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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ray o'hara wrote:
| Quote: | "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Nick
I've always heard it as minu sha. But as always, the devil is in the
details.
~ |
<g>
Nick
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Martin Ambuhl wrote:
| Quote: | Nick wrote:
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
You have a perverse idea of correct pronunciation. If you are the only
one who uses the "correct pronunciation," then you have an
idiosyncratic and *incorrect* pronunciation.
~ |
LOL! Yep! - and *then* some! :-D
Nick (in his own, or others' imagined, vernacular(s)!) |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Nick spake thusly:
the Omrud wrote:
Nick spake thusly:
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Perhaps you'd better tell us what you consider to be the "correct"
pronunciation, and why.
min NEW shee ee - my 4 dictionaries! :-)
Ah, are you of the school which believes that English dictionaries
set the rules? You'll find that most folk here are of the opinion
that English dictionaries record actual usage.
FWIW I agree with your stress position (was that the point?) but I
disagree with your final vowel sound, and possibly with the sh/t
sound. I could say either
min-NEW-tee-aye or
min-NEW-shee-aye
aye as in "aye, aye, sir" - sounds exactly like I, the first person
singular.
--
~ |
<smiles> Nah! :-)
*My* way is the *right* way for the UK! :-D
*I* have SPOKEN! :-D
Nick (in his own, or others' imagined, vernacular(s)!) |
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CDB
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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"Odysseus" <odysseus1479-at@yahoo-dot.ca> wrote in message
news:4315394E.E0FB9FB7@yahoo-dot.ca...
| Quote: | CDB wrote:
snip
My old Cassell's gives "minutia" as "smallness, littleness", and
says
it's in Seneca. I suppose the plural meaning "small details" may
be a
later usage.
[good survey of alternatives snipped]
I think a finicking word like this one deserves to be pronounced as
finically as possible: /mIn'jusI?i:/.
Why /s/?
|
Reflecting a change that would have occurred (in French?) pretty early
on, cf. French "minutieux" (/-sj-/), or "astuce" from "astutia", or
any English word ending in "-tion" (/-S@n/). Since in my proposed
pronunciation of this word there's no assimilation of the "i" in "ti"
(/sj/ to /S/), it gets* to keep its /s/.
_________________________________
*Sorry, FRAN's schoolteachers. |
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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In alt.english.usage on 31 Aug 2005 02:17:30 -0700 "Nick"
<pacifico@btopenworld.com> posted:
| Quote: |
the Omrud wrote:
Nick spake thusly:
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Perhaps you'd better tell us what you consider to be the "correct"
pronunciation, and why.
--
~
min NEW shee ee - my 4 dictionaries!
|
What I think is interesting is that alumnae and alumni are pronounced
exactly backwards in secular Latin and English pronunciations.
s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
--
My English in this reply is colloquial, and may not always use full sentences.
For gosh sakes, when you ask a question, say what sort of English you are asking about.
When you give an answer, say in what part of the world you think your answer is valid.
If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years | Brooklyn 12 years
Indianapolis 7 years | Now in
Chicago 6 years | Baltimore 22 years |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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meirman wrote:
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on 31 Aug 2005 02:17:30 -0700 "Nick"
pacifico@btopenworld.com> posted:
the Omrud wrote:
Nick spake thusly:
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
Perhaps you'd better tell us what you consider to be the "correct"
pronunciation, and why.
--
~
min NEW shee ee - my 4 dictionaries! :-)
What I think is interesting is that alumnae and alumni are pronounced
exactly backwards in secular Latin and English pronunciations.
~ |
Posh for 'Old Boys/Girls'! :-)
A Canadian told me that!
As for 'minutiae', it looks like 'ee' or 'eye' endings are fine!
Good 'ere, innit? :-D
Nick |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:44:30 -0400, meirman <meirman@invalid.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on 1 Sep 2005 01:45:32 -0700 "Nick"
pacifico@btopenworld.com> posted:
What I think is interesting is that alumnae and alumni are pronounced
exactly backwards in secular Latin and English pronunciations.
~
Posh for 'Old Boys/Girls'! :-)
Not in the US. We don't use old boys/grils.
My son uses this old boy, and his old girl, as babysitters. |
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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In alt.english.usage on 1 Sep 2005 01:45:32 -0700 "Nick"
<pacifico@btopenworld.com> posted:
| Quote: |
What I think is interesting is that alumnae and alumni are pronounced
exactly backwards in secular Latin and English pronunciations.
~
Posh for 'Old Boys/Girls'!
|
Not in the US. We don't use old boys/grils.
s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
--
My English in this reply is colloquial, and may not always use full sentences.
For gosh sakes, when you ask a question, say what sort of English you are asking about.
When you give an answer, say in what part of the world you think your answer is valid.
If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years | Brooklyn 12 years
Indianapolis 7 years | Now in
Chicago 6 years | Baltimore 22 years |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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meirman wrote:
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on 1 Sep 2005 01:45:32 -0700 "Nick"
pacifico@btopenworld.com> posted:
What I think is interesting is that alumnae and alumni are pronounced
exactly backwards in secular Latin and English pronunciations.
~
Posh for 'Old Boys/Girls'! :-)
Not in the US. We don't use old boys/grils.
~ |
Well, my Canadian pal said, 'Old Boys' (he didn't mention girls!) -
like Eton Old Boys, I suppose - are Old Girls to do with sorority
houses?
Nick |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:44:30 -0400, meirman <meirman@invalid.com
wrote:
In alt.english.usage on 1 Sep 2005 01:45:32 -0700 "Nick"
pacifico@btopenworld.com> posted:
What I think is interesting is that alumnae and alumni are
pronounced exactly backwards in secular Latin and English
pronunciations.
~
Posh for 'Old Boys/Girls'! :-)
Not in the US. We don't use old boys/grils.
My son uses this old boy, and his old girl, as babysitters.
|
I guess you're lucky you're not married to an old gril.
But I thought the USA was chocka with old boys, especially the good old
boys.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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Nick wrote:
| Quote: | Alan OBrien wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
I was taught to say it by the great Danny Baker. It is a bit like this:
min-oo-shee.
~
That's it, with an extra 'ee'! :-)
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There's no justification for the extra 'ee', unless you also pronounce
the '-tion' in words like justification as 2 syllables.
Gary |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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John Dean wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:44:30 -0400, meirman <meirman@invalid.com
wrote:
In alt.english.usage on 1 Sep 2005 01:45:32 -0700 "Nick"
pacifico@btopenworld.com> posted:
What I think is interesting is that alumnae and alumni are
pronounced exactly backwards in secular Latin and English
pronunciations.
~
Posh for 'Old Boys/Girls'! :-)
Not in the US. We don't use old boys/grils.
My son uses this old boy, and his old girl, as babysitters.
I guess you're lucky you're not married to an old gril.
But I thought the USA was chocka with old boys, especially the good old
boys.
--
~ |
<g> *I* remember 'Dallas' too! :-D
Nick |
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Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Minutiae! |
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gvellenzer@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Nick wrote:
Alan OBrien wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1125393186.834214.305780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I have *never* heard *anyone* pronounce 'minutiae' on British TV
correctly - do any AEU posters know how to? :-)
I was taught to say it by the great Danny Baker. It is a bit like this:
min-oo-shee.
~
That's it, with an extra 'ee'! :-)
There's no justification for the extra 'ee', unless you also pronounce
the '-tion' in words like justification as 2 syllables.
~ |
<g> Cor!
Nick |
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