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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:14 am
Post subject: Re: Special letters |
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I (Mark Brader) wrote:
| Quote: | ... like Finnish or the Scandinavian languuges?
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Jim Lawton:
| Quote: | I think the Finns will take offence if you exclude them from Scandinavia.
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Actually, that's the other way about, When I was in school I did learn
that Finland was a Scandinavian country, but that usage is now considered
at best imprecise. The actual peninsula named Scandinavia is the one
that extends southwest from the north end of Finland and belongs to Norway
and Sweden, and when the term is used more widely (as it often is),
Denmark and perhaps Iceland are more likely to be included than Finland.
If you do want to count Finland as well, you're supposed to say "the
Nordic countries".
In any case I was speaking of languages, not countries, and Finnish is
nothing like the Scandinavian languuges -- they're Germanic, and Finnish
isn't even Indo-European.
| Quote: | ä is called in Finnish "a pilkku" and ö is "o pilkku" - pilkku means
"spot" : which does not detract from your general argument, but means
that Finnish is not a language which you can use as an example.
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Thanks for the correction.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is.
msb@vex.net | -- Bill Clinton
My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:14 am
Post subject: Re: Special letters |
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Jim Lawton spake thusly:
| Quote: | On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 04:59:19 -0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
snip
So an English-speaker may refer to Ö as "O-umlaut" (correct if it
occurs in German), "O-dieresis" (correct for English or French), or
even "O-tréma" (correct for French, choosing to use its French name).
But what if the foreign language doesn't have the concept that ¨ by
itself means anything, because it doesn't see ¨ as a separate thing
added to a letter at all, like Finnish or the Scandinavian languuges?
I think the Finns will take offence if you exclude them from Scandinavia.
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I am confident that they will not. I know many Finns (we have a
large business there) and I have often visited them. We have learned
not to refer to the area containing Denmark, Sweden, Norway and
Finland as "Scandinavia" as the Finns are insistent that Finland is
not in Scandinavia. They are comfortable with "Nordic Region".
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Special letters |
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On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:14:06 -0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
| Quote: | In any case I was speaking of languages, not countries, and Finnish is
nothing like the Scandinavian languuges -- they're Germanic, and Finnish
isn't even Indo-European.
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Nope, it's Finno-Ugric - but I'm just going by my Finnish friend who says "We
are the real Scandinavians"
--
Jim
"a single species has come to dominate ...
reproducing at bacterial levels, almost as an
infectious plague envelops its host"
http://tinyurl.com/c88xs |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:22 am
Post subject: Re: Special letters |
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On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:14:30 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Lawton spake thusly:
On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 04:59:19 -0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
snip
So an English-speaker may refer to Ö as "O-umlaut" (correct if it
occurs in German), "O-dieresis" (correct for English or French), or
even "O-tréma" (correct for French, choosing to use its French name).
But what if the foreign language doesn't have the concept that ¨ by
itself means anything, because it doesn't see ¨ as a separate thing
added to a letter at all, like Finnish or the Scandinavian languuges?
I think the Finns will take offence if you exclude them from Scandinavia.
I am confident that they will not. I know many Finns (we have a
large business there) and I have often visited them. We have learned
not to refer to the area containing Denmark, Sweden, Norway and
Finland as "Scandinavia" as the Finns are insistent that Finland is
not in Scandinavia. They are comfortable with "Nordic Region".
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Ah well, then times have changed - I stand corrected.
--
Jim
"a single species has come to dominate ...
reproducing at bacterial levels, almost as an
infectious plague envelops its host"
http://tinyurl.com/c88xs |
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Big Al, (Iso Allo)
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Special letters |
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Jim Lawton wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:17:13 GMT, "Big Al, \(Iso Allo\)"
pauli.kesti-i-like-dinosaurs@pp.inet.fi> wrote:
Jim Lawton wrote:
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:23:57 GMT, "Big Al, \(Iso Allo\)"
pauli.kesti.i-like-dinosaurs@pp.inet.nodomain.fi> wrote:
"Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net> kirjoitti
viestissä:YI6dnfMAdO8djI_eRVn-og@comcast.com...
Big Al, (Iso Allo) wrote:
How must be pronounced of these "special" letters:
Î î
Ï ï
Ý ý
à ã
Ô ô
and:
Ë ë
I'am grateful, if some people(s) can tell me.
What language are you talking about? It's not English.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Finnish, sorry my english is so bad.
Ei niin huonoa - we understand you, but your question doesn't
explain enough. - Those letters don't happen in Finnish - only a"
and o" - maybe John Lawler's answer is enough for you ...
Näitä kirjaimia ei ole suomen kielessä.
These letters is not use? in Finnish language.
"These letters aren't in the Finnish language" is what you wrote in
Finnish, but "These letters aren't used in the Finnish language." is
nice in English.
Because Finland is bi-language country, there is some people who
speaks in Swedish and this (selittää sen? Help! I don't know right
words!)
"explains [it]"
why
Finnish alphabets contains Åå which pronounced like O.
I never thought about the alphabet having Å before, for all those
Swedish speaking Finns.
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Example: Åke (swedish-like name) and it pronounced like: "Ooke"
--
Iso Allo (Big Al) says:
The male Allosaurus prowls in the gloomy forest,
hoping to find a female to share the journey with. |
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