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steve marchant
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:44 pm
Post subject: "were" or "was" |
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Could someone please tell me which is correct in the following sentence:
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it until
the grass had grown and it WERE safe to do so"
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it until
the grass had grown and it WAS safe to do so"
I don't wish to avoid the problem by saying for example
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it until
safe to do so and the grass had grown"
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steve marchant
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: "were" or "was" |
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"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3mrgh3F17tm6tU1@individual.net...
| Quote: | Use "was". I'd also suggest getting rid of that "having re-seeded",
which implies that the same people were going to do the reseeding.
Do you actually need to supply quite so much information? If not,
perhaps: "Once the area had been reseeded, people would be kept out
until it was safe to walk on the grass." Or, with a different
meaning, "Once the area has been reseeded, people will be kept out
until it is safe to walk on the grass." Or, if the reseeding has
already been mentioned, simply "People will be kept out until the
grass is fully grown." There are innumerable possibilities; but I
think simpler versions are usually the best.
--
Mike.
I go along with all you say, Mike, and I'll use one of your alternatives. |
Thanks for the quick response.
steve |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:13 pm
Post subject: Re: "were" or "was" |
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steve marchant wrote:
| Quote: | Could someone please tell me which is correct in the following
sentence:
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter
it until the grass had grown and it WERE safe to do so"
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter
it until the grass had grown and it WAS safe to do so"
I don't wish to avoid the problem by saying for example
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter
it until safe to do so and the grass had grown"
|
Use "was". I'd also suggest getting rid of that "having re-seeded",
which implies that the same people were going to do the reseeding.
Do you actually need to supply quite so much information? If not,
perhaps: "Once the area had been reseeded, people would be kept out
until it was safe to walk on the grass." Or, with a different
meaning, "Once the area has been reseeded, people will be kept out
until it is safe to walk on the grass." Or, if the reseeding has
already been mentioned, simply "People will be kept out until the
grass is fully grown." There are innumerable possibilities; but I
think simpler versions are usually the best.
--
Mike.
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:32 am
Post subject: Re: "were" or "was" |
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In alt.english.usage on Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:44:34 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
| Quote: | Could someone please tell me which is correct in the following sentence:
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it until
the grass had grown and it WERE safe to do so"
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it until
the grass had grown and it WAS safe to do so"
|
WAS. Don't know why except it's not one of the exceptions that
require WERE.
| Quote: |
I don't wish to avoid the problem by saying for example
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it until
safe to do so and the grass had grown"
|
This is bad because first the grass grows and then it is safe to walk
on it. Even though they are connected by And, the earlier one should
come first, as they did in the first two examples.
s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
--
My English in this reply is colloquial, and may not always use full sentences.
For gosh sakes, when you ask a question, say what sort of English you are asking about.
When you give an answer, say in what part of the world you think your answer is valid.
If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years | Brooklyn 12 years
Indianapolis 7 years | Now in
Chicago 6 years | Baltimore 22 years |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: "were" or "was" |
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| Quote: | WAS. Don't know why except it's not one of the exceptions that
require WERE.
Is is not use of the subjunctive, caused by the uncertainty. |
e.g. "If I were you", rather than "if I was you"
e.g "If it were safe to do so", "until it were safe to do so".
You could try and justify it like that, but I agree, it is on the edge. |
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David Picton
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: "were" or "was" |
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meirman wrote:
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:44:34 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
Could someone please tell me which is correct in the following sentence:
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it until
the grass had grown and it WERE safe to do so"
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it until
the grass had grown and it WAS safe to do so"
WAS. Don't know why except it's not one of the exceptions that
require WERE.
|
In modern English the subjunctive 'were' is used after a hypothetical,
contrary-to-fact supposition e.g. "if I were you". It's not really
appropriate after a word like "until" which implies that a situation or
event is expected to occur. |
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steve marchant
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:20 pm
Post subject: Re: "were" or "was" |
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"David Picton" <djpicton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124728263.010591.271360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | meirman wrote:
In alt.english.usage on Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:44:34 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
Could someone please tell me which is correct in the following sentence:
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it
until
the grass had grown and it WERE safe to do so"
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it
until
the grass had grown and it WAS safe to do so"
WAS. Don't know why except it's not one of the exceptions that
require WERE.
In modern English the subjunctive 'were' is used after a hypothetical,
contrary-to-fact supposition e.g. "if I were you". It's not really
appropriate after a word like "until" which implies that a situation or
event is expected to occur.
|
Come to think of it, "was" would have probably been accepted without
complaint here in the UK, as use of the subjunctive has become rare. I
actually heard some boomer singing the other day: "If you was the only girl
in the world and I was the only boy...." |
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: "were" or "was" |
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In alt.english.usage on Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:20:10 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
| Quote: |
"David Picton" <djpicton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124728263.010591.271360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
meirman wrote:
In alt.english.usage on Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:44:34 +0000 (UTC) "steve
marchant" <steve.c.marchant@btopenworld.com> posted:
Could someone please tell me which is correct in the following sentence:
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it
until
the grass had grown and it WERE safe to do so"
"Having re-seeded the area, people would then be forbidden to enter it
until
the grass had grown and it WAS safe to do so"
WAS. Don't know why except it's not one of the exceptions that
require WERE.
In modern English the subjunctive 'were' is used after a hypothetical,
contrary-to-fact supposition e.g. "if I were you". It's not really
appropriate after a word like "until" which implies that a situation or
event is expected to occur.
Come to think of it, "was" would have probably been accepted without
complaint here in the UK, as use of the subjunctive has become rare. I
actually heard some boomer singing the other day: "If you was the only girl
in the world and I was the only boy...."
|
He just doesn't know grammar. I think we need someone a little better
educated to judge trends.
s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
--
My English in this reply is colloquial, and may not always use full sentences.
For gosh sakes, when you ask a question, say what sort of English you are asking about.
When you give an answer, say in what part of the world you think your answer is valid.
If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years | Brooklyn 12 years
Indianapolis 7 years | Now in
Chicago 6 years | Baltimore 22 years |
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