| Author |
Message |
Charles Riggs
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:45:47 GMT, "Maria Conlon"
<maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Riggs wrote:
Edwin I wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
Women in the habit of using bananas as didoes often find themselves
in a state of high excitement while in the practice. That is the
origin of the phrase, yes sire
What's are "didoes?"
:)
Dildoes without the phallic l (Hi, Maria!): my bad.
What it is about the "phallic l" that brings me to mind?
|
My contention that women tend to see phallic symbols that wouldn't be
as apparent to the menfolk, an observation you've hotly contested more
than once. Still, you'll have to admit that a thing's a phallic symbol
if it's longer than it's wide, as one of your sisters said
tongue-in-cheek, the tongue sometimes being displayed as a phallic
symbol itself, we should observe.
| Quote: | Be careful what you say if you answer that. Oh, and as for a certain
body part of yours not functioning properly(mentioned in another
thread), are we to presume that said body part's cooperation,
kitchen-sink-wise, is the problem?
|
Please do.
--
Charles Riggs
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Charles Riggs
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:59:17 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Edwin I" <e.ellinwoodspamnomore@verizon.S.P.A.M.net> writes:
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@eircom.net> wrote
Women in the habit of using bananas as didoes often find themselves
in a state of high excitement while in the practice. That is the
origin of the phrase, yes sire
|
A typo for "siree", by the way.
| Quote: | What's are "didoes?"
:)
The OED defines "dido" as
A prank, a caper; a disturbance, 'row', 'shindy'; esp. in phr. to
cut (up) didoes.
and cites it to 1807. Obviously Charles is refering to leaving banana
peels for people to slip on.
|
Yes, obviously. (I should have looked up the word to better save
face.)
--
Charles Riggs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
Ben Zimmer wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | HDAS defines the earlier sense as "homosexual", with a 1933 first
cite:
1933 Ersine _Prison Slang_ 15: _Bananas, adj._ Homosexual,
_queer_. |
Related, in one direction or the other, to "he's a fruit", with the
same meaning?
--
Mike.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Maria Conlon
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | Maria Conlon wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
Edwin I wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
Women in the habit of using bananas as didoes often find
themselves in a state of high excitement while in the practice.
That is the origin of the phrase, yes sire
What's are "didoes?" :)
Dildoes without the phallic l (Hi, Maria!): my bad.
What it is about the "phallic l" that brings me to mind?
My contention that women tend to see phallic symbols that wouldn't be
as apparent to the menfolk, an observation you've hotly contested more
than once.
|
And still would, if I were in a contesting mood. But regardless of my
mood, you're still wrong.
| Quote: | .......Still, you'll have to admit that a thing's a phallic symbol
if it's longer than it's wide, as one of your sisters said
tongue-in-cheek,
|
I don't have any sisters.
| Quote: | .......the tongue sometimes being displayed as a phallic
symbol itself, we should observe.
|
You can observe tongue displays all you want. I pass.
| Quote: |
Be careful what you say if you answer that. Oh, and as for a certain
body part of yours not functioning properly(mentioned in another
thread), are we to presume that said body part's cooperation,
kitchen-sink-wise, is the problem?
Please do.
|
Yes, that would hurt your reputation less than a functioning problem of
a different sort, I suppose. Or maybe it wouldn't -- especially for
those who know what "kitchen-sink-wise" refers to.
By the way, and OBaue: Have I hyphenated "kitchen-sink-wise" correctly?
Maria Conlon
Nor brothers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Earle Jones
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
In article <3n35spF18vdfbU1@individual.net>,
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Ben Zimmer wrote:
[...]
HDAS defines the earlier sense as "homosexual", with a 1933 first
cite:
1933 Ersine _Prison Slang_ 15: _Bananas, adj._ Homosexual,
_queer_.
Related, in one direction or the other, to "he's a fruit", with the
same meaning?
|
*
"Going bananas" goes way back -- no homosexual meaning.
Remember this song?
"Your red scarf matches your eyes,
Close cover before striking,
Father's got the shipfitter blues,
Loving you has made me bananas."
While doing extensive research on the origin of the tune, "Loving
You Has Made Me Bananas", I found that it was written by Guy Marks
at some time in the late '60s. This was a takeoff on the old 1930s
big band shows.
"From the ballroom at the beautiful
Hotel Uptown in Downtown Pottstown,
we bring you ....."
Ahhh! They just don't write tunes like that any more!
earle
*
More 'banana' tunes:
"Yes, We Have No Bananas" - Billy Jones (1923)
"I've Never Seen A Straight Banana" - Ted Waite (1926)
"Yes, We Have No Bananas" - Enoch Light & His Charleston City All
Stars
"Banana in Your Fruit Basket" - Bo Carter (1931)
"Banana Man Blues" - Memphis Minnie (1934)
"I've Got Those Yes We Have No Bananas Blues" - words by Lew Brown,
music by James F. Hanley and Robert King (1937) - Sung by Bailey's
Lucky Seven
"I Like Bananas Because They Have No Bones" - The Hoosier Hot Shots
(1940s)
"Chiquita Banana" - King Sisters (1946)
"I'm Chiquita Banana" - radio advertisement (1950s)
"Chiquita Banana" - Xavier Cugat (1950s?)
"Bananas" - Louis Jordan (1955)
"Yes We Have No Bananas" - Mitch Miller (1950s?)
"Day-O" (The Banana Boat Song) - Harry Belafonte (1959)
"Banana Boat" - Stan Freberg (1960s)
"Banana Boat" - Joe Higgs (1960s?)
"The Name Game" - Shirley Ellis (1960s) (Banana-fana)
"912 Greens" - Ramblin' Jack Elliott (1967?)
"Mellow Yellow" - Donovan (1960s)
"Apeman" - The Kinks (1970)
"30,000 Lbs. of Bananas" - Harry Chapin (1970s?)
"Loving You Has Made Me Bananas" - Guy Marks (1968)
"Wurds" - George Carlin (1975)
"Vendedor De Bananas" - Jorge Ben (1976)
"My Brother Thinks He's A Banana" - Barry Louis Polisar (1977)
"Phillips Goes Bananas" - Hound Dog Taylor (1982)
"Banana" - Joe King Carrasco (1987)
"Banana Love" - The Bobs (1987)
"Banana Jam" - Cabo Frio (1987)
"Smokin' Banana Peels" - Dead Milkmen (1988)
"Banana "Bobine"" - The Rebels (1989)
"I'm Going Bananas" - Madonna (1990)
"Montana Banana" - David Newman (1991)
"Broadway Banana" - Linda Arnold (1991)
"All The Nations Like Bananas" - Charlotte Diamond (1992)
"God's Great Banana Skin" - Chris Rea (1993)
"The Banana Song" - Circle With A Smile (1993)
"Bananaphone" - Raffi (1994)
"Have A Banana" - Plum Tree (1994?)
DATES UNKNOWN
"Ode To The Banana King (Part I)" - Tori Amos
"2 Ladies In The Shade Of The Banana Tree" - Pearl Bailey
"1 Banana, 2 Banana" - Banana Splits
"Banana" - Banda Bianco
"Banana Republic" - Boomtown Rats
"My Wife Left Town With A Banana" - Carlos Borzini, Senior
"Talking Green Beret New Super Yellow Hydraulic Banana Blues" -
Jaime Brockett
"Banana Republic" - Jimmy Buffett
"Banana Man" - Clifton Chenier
"Japanese Banana" - Chipmunks
"A Bunch of Bananas" - Rosemary Clooney
"Sookie, Sookie" - Don Covay
"Bananafishbone" - The Cure
"1 Banana, 2 Banana" - The Dickies
"Banana Split Republic" - False Prophets
"When Banana Skins Are Falling" - Slim Gaillard
"Why Are Bananas Picked Green?" - Tom Glazer & Paul (Mr.
Imagination) Tripp
"Banana" - Hot Pink Turtles
"Banana Boat" - Kinks
"A Shoe With No Lace, Banana Without A Skin" - The Kinks
(performed live, but never recorded)
"Banana Leaf" - Shonen Knife
"Banana Banana" - King Kurt
"There's A Banana In The Woods Over There" - The Love Children
"Banana" - Grupo Mancotal
"Banana" - The Nelories
"Please Don't Squeeza Da Banana" - Louis Prima
"Banana Split For My Baby" - Louis Prima
"Apples and Bananas" - Connie Regan & Barbara Freeman
"When Can I Have A Banana Again?" - Harry Roy & His Orchestra
"Boiled Bananas and Carrots" - Peter Sellers
"Guabi Guabi" - George Sibandi
"Sookie, Sookie" - Steppenwolf
"Sweet Talking Man" - Ruth Wallis
With thanks to Ann Lovell, The Banana Museum, Auburn, Washington. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brian Wickham
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:38:09 -0700, Earle Jones
<earle.jones@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | *
"Going bananas" goes way back -- no homosexual meaning.
Remember this song?
"Your red scarf matches your eyes,
Close cover before striking,
Father's got the shipfitter blues,
Loving you has made me bananas."
While doing extensive research on the origin of the tune, "Loving
You Has Made Me Bananas", I found that it was written by Guy Marks
at some time in the late '60s. This was a takeoff on the old 1930s
big band shows.
I would question whether 1967-68 qualifies as "way back" as the term, |
as applied in the song, predates it by quite a few years. As one who
was familiar with the song in its time I can tell you that the line,
"Loving you has made me bananas" was meant to be taken as trite by the
audience, as is the sense of the whole song. This tells us now that
the audience was known to be familiar with the term. The piece is an
absurdist love song to triteness!
In my opinion pop songs are not that good a marker for these kinds of
things as they sometimes use phrases out of context for there own
purposes. You really have to know the song in its time to be able to
judge any usage questions. A better source is contemporary film
dialogue which is usually a little out of date, but not so much so
that the intended audience would groan.
A good example of this is the movie Champion (1948). It contains the
lines "That was then, this is now." and "Wake up! Smell the coffee."
Offhandedly most would assume these two constructions were from the
1980's but the film proves otherwise, and there is no question as to
the intended meaning.
I was not aware of the homosexual context of "bananas" until I started
following this thread but it certainly sounds plausible and has actual
citations.
Aside from all that, I don't know when "going bananas" came into the
language other than I knew it as a boy in the late 1950's and that it
became popular in the early 1960's. (Why do I keep thinking of Buddy
Hackett?)
Brian Wickham |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ben Zimmer
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
Brian Wickham wrote:
| Quote: |
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:38:09 -0700, Earle Jones
earle.jones@comcast.net> wrote:
*
"Going bananas" goes way back -- no homosexual meaning.
[...]
I was not aware of the homosexual context of "bananas" until I started
following this thread but it certainly sounds plausible and has actual
citations.
Aside from all that, I don't know when "going bananas" came into the
language other than I knew it as a boy in the late 1950's and that it
became popular in the early 1960's. (Why do I keep thinking of Buddy
Hackett?)
|
See upthread-- first cite for the "crazy" sense in the Historical
Dictionary of American Slang is from 1957, more than two decades after
the first known cite for the "homosexual" sense. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:57 am
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
Brian Wickham <bwickham@NO~SPAM.nyc.rr.com> writes:
| Quote: | A good example of this is the movie Champion (1948). It contains
the lines "That was then, this is now." and "Wake up! Smell the
coffee." Offhandedly most would assume these two constructions were
from the 1980's but the film proves otherwise, and there is no
question as to the intended meaning.
|
Is there continuity of usage? Looking at the _LA Times_, the first
several hits (in 1979) for "Wake up and smell the coffee" are from ads
for a Proctor-Silex automatic coffeemaker, which makes it sound as
though it came to widespread attention via an ad campaign. The first
use in a metaphorical sense is from 1982:
In other words, "County Woman" is one of those put-down-housewife-
wakes-up-and-smells-the-coffee books and it contains all the
features of this new genre of fiction. [2/26/1982]
"That was then; this is now" seems to be better attested, at least in
the sports section:
True, they were beaten by Washington and barely beat U.C.L.A.,
which stands for the Los Angeles branch of the University of
California, and were tied by Northwestern, but that was then and
this is now. [12/28/1933]
Most Stanfords forget that the Bruins once took an 82-0 licking at
Palo Alto. That was then. This is now. [9/14/1956]
But then there are nine hits from November, 1971, through November,
1972, which implies to me that somebody did something in late 1971
that made it a catch phrase. Googling, I find that S.E. Hinton wrote
a widely-acclaimed book called _That Was Then, This is Now_, which was
released in 1971.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When correctly viewed,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | Everything is lewd.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |I could tell you things
| about Peter Pan,
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |and the Wizard of Oz--
(650)857-7572 | there's a dirty old man!
| Tom Lehrer
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Maria Conlon
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
Evan Kirshenbaum wrote, in part:
| Quote: | Brian Wickham writes:
A good example of this is the movie Champion (1948). It contains
the lines "That was then, this is now." and "Wake up! Smell the
coffee." Offhandedly most would assume these two constructions were
from the 1980's but the film proves otherwise, and there is no
question as to the intended meaning.
Is there continuity of usage? Looking at the _LA Times_, the first
several hits (in 1979) for "Wake up and smell the coffee" are from ads
for a Proctor-Silex automatic coffeemaker, which makes it sound as
though it came to widespread attention via an ad campaign. The first
use in a metaphorical sense is from 1982:
In other words, "County Woman" is one of those put-down-housewife-
wakes-up-and-smells-the-coffee books and it contains all the
features of this new genre of fiction. [2/26/1982]
[...] |
All I can say is that I've heard and said "wake up and smell the coffee"
since *way* before the 1980s -- probably the 1950s or 1960s. It was
certainly before I got married (1969).
As for "that was then, this is now": I don't remember it as a popular
phrase or even just a specific phrase from any particular year, decade,
movie, or event. It sounds like something anyone could say at any time,
much the same as "that was a long time ago, and times change."
Maria Conlon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Areff
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:05 am
Post subject: Wake Up and Smell the Coffee (was: Going bananas) |
|
|
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: | Evan Kirshenbaum wrote, in part:
Brian Wickham writes:
A good example of this is the movie Champion (1948). It contains
the lines "That was then, this is now." and "Wake up! Smell the
coffee."
Is there continuity of usage? Looking at the _LA Times_, the first
several hits (in 1979) for "Wake up and smell the coffee" are from ads
for a Proctor-Silex automatic coffeemaker, which makes it sound as
though it came to widespread attention via an ad campaign. The first
use in a metaphorical sense is from 1982:
[...] |
| Quote: | All I can say is that I've heard and said "wake up and smell the coffee"
since *way* before the 1980s -- probably the 1950s or 1960s. It was
certainly before I got married (1969).
|
This quote, a joking reference to wartime rationing, would seem
to indicate it was already in use in the early 'Forties:
A few years back, when a wife told her husband to "wake up and smell the
coffee," it usually was said in utter derision. Now, when there is coffee
to smell, she shouts it to him in supreme delight.
1943 Chicago Daily Trib. 18 Jan.
However, Erk's point is still to be considered. There's nothing I can
find betwen 1943 and 1963. There are four hits in the 'Sixties, and then
a lot more in the 'Seventies.
Aha -- here's something interesting. The 1963 hit is from the Chicago
Tribune's "Letter to Louise" advice column:
Dear Louise: Tell "Suffering Husband" who's in a tizzy because his wife
names their cars Leander, Bing and Cleo to wake up and smell the coffee.
It looks like about 90% of the 1970s hits for "wake up and smell the
coffee" are from readers' letters printed in the Ann Landers advice
column. I'm not sure what that means, if anything. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Earle Jones
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:02 am
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
In article <vf1j5b8e.fsf@hpl.hp.com>,
Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Brian Wickham <bwickham@NO~SPAM.nyc.rr.com> writes:
A good example of this is the movie Champion (1948). It contains
the lines "That was then, this is now." and "Wake up! Smell the
coffee." Offhandedly most would assume these two constructions were
from the 1980's but the film proves otherwise, and there is no
question as to the intended meaning.
Is there continuity of usage? Looking at the _LA Times_, the first
several hits (in 1979) for "Wake up and smell the coffee" are from ads
for a Proctor-Silex automatic coffeemaker, which makes it sound as
though it came to widespread attention via an ad campaign. The first
use in a metaphorical sense is from 1982:
In other words, "County Woman" is one of those put-down-housewife-
wakes-up-and-smells-the-coffee books and it contains all the
features of this new genre of fiction. [2/26/1982]
"That was then; this is now" seems to be better attested, at least in
the sports section:
True, they were beaten by Washington and barely beat U.C.L.A.,
which stands for the Los Angeles branch of the University of
California, and were tied by Northwestern, but that was then and
this is now. [12/28/1933]
Most Stanfords forget that the Bruins once took an 82-0 licking at
Palo Alto. That was then. This is now. [9/14/1956]
But then there are nine hits from November, 1971, through November,
1972, which implies to me that somebody did something in late 1971
that made it a catch phrase. Googling, I find that S.E. Hinton wrote
a widely-acclaimed book called _That Was Then, This is Now_, which was
released in 1971.
|
*
Evan: That would have been Susan Eloise Hinton, and not Sam Hinton,
who was one of the original American folk singers -- I think he
taught Pete Seeger and others.
Some years ago, Sam posted to this NewsGroup, but I haven't seen
much lately. I hope he's doing well.
Here's a Sam Hinton posting (Jan 13, 1998) and my response:
My memory of the early Eskimo Pie was that it had no stick. My
earliest memory of eating one is from when I was 6, on Feb.5, 1923,
the night my sister Ann was born and we four older kids stayed at
the home of Buddy and Tooey Murray, who permitted us to walk through
the Tulsa snow to the drug store and buy Eskimo Pies. [T]hey cost a
nickel apiece.
Sam Hinton
La Jolla, CA
--
Sam's post reminds me of what we called an "Ice Cream Sandwich",
which comprised a square slab of vanilla ice cream between two
chocolate graham crackers. Though considerably younger than Sam, I
would have sampled this delicacy in about 1935 or 1936.
And by the way, don't confuse Eskimo Pie with the mathematical pi,
which is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter,
roughly equal to 3.14159...
In Alaska, where things are cold and shrink with the freezing
temperatures, pi is equal to 3.0 and this is sometimes called Eskimo
pi.
earle
--
But that was then; this is now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Areff
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:42 am
Post subject: Re: Going bananas |
|
|
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
Earle Jones wrote:
| Quote: | Sam's post reminds me of what we called an "Ice Cream Sandwich",
which comprised a square slab of vanilla ice cream between two
chocolate graham crackers. Though considerably younger than Sam, I
would have sampled this delicacy in about 1935 or 1936.
|
I sampled that delicacy throughout the 1970s and at least as late as 1988
or 1989. I'm not sure if they've vanished since then, but I may have had
one or three during the 1990s.
I wouldn't have used the term "chocolate graham cracker" to describe the
outer part, because it's softer than a normative graham cracker, though I
do see some connection. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Maurer
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:19 pm
Post subject: That was then, this is now |
|
|
About "That was then, this is now."
Evan Kirshenbaum quoted the _LA Times_:
True, they were beaten by Washington and barely beat U.C.L.A.,
which stands for the Los Angeles branch of the University of
California, and were tied by Northwestern, but that was then and
this is now. [12/28/1933]
Most Stanfords forget that the Bruins once took an 82-0 licking at
Palo Alto. That was then. This is now. [9/14/1956]
I see some evidence that the "that was then" part
goes back further, but was not often seen in print.
One 1891 example
"That was then, but what now?"
is seen in the American Memory Collection.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[a subthread of Going bananas] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prai Jei
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:56 am
Post subject: Re: That was then, this is now |
|
|
Richard Maurer (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<01c5b83b$cc177dc0$45c8480c@default>:
| Quote: | About "That was then, this is now."
Evan Kirshenbaum quoted the _LA Times_:
True, they were beaten by Washington and barely beat U.C.L.A.,
which stands for the Los Angeles branch of the University of
California, and were tied by Northwestern, but that was then and
this is now. [12/28/1933]
Most Stanfords forget that the Bruins once took an 82-0 licking at
Palo Alto. That was then. This is now. [9/14/1956]
I see some evidence that the "that was then" part
goes back further, but was not often seen in print.
One 1891 example
"That was then, but what now?"
is seen in the American Memory Collection.
|
Thaes overeode, thisses swa maeg.
(That has gone by, this soon may)
- Refrain to Old English poem "Deor"
--
There are very few spiders found on bananas that bite.
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in