| Author |
Message |
Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:11 pm
Post subject: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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Hello,
I'm a tech guy in a school in Houston and was working on some computers
in a high school English class today.
The teacher started explaining run-on sentences and stated the only
conjunctions are and, nor, but, and or.
I remembered the acronym FANBOYS from my high school days, and asked
about for, yet, and so. She said, "No, they are not conjuctions. 'For'
is a preposition and 'yet' and 'so' are adverbs."
I maintained that while they may be used as those parts of speech, they
are still conjunctions.
Is there a more restrictive definition of conjunction that I am not
aware of that excludes these thre words?
Thanks,
Todd
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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Todd wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I'm a tech guy in a school in Houston and was working on some
computers in a high school English class today.
The teacher started explaining run-on sentences and stated the only
conjunctions are and, nor, but, and or.
I remembered the acronym FANBOYS from my high school days, and
asked
about for, yet, and so. She said, "No, they are not conjuctions.
'For'
is a preposition and 'yet' and 'so' are adverbs."
I maintained that while they may be used as those parts of speech,
they are still conjunctions.
Is there a more restrictive definition of conjunction that I am not
aware of that excludes these thre words?
|
No, not to my knowledge; but by my old-fashioned grammar you can
classify conjunctions as coordinating or subordinating (there can
also be subdivisions if necessary).
Coordinating conjunctions connect sentences of equal rank: the ones
she mentioned (_and, but, or, nor_) are examples, but not the only
ones. Subordinating ones connect the main sentence to one which
depends on it, like _if, because, when, how_ and many others.
I'm afraid Teacher is wrong this time, and you are right. Be tactful!
--
Mike. |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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On 19 Aug 2005 09:11:49 -0700, "Todd" <t0ddlg@yahoo.com>
said:
[...]
| Quote: | I'm a tech guy in a school in Houston and was working on some computers
in a high school English class today.
The teacher started explaining run-on sentences and stated the only
conjunctions are and, nor, but, and or.
I remembered the acronym FANBOYS from my high school days, and asked
about for, yet, and so. She said, "No, they are not conjuctions. 'For'
is a preposition and 'yet' and 'so' are adverbs."
I maintained that while they may be used as those parts of speech, they
are still conjunctions.
|
You could show your teacher _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate
Dictionary_ ( http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary ), where
it says "for" is a noun, a conjunction, or a preposition.
It shows "because" as a synonym of the conjunction "for".
Main Entry: 2 for
Function: conjunction
: for the reason that : on this ground : BECAUSE
| Quote: | Is there a more restrictive definition of conjunction that I am not
aware of that excludes these thre words?
|
Your teacher seems to know of one. If you change your
question to "Is there a generally accepted, more restrictive
definition of conjunction that I am not aware of that
excludes these thre words?", then the answer is probably no.
But there are definitions of "for" as a conjunction in both
American and British unabridged dictionaries.
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:54:56 GMT, Bob Cunningham
<exw6sxq@earthlink.net> said:
[...]
That URL doesn't work as it is. It says you didn't give it
a word to look up. ( http://www.m-w.com ) works okay. |
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:31 am
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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In alt.english.usage on 19 Aug 2005 09:11:49 -0700 "Todd"
<t0ddlg@yahoo.com> posted:
| Quote: | Hello,
I'm a tech guy in a school in Houston and was working on some computers
in a high school English class today.
The teacher started explaining run-on sentences and stated the only
conjunctions are and, nor, but, and or.
I remembered the acronym FANBOYS from my high school days, and asked
about for, yet, and so. She said, "No, they are not conjuctions. 'For'
is a preposition and 'yet' and 'so' are adverbs."
|
This reminds me of another high school class in English. The teacher
was covering tense and mood and asked, What voices do verbs have?
And no one raised his hand, so the teacher pointed and said, "You in
the back. What voices do verbs have?"
"I don't know"
"Well, didn't you read about this in the textbook?"
"No"
"Well, what did you do last night?"
"I had pizza and beer with my buddies."
"Beer!"
"The beer is the best part."
"How do you expect to graduate high school if you spend weeknights
drinking beer with your buddies?"
"I don't know, Ma'am. I just came in to fix the radiator."
| Quote: | I maintained that while they may be used as those parts of speech, they
are still conjunctions.
Is there a more restrictive definition of conjunction that I am not
aware of that excludes these thre words?
Thanks,
Todd
|
s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
--
My English in this reply is colloquial, and may not always use full sentences.
For gosh sakes, when you ask a question, say what sort of English you are asking about.
When you give an answer, say in what part of the world you think your answer is valid.
If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years | Brooklyn 12 years
Indianapolis 7 years | Now in
Chicago 6 years | Baltimore 22 years |
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:46 am
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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Todd wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I'm a tech guy in a school in Houston and was working on some computers
in a high school English class today.
The teacher started explaining run-on sentences and stated the only
conjunctions are and, nor, but, and or.
I remembered the acronym FANBOYS from my high school days, and asked
about for, yet, and so. She said, "No, they are not conjuctions. 'For'
is a preposition and 'yet' and 'so' are adverbs."
|
The teacher seems to be insisting that only coordinating conjunctions
count as conjunctions. However, 'for,' 'yet,' and 'so' are classified by
many grammarians (even of the pre-1950 variety) as coordinating
conjunctions. This teacher would be hard-pressed to maintain her
position even in a room of fellow schoolmarms. Her list is of those
which are _always_ included in lists of central coordinators, while your
list is of words which _sometimes_ are included in such lists.
Words like 'because,' 'although,' 'since,' 'after,' 'while,' 'if,'
'since,' 'when,' 'in order that,' 'as,' and 'unless' are subordinating
conjunctions. Why this teacher would want to exclude them from the
class of conjunction eludes me.
T wonder what this teacher would do with complex conjunctions like 'but
that,' 'in that,' 'assuming that,' 'as if,' 'in case,' 'as soon as.'
She seems to have in mind words like 'accordingly,' 'also,'
'consequently,' 'however,' 'nevertheless,' 'therefore,' 'then' called
conjunctive adverbs in older grammars. These were expected to be used
in the form '; <conjunctive adverb>, ' and were considered to have 'weak
connective function.' Words like these are now often called conjunts,
defined as adverbials indication logical relationships between sentences
or clauses.
| Quote: | I maintained that while they may be used as those parts of speech, they
are still conjunctions.
Is there a more restrictive definition of conjunction that I am not
aware of that excludes these thre words?
|
Could you tell me what high school this occurred in? If it was the one
I attended, I would like to write to the headmaster about it. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:40 am
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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Martin Ambuhl wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | count as conjunctions. However, 'for,' 'yet,' and 'so' are
classified
by many grammarians (even of the pre-1950 variety) as coordinating
conjunctions. [...]
|
"Even of the pre-1950 variety"? I've just checked my faithful 1898
grammar book, and it quite clearly calls them "co-ordinative
conjunctions". You're far younger than I thought. You aren't by any
chance also of the first generation of the human race to discover
sex, are you?
Seriously, are there grammarians who _don't_ classify conjunctions in
this way? -- but then again, it's a way which seems so obvious to me
that I suppose I should be amazed if it hasn't been rejected by the
career linguisticians.
--
Mike. |
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:56 am
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Martin Ambuhl wrote:
[...]
count as conjunctions. However, 'for,' 'yet,' and 'so' are
classified
by many grammarians (even of the pre-1950 variety) as coordinating
conjunctions. [...]
"Even of the pre-1950 variety"? I've just checked my faithful 1898
grammar book, and it quite clearly calls them "co-ordinative
conjunctions".
|
What calendar do you use in which 1898 is not pre-1950?
| Quote: | You're far younger than I thought.
|
I suppose you have divined my age by the same process that led you to
think that 1898 was not before 1950.
| Quote: | You aren't by any
chance also of the first generation of the human race to discover
sex, are you?
|
You aren't among those that have discovered either logic or arithmetic,
are you? |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:58 am
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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Martin Ambuhl wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
Martin Ambuhl wrote:
[...]
count as conjunctions. However, 'for,' 'yet,' and 'so' are
classified
by many grammarians (even of the pre-1950 variety) as
coordinating
conjunctions. [...]
"Even of the pre-1950 variety"? I've just checked my faithful 1898
grammar book, and it quite clearly calls them "co-ordinative
conjunctions".
What calendar do you use in which 1898 is not pre-1950?
You're far younger than I thought.
I suppose you have divined my age by the same process that led you
to
think that 1898 was not before 1950.
You aren't by any
chance also of the first generation of the human race to discover
sex, are you?
You aren't among those that have discovered either logic or
arithmetic, are you?
|
I was going by the implications of "many grammarians" (when I'd have
thought "most if not all grammarians"), and "even...pre-1950", which
seemed striking given that the idea was already established as
standard by 1898. You did select the word "even", and I assumed that
it wasn't picked at random -- your image here is not that of a man
who picks words at random. I defend both my reasoning and my
arithmetic.
--
Mike. |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodi
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: Conjuctions, high school English, "FANBOYS" |
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Todd wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello,
I'm a tech guy in a school in Houston and was working on some computers
in a high school English class today.
The teacher started explaining run-on sentences and stated the only
conjunctions are and, nor, but, and or.
I remembered the acronym FANBOYS from my high school days, and asked
about for, yet, and so. She said, "No, they are not conjuctions. 'For'
is a preposition and 'yet' and 'so' are adverbs."
I maintained that while they may be used as those parts of speech, they
are still conjunctions.
Is there a more restrictive definition of conjunction that I am not
aware of that excludes these thre words?
I thought you were supposed to be working on the computers and not |
embarrassing the teacher.
--
"And he did bring them. It took a number of years, but one by one he
brought them here. Except for his father, that old man died where he was
born." -+ "Elia Kazan, "America, America" |
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