Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir.
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Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir.
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Al
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

Thanks,
Al
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Greenmailer: Was "Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Si Reply with quote

Dick Chambers wrote:
Quote:
Did you see the recent television programme (in UK) about the US American -
Malcolm Glazer if my memory is correct - who has completed a hostile buy-out
of all the shares in Manchester United Football Club, so that he now
controls the business?

"The US American"?

Quote:
Greenmailing consists, in some way, of an attempt to obtain unjustified
financial advantage from buying and selling shares, without any pretence of
adding value to the company whose shares are being traded. Apparently, this
is done by making the existing shareholders anxious, without factual reason,
that the value of their shares might be dropping considerably if they do not
sell up. The scaremongering enables the greenmailer to buy the shares at an
artificially low price. At least, that was the impression that the programme
gave to me. However, I must admit that my understanding is very hazy about
how the alleged greenmailer might go about this business.

This is a *completely* incorrect definition, AFAICT. As I understand it,
greenmail occurs when a "corporate raider" threatens to take over a
corporation (= BrE "company") by buying up shares, and the company
responds by paying off the raider by buying back the bought shares at an
inflated (higher-than-market) price. In return, the raider agrees to
abandon the threatened takeover.

Quote:
Can anybody supply
the details of what happens in an actual case of greenmailing? How would
one be able to prove a case of greenmailing? Is there a law against it, in
US and in British business law?

This is governed by state law in the US. Most potential cases of
greenmail would be governed by Delaware law, as Delaware is where most of
the largest publicly-traded corporations are incorporated. Googling
suggests that it's legal, and that it's common now for corporations to
include "anti-greenmail" provisions in their articles of incorporation
(charters) to prevent such a thing from occurring, though I don't know the
details.

I believe the term arose back in the early 'Eighties when there were
several widely-reported instances of hostile takeovers and such.
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Will
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

Al wrote:
Quote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

Children's nursery rhyme:

Baa baa black sheep
Have you any wool?
Yes, sir, no sir, three bags full. [NOTE no sir]
One for the Master
And one for the Dame
And one for the little boy who lived down the lane.

When my youngest was at playgroup (about three years ago) they tried to
teach him "Baa baa white sheep". He, being the stubborn scion that he
is, resisted boyfully.

Will.
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FRAN
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

Al wrote:
Quote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

Thanks,
Al

Kids nursery rhyme/song

Baa Baa Black Sheep
Have you any wool?
Yes sir! Yes Sir!
Three bags full.

One for the master
And one for the dame
And one for the little boy
Who lives down the lane.


||||||||||||||||||

I don't know how old it is ... 1962 for me but plainly much older.
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Will wrote:

Quote:
Baa baa black sheep
Have you any wool?
Yes, sir, no sir, three bags full. [NOTE no sir]
One for the Master
And one for the Dame
And one for the little boy who lived down the lane.

When my youngest was at playgroup (about three years ago) they tried to
teach him "Baa baa white sheep". He, being the stubborn scion that he
is, resisted boyfully.

I thought it was "Baa baa green sheep".

Someone once decided there was a "racist" allusion in this nursery
rhyme. The supposed fact that local councils had "banned" it and ordered
that the word "green sheep" be used was often raised as the classic
example of "political correctness gone made". As it happened, the playgroup
which was the origin of the story and had indeed insisted on "green
sheep" was a privately run affair, not under the control of any local council.

Matthew Huntbach
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Arfur Million
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

Al wrote:
Quote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

Thanks,
Al

It comes from the very well-known children's rhyme "Baa baa black
sheep":

Baa baa black sheep have you any wool?
Yes sir, no sir, three bags full.
One for my master one for my dame
and one for the little boy who lives down the lane.


I am glad you asked about this, because it seems to me that another
version with "Yes sir, yes sir" in place of "Yes sir, no sir" has
become more common (or maybe I just learnt the rare version first), and
I wonder if anyone knows why this would be?

Regards,
Arfur
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Joe Fineman
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

AL205refirst@phoneyaddy.com (Al) writes:

Quote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

Baa, baa, black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes, sir; yes, sir, three bags full:
One for my master,
One for my dame,
But none for the little boy
Who cries in the lane.

We sang it, when I was little, to the same tune as the alphabet song.
If you Google "black sheep" "have you any wool", you will get plenty
of versions.
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net

||: I like people who are easy to tell apart. Neutral|
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FRAN
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

Arfur Million wrote:
Quote:
Al wrote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

Thanks,
Al

It comes from the very well-known children's rhyme "Baa baa black
sheep":

Baa baa black sheep have you any wool?
Yes sir, no sir, three bags full.
One for my master one for my dame
and one for the little boy who lives down the lane.


I am glad you asked about this, because it seems to me that another
version with "Yes sir, yes sir" in place of "Yes sir, no sir" has
become more common (or maybe I just learnt the rare version first), and
I wonder if anyone knows why this would be?

Regards,
Arfur

Less paradoxical?

Fran
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R H Draney
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

Arfur Million filted:
Quote:

Al wrote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

It comes from the very well-known children's rhyme "Baa baa black
sheep":

Baa baa black sheep have you any wool?
Yes sir, no sir, three bags full.
One for my master one for my dame
and one for the little boy who lives down the lane.

I am glad you asked about this, because it seems to me that another
version with "Yes sir, yes sir" in place of "Yes sir, no sir" has
become more common (or maybe I just learnt the rare version first), and
I wonder if anyone knows why this would be?

"Yes sir, Yes sir" was the original...in an episode of "M*A*S*H" one of the
characters (Hawkeye?) is making fun of military protocol and mutters "yes sir,
no sir, three bags full sir"; I don't know if that particular version is found
in an earlier source....r
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Dick Chambers
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Greenmailer: Was "Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir". Reply with quote

Matthew Huntbach wrote
Quote:

Baa baa black sheep
Have you any wool?
Yes, sir, no sir, three bags full. [NOTE no sir]
One for the Master
And one for the Dame
And one for the little boy who lived down the lane.

When my youngest was at playgroup (about three years ago) they tried to
teach him "Baa baa white sheep". He, being the stubborn scion that he
is, resisted boyfully.

I thought it was "Baa baa green sheep".

Someone once decided there was a "racist" allusion in this nursery
rhyme. The supposed fact that local councils had "banned" it and ordered
that the word "green sheep" be used was often raised as the classic
example of "political correctness gone made". As it happened, the
playgroup
which was the origin of the story and had indeed insisted on "green
sheep" was a privately run affair, not under the control of any local
council.

Did you see the recent television programme (in UK) about the US American -
Malcolm Glazer if my memory is correct - who has completed a hostile buy-out
of all the shares in Manchester United Football Club, so that he now
controls the business?

The programme investigated some of Glazer's business dealings in the USA
prior to the Manchester United episode, and alleged that he had been
involved in a case of "greenmailing". Apparently, greenmailing is a
different activity from blackmailing. The change of colour from black to
green is not, therefore, the result of political correctness, but is used to
accurately describe what Glazer allegedly did.

Greenmailing consists, in some way, of an attempt to obtain unjustified
financial advantage from buying and selling shares, without any pretence of
adding value to the company whose shares are being traded. Apparently, this
is done by making the existing shareholders anxious, without factual reason,
that the value of their shares might be dropping considerably if they do not
sell up. The scaremongering enables the greenmailer to buy the shares at an
artificially low price. At least, that was the impression that the programme
gave to me. However, I must admit that my understanding is very hazy about
how the alleged greenmailer might go about this business. Can anybody supply
the details of what happens in an actual case of greenmailing? How would
one be able to prove a case of greenmailing? Is there a law against it, in
US and in British business law?

Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

Al wrote:
Quote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

A nursery rhyme:

Baa, baa black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir,
Three bags full.
One for my master,
One for my dame,
But none for the little boy,
Who cries in the lane.
Back to top
Pat Durkin
Guest





Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Greenmailer: Was "Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Si Reply with quote

"Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:de29vt$euu$1@news.wss.yale.edu...
Quote:
Dick Chambers wrote:
Did you see the recent television programme (in UK) about the US
American -
Malcolm Glazer if my memory is correct - who has completed a hostile
buy-out
of all the shares in Manchester United Football Club, so that he now
controls the business?

"The US American"?

Greenmailing consists, in some way, of an attempt to obtain unjustified
financial advantage from buying and selling shares, without any pretence
of
adding value to the company whose shares are being traded. Apparently,
this
is done by making the existing shareholders anxious, without factual
reason,
that the value of their shares might be dropping considerably if they do
not
sell up. The scaremongering enables the greenmailer to buy the shares at
an


Quote:

This is a *completely* incorrect definition, AFAICT. As I understand it,
greenmail occurs when a "corporate raider" threatens to take over a
corporation (= BrE "company") by buying up shares, and the company
responds by paying off the raider by buying back the bought shares at an
inflated (higher-than-market) price. In return, the raider agrees to
abandon the threatened takeover.

Can anybody supply
the details of what happens in an actual case of greenmailing? How
would
one be able to prove a case of greenmailing? Is there a law against it,
in
US and in British business law?

This is governed by state law in the US. Most potential cases of
greenmail would be governed by Delaware law, as Delaware is where most of
the largest publicly-traded corporations are incorporated. Googling
suggests that it's legal, and that it's common now for corporations to
include "anti-greenmail" provisions in their articles of incorporation
(charters) to prevent such a thing from occurring, though I don't know the
details.

I believe the term arose back in the early 'Eighties when there were
several widely-reported instances of hostile takeovers and such.

Yes. A lot of new words hit the public consciousness in a big way back

then: white knight, golden parachute, golden handshake (Grasso of the NYSE,
for example--though his might have been the parachute, since it was built
into the contract.) as well as greenmail.
golden handshake

http://www.answers.com/topic/golden-parachute

"Generous severance pay to an employee, often as an incentive for early
retirement. For example, With a dwindling school population, the town
decided to offer golden handshakes to some of the teachers. This slangy
business term dates from the mid-1900s. A close relative is golden
parachute, a generous severance agreement for an executive in the event of
sudden dismissal owing to a merger or similar circumstance. This expression
first appeared about 1980.
>
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Mike Lyle
Guest





Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: Greenmailer: Was "Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Si Reply with quote

Pat Durkin wrote:
Quote:
"Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
[...]
I believe the term arose back in the early 'Eighties when there
were
several widely-reported instances of hostile takeovers and such.

Yes. A lot of new words hit the public consciousness in a big way
back then: white knight, golden parachute, golden handshake (Grasso
of the NYSE, for example--though his might have been the parachute,
since it was built into the contract.) as well as greenmail.
golden handshake
[...]


Whereas "golden bowler" for the payment on retirement was a much
earlier British military expression. (The reference is, of course, to
the plain-clothes bowler hat = U.S. Derby.)

--
Mike.
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Pat Durkin
Guest





Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

"Arfur Million" <arfur_million@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124369899.165282.238090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Al wrote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

Thanks,
Al

It comes from the very well-known children's rhyme "Baa baa black
sheep":

Baa baa black sheep have you any wool?
Yes sir, no sir, three bags full.
One for my master one for my dame
and one for the little boy who lives down the lane.

1. "Yes sir, no sir, three bags full." (Black sheep was afraid to be

definite?)
2. "and one for the little boy . . ." Correct. The wise black sheep had
three bags and knew where each was destined. (Black sheep wasn't greedily
trying to keep a bag for personal use.)
Quote:

I am glad you asked about this, because it seems to me that another
version with "Yes sir, yes sir" in place of "Yes sir, no sir"

That is the one Martin used, and the one I learned, except for his "none for
the little boy".
Quote:
has
become more common (or maybe I just learnt the rare version first), and
I wonder if anyone knows why this would be?


>
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Adrian Bailey
Guest





Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:31 am    Post subject: Re: Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir. Reply with quote

"Martin Ambuhl" <mambuhl@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Wm2Ne.9269$Je.9043@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Quote:
Al wrote:
Yes, Sir, no, Sir; three bags full, Sir...
Does anyone know where this phrase originated?
Some play or poem, perhaps?

A nursery rhyme:

Baa, baa black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir,
Three bags full.
One for my master,
One for my dame,
But none for the little boy,
Who cries in the lane.

I'm unfamiliar with your and Joe's version. Is this a pondian difference?
What happens to the third bagful?

btw, I noticed in a book that Cathy was given that "master" had been changed
to "the farmer". I'm not sure whether that makes sense either.

Adrian
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