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Daniel G. \"Govende\" McG
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:33 pm
Post subject: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Ever since the year 2000, I have been constantly thinking about the
word "rare". (I won't say what caused it, but Mark Brader was largely
responsible.) At first its meaning--approximately "unusual" or "hard
to find"--was quite easy to deal with, and for some reason I did not
care much at all about the fact that "rare" had more than one meaning
(I did have some knowledge of "rare" = "lightly cooked [meat]" as
well). I would go onto Google (or Google Groups) all the time and
search for "rare" in various ways--because I liked the word so much.
But when I found that the results from Google would occasionally
pertain to "meat", I started thinking a little bit more about "rare
meat". In particular, I began to search for pages containing puns on
the two meanings!
The truth, however, is that I may have been sensitive to the word
"rare" ever since I learned it. It just must have always seemed like
a saddening word to me. The searches on "rare" that I have done in
recent times seem to indicate that a lot of people are beginning to
use the word in new ways, of which some, presumably, are not listed in
the dictionary. I guess I feel uncomfortable with those meanings. It
would be much nicer if the word had only one meaning!! (And, to say
something which I don't know how many readers will agree with me on,
the fact that the old term "rear" or "rere" (the basis of "lightly
cooked") got changed to "rare" seems significant. If I had been
around in 1784, then for all I know I may have had to try and prevent
this change!!!)
- Daniel al-Autistiqui
--
Daniel Gerard McGrath: a/k/a "Govende"
I have the developmental disability Autism.
To e-mail me, remove the six upper-case letters at
the beginning of my address.
[This signature is under construction.]
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CDB
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:22 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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"Daniel G. "Govende" McGrath" <AUTISMgovende30@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:v4a9g1hp56vuqjnlfkdk8l5g87h179uedo@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Ever since the year 2000, I have been constantly thinking about the
word "rare". (I won't say what caused it, but Mark Brader was
largely
responsible.) At first its meaning--approximately "unusual" or
"hard
to find"--was quite easy to deal with, and for some reason I did not
care much at all about the fact that "rare" had more than one
meaning
(I did have some knowledge of "rare" = "lightly cooked [meat]" as
well). I would go onto Google (or Google Groups) all the time and
search for "rare" in various ways--because I liked the word so much.
But when I found that the results from Google would occasionally
pertain to "meat", I started thinking a little bit more about "rare
meat". In particular, I began to search for pages containing puns
on
the two meanings!
The truth, however, is that I may have been sensitive to the word
"rare" ever since I learned it. It just must have always seemed
like
a saddening word to me. The searches on "rare" that I have done in
recent times seem to indicate that a lot of people are beginning to
use the word in new ways, of which some, presumably, are not listed
in
the dictionary. I guess I feel uncomfortable with those meanings.
It
would be much nicer if the word had only one meaning!! (And, to say
something which I don't know how many readers will agree with me on,
the fact that the old term "rear" or "rere" (the basis of "lightly
cooked") got changed to "rare" seems significant. If I had been
around in 1784, then for all I know I may have had to try and
prevent
this change!!!)
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The etymological dictionaries I've checked relate "rare" in the sense
"lightly cooked" ultimately to Old English "hreran", to move, to stir;
so they agree with you that it started off with an "e". I can't
understand why, though, when it looks so much like "raw" (Old Norse
"hrar"), which would relate it nicely to Latin "cruor", blood, and
"crudus", raw.
The year 1784 seems late for the change in spelling. What is it about
that year that signals the change? And what is the significance of it?
(That sounds intriguing.) |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Daniel G. "Govende" McGrath wrote:
| Quote: | ........(And, to say
something which I don't know how many readers will agree with me on,
the fact that the old term "rear" or "rere" (the basis of "lightly
cooked") got changed to "rare" seems significant. If I had been
around in 1784, then for all I know I may have had to try and prevent
this change!!!)
|
I wasn't aware of the etymology, but you are right.
From Merriam-Webster online:
Etymology: alteration of earlier /rere/, from Middle English, from Old
English /hrEre/ boiled lightly; akin to Old English /hrEran/ to stir,
Old High German /hruoren/
: cooked so that the inside is still red <rare roast beef>
As to why "rere" (or "rear") would be changed to "rare," I can only
guess. It could be due to their similar pronunciations or spellings,
which resulted in an error. Or, it could be something less obvious.
The meanings of rare (adjective):
1 : marked by wide separation of component particles : THIN <rare air>
2 a : marked by unusual quality, merit, or appeal : DISTINCTIVE b :
superlative or extreme of its kind
3 : seldom occurring or found : UNCOMMON
synonym see CHOICE, INFREQUENT
Consider 2b: some people like their beef really rare (that is, red
inside); they think it tastes the best.[1] Thus the "rare" applied to
meat may have been related to the "superlative" meaning.
Or, meaning 1 -- "thin." Could rare come from "thinly" cooked
("flimsily" cooked, cooked too little, having little worth or
plausibility)?
Fascinating subject, Daniel.
Maria Conlon, who likes roast beef *very* well done,
almost-but-not-quite charred.
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
| Quote: |
There was a radio program on public radio a few years back
called Adventures in Good Music,
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I used to listen to that on WJR in Detroit, 760 on the AM dial.
| Quote: | ..........hosted by Karl Haas
[for all I know it is still there, but not on my local station]
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I haven't heard the show for a long time, but it may still be on.
Somehow, it seems doubtful, though.
Maria Conlon |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Odysseus wrote:
| Quote: | Maria Conlon wrote:
snip
From Merriam-Webster online:
Etymology: alteration of earlier /rere/, from Middle English, from
Old English /hrEre/ boiled lightly; akin to Old English /hrEran/ to
stir, Old High German /hruoren/
cooked so that the inside is still red <rare roast beef
As to why "rere" (or "rear") would be changed to "rare," I can only
guess. It could be due to their similar pronunciations or spellings,
which resulted in an error. Or, it could be something less obvious.
The meanings of rare (adjective):
1 : marked by wide separation of component particles : THIN <rare
air> 2 a : marked by unusual quality, merit, or appeal : DISTINCTIVE
b : superlative or extreme of its kind
3 : seldom occurring or found : UNCOMMON
synonym see CHOICE, INFREQUENT
Consider 2b: some people like their beef really rare (that is, red
inside); they think it tastes the best.[1] Thus the "rare" applied to
meat may have been related to the "superlative" meaning.
But surely those who like it well-done consider that method to be the
best, and just as worthy of a superlative! (What did you intend to
say in a footnote? I've snipped the end of your post, but there was
no note there.)
|
I meant to write: [1] But they are loony, and all their taste is in
their mouth(s).
Something like that, anyway.
| Quote: | ......"Rare" isn't an extreme either, because there's
"blue", which is cooked still less.
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I guess that'd be something almost raw. Why "blue"?
| Quote: | Or, meaning 1 -- "thin." Could rare come from "thinly" cooked
("flimsily" cooked, cooked too little, having little worth or
plausibility)?
Then there's meaning 3: you might say a rare steak is "scarcely"
cooked, especially if you prefer it well-done.
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Lots of possibilities there for Daniel to think about.
Maria Conlon |
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**\\**~~~~~0______o______
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
| Quote: | Daniel G. "Govende" McGrath wrote:
Ever since the year 2000, I have been constantly thinking about the
word "rare". (I won't say what caused it, but Mark Brader was largely
responsible.) At first its meaning--approximately "unusual" or "hard
to find"--was quite easy to deal with, and for some reason I did not
care much at all about the fact that "rare" had more than one meaning
(I did have some knowledge of "rare" = "lightly cooked [meat]" as
well). I would go onto Google (or Google Groups) all the time and
search for "rare" in various ways--because I liked the word so much.
But when I found that the results from Google would occasionally
pertain to "meat", I started thinking a little bit more about "rare
meat". In particular, I began to search for pages containing puns on
the two meanings!
There was a radio program on public radio a few years back
called Adventures in Good Music, hosted by Karl Haas
[for all I know it is still there, but not on my local station]
each showing of which was devoted to a study of a different
musical "theme", such as variations in cadenzas. Every once
in a while the theme for the day was entitled "Rare and well
done".
Charles
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I wish you han't mentioned that as now I'm going to hear that music all
night!!
Dun. Dun. DUN! Dun dun dun dun te dun! Dun. Dun. Da de dun, dun. Dun
dun duuuunn, te de dun. dun. |
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Odysseus
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: | From Merriam-Webster online:
Etymology: alteration of earlier /rere/, from Middle English, from Old
English /hrEre/ boiled lightly; akin to Old English /hrEran/ to stir,
Old High German /hruoren/
: cooked so that the inside is still red <rare roast beef
As to why "rere" (or "rear") would be changed to "rare," I can only
guess. It could be due to their similar pronunciations or spellings,
which resulted in an error. Or, it could be something less obvious.
The meanings of rare (adjective):
1 : marked by wide separation of component particles : THIN <rare air
2 a : marked by unusual quality, merit, or appeal : DISTINCTIVE b :
superlative or extreme of its kind
3 : seldom occurring or found : UNCOMMON
synonym see CHOICE, INFREQUENT
Consider 2b: some people like their beef really rare (that is, red
inside); they think it tastes the best.[1] Thus the "rare" applied to
meat may have been related to the "superlative" meaning.
|
But surely those who like it well-done consider that method to be the
best, and just as worthy of a superlative! (What did you intend to
say in a footnote? I've snipped the end of your post, but there was
no note there.) "Rare" isn't an extreme either, because there's
"blue", which is cooked still less.
| Quote: | Or, meaning 1 -- "thin." Could rare come from "thinly" cooked
("flimsily" cooked, cooked too little, having little worth or
plausibility)?
|
Then there's meaning 3: you might say a rare steak is "scarcely"
cooked, especially if you prefer it well-done.
--
Odysseus |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:40:13 GMT, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
<cdimmick@snet.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
There was a radio program on public radio a few years back
called Adventures in Good Music, hosted by Karl Haas
[for all I know it is still there, but not on my local station]
each showing of which was devoted to a study of a different
musical "theme", such as variations in cadenzas. Every once
in a while the theme for the day was entitled "Rare and well
done".
|
I have a book titled "Inside Music" written by Karl Haas. The
dustcover says "Adventures in Good Music" premiered in 1959.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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Charles Wm. Dimmick
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Daniel G. "Govende" McGrath wrote:
| Quote: | Ever since the year 2000, I have been constantly thinking about the
word "rare". (I won't say what caused it, but Mark Brader was largely
responsible.) At first its meaning--approximately "unusual" or "hard
to find"--was quite easy to deal with, and for some reason I did not
care much at all about the fact that "rare" had more than one meaning
(I did have some knowledge of "rare" = "lightly cooked [meat]" as
well). I would go onto Google (or Google Groups) all the time and
search for "rare" in various ways--because I liked the word so much.
But when I found that the results from Google would occasionally
pertain to "meat", I started thinking a little bit more about "rare
meat". In particular, I began to search for pages containing puns on
the two meanings!
|
There was a radio program on public radio a few years back
called Adventures in Good Music, hosted by Karl Haas
[for all I know it is still there, but not on my local station]
each showing of which was devoted to a study of a different
musical "theme", such as variations in cadenzas. Every once
in a while the theme for the day was entitled "Rare and well
done".
Charles |
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The autist formerly known
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:09 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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I remember Hans Hass and that disaster of a BBC series he originated, come
back Armand and Michaela Denis all is forgiven :)
then of course there were the Meistersingers and notwithstanding the
Hanseatic league and marching bands we get to ollie who is probably not an
octopus though who can really say for sure.
--
ūT
L'autisme c'est moi
"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"
"Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdimmick@snet.net> wrote in message
news:1MaNe.4588$Hn3.4194@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
| Quote: | Daniel G. "Govende" McGrath wrote:
There was a radio program on public radio a few years back
called Adventures in Good Music, hosted by Karl Haas
[for all I know it is still there, but not on my local station]
each showing of which was devoted to a study of a different
musical "theme", such as variations in cadenzas. Every once
in a while the theme for the day was entitled "Rare and well
done".
Charles |
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Peter Moylan
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:34 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Maria Conlon turpitued:
| Quote: | Odysseus wrote:
......"Rare" isn't an extreme either, because there's
"blue", which is cooked still less.
I guess that'd be something almost raw. Why "blue"?
|
I became aware of that term only after encountering it in French,
so I put it down to the fact that French colour words never seem
quite to match English words. Note, by the way, that the French
like their steaks really rare, so that the French "bien cuit"
(well done) is approximately equivalent to AmE "rare".
(They don't have a term for the way you like it. If forced to
invent a term, I imagine they'd come up with something like "shoe
leather".)
It strikes me that when talking about rare steaks we're not
really talking about the word that Daniel brought up. The "rare"
in the sense "lightly boiled" is now obsolete. Our rare steaks
can be lightly grilled, lightly barbecued, lightly fried, and
so on, but they're never lightly boiled.
--
Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software) |
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Peter Moylan
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:40 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Charles Wm. Dimmick turpitued:
| Quote: | There was a radio program on public radio a few years back
called Adventures in Good Music, hosted by Karl Haas
[for all I know it is still there, but not on my local station]
each showing of which was devoted to a study of a different
musical "theme", such as variations in cadenzas. Every once
in a while the theme for the day was entitled "Rare and well
done".
|
Which brings us right back to whoever it was who pointed out that
television is called a medium because it's neither rare nor well done.
--
Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software) |
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Earle Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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In article <debdu2$136$3@news.newcastle.edu.au>,
peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Wm. Dimmick turpitued:
There was a radio program on public radio a few years back
called Adventures in Good Music, hosted by Karl Haas
[for all I know it is still there, but not on my local station]
each showing of which was devoted to a study of a different
musical "theme", such as variations in cadenzas. Every once
in a while the theme for the day was entitled "Rare and well
done".
Which brings us right back to whoever it was who pointed out that
television is called a medium because it's neither rare nor well done.
|
*
"I wish I had a knob on my tv to turn up the intelligence.
There's one called brightness, but it doesn't seem to work."
--Leo Gallagher (on "Showtime")
earle
* |
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Grand Marshall X King
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: Autistiqui's story of the word "rare" |
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Peter Moylan wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Wm. Dimmick turpitued:
There was a radio program on public radio a few years back
called Adventures in Good Music, hosted by Karl Haas
[for all I know it is still there, but not on my local station]
each showing of which was devoted to a study of a different
musical "theme", such as variations in cadenzas. Every once
in a while the theme for the day was entitled "Rare and well
done".
Which brings us right back to whoever it was who pointed out that
television is called a medium because it's neither rare nor well done.
|
I thought it was called a medium because of all the weather forecasts
not to mention Yogi Bear and his side kick Auggiery...
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