| Author |
Message |
Simon Deng
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:04 pm
Post subject: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Some dictionaries say the word "worth" is an adjective. Why? It acts like
preposition.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ignotus
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
| Predicatively, what would it be worth? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Simon Deng wrote:
| Quote: | Some dictionaries say the word "worth" is an adjective. Why? It
acts
like preposition.
|
I agree it's not an ordinary adjective: it forms such sentences as
"He's worth listening to", but it's still an adjective. The
interesting thing about it is that it can _only_ be used in this
predicative way -- we can't say "*He's worth." I suppose the best way
to understand this is to think of it as meaning "worthy of": a single
word containing the ideas of both the adjective and the preposition.
--
Mike.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Simon Deng
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Thank you for your kindly reply. But I still don't understand why "worth" is
an adjective rather than preposition. The preposition phrase can also be
used in predicative way, but, unlike preposition, the adjective cannot have
its object. So "worth" should be classified as preposition.
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote >
| Quote: | I agree it's not an ordinary adjective: it forms such sentences as
"He's worth listening to", but it's still an adjective. The
interesting thing about it is that it can _only_ be used in this
predicative way -- we can't say "*He's worth." I suppose the best way
to understand this is to think of it as meaning "worthy of": a single
word containing the ideas of both the adjective and the preposition.
--
Mike.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Matti Lamprhey
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
"Simon Deng" <simondeng2002@yahoo.com> wrote...
| Quote: | "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote
I agree it's not an ordinary adjective: it forms such sentences as
"He's worth listening to", but it's still an adjective. The
interesting thing about it is that it can _only_ be used in this
predicative way -- we can't say "*He's worth." I suppose the best
way to understand this is to think of it as meaning "worthy of": a
single word containing the ideas of both the adjective and the
preposition.
Thank you for your kindly reply. But I still don't understand why
"worth" is an adjective rather than preposition. The preposition
phrase can also be used in predicative way, but, unlike preposition,
the adjective cannot have its object. So "worth" should be classified
as preposition.
|
NSOED classes this use of "worth" as a "predicative adjective (now
usually with prepositional force)".
Matti |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
| Quote: | "Simon Deng" <simondeng2002@yahoo.com> wrote...
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote
I agree it's not an ordinary adjective: it forms such sentences
as
"He's worth listening to", but it's still an adjective. The
interesting thing about it is that it can _only_ be used in this
predicative way -- we can't say "*He's worth." I suppose the best
way to understand this is to think of it as meaning "worthy of":
a
single word containing the ideas of both the adjective and the
preposition.
Thank you for your kindly reply. But I still don't understand why
"worth" is an adjective rather than preposition. The preposition
phrase can also be used in predicative way, but, unlike
preposition,
the adjective cannot have its object. So "worth" should be
classified
as preposition.
NSOED classes this use of "worth" as a "predicative adjective (now
usually with prepositional force)".
|
I think the only possible answer to "Why don't we call it a
preposition?" is that it doesn't _feel_ quite like one. I suppose it
doesn't feel quite like a preposition because we are vaguely
conscious of its origin as an adjective, and because we have a rather
rigidly set mental list of words which _are_ prepositions. As I said,
I think we unconsciously parse the word as a substitute for the
adjective-preposition combination "worthy of": since the adjective
part of the combination is indispensable, we call the whole thing an
adjective.
I wouldn't mind betting, though, that it will one day be called a
preposition, like such compounds as "beside", "despite", and
"notwithstanding"; but perhaps the time isn't ripe.
Nice question: thanks for asking it.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Worth is a NOUN that is sometimes used as an adjective, just like any
other noun.
He lives in the house.
He had a house party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
granatedit@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Worth is a NOUN that is sometimes used as an adjective, just like
any
other noun.
He lives in the house.
He had a house party.
|
I'm not at all sure of that -- certainly not sure enough to indulge
in capital letters on the subject. There do seem to be some
differences in forms found in A-S, though it isn't quite clear to me.
In any case, the question here -- and it's a good question -- is
why, when it behaves so much like a preposition, we don't call it
one. I was hoping for wisdom on the subject from John Lawler, who
knows more about it than you or I, but all I could find was a remark
in '96, when he said you could treat "worth" either as a very
peculiar adjective or as a very peculiar preposition. That seems to
fit reasonably well with my earlier answer, and I think it would be
misleading to let the OP regard the word as only a noun.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Picton
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:12 am
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Matti Lamprhey wrote:
NSOED classes this use of "worth" as a "predicative adjective (now
usually with prepositional force)".
I think the only possible answer to "Why don't we call it a
preposition?" is that it doesn't _feel_ quite like one. I suppose it
doesn't feel quite like a preposition because we are vaguely
conscious of its origin as an adjective, and because we have a rather
rigidly set mental list of words which _are_ prepositions. As I said,
I think we unconsciously parse the word as a substitute for the
adjective-preposition combination "worthy of": since the adjective
part of the combination is indispensable, we call the whole thing an
adjective.
I wouldn't mind betting, though, that it will one day be called a
preposition, like such compounds as "beside", "despite", and
"notwithstanding"; but perhaps the time isn't ripe.
|
This reminds me of the prepositional use of 'concerning' e.g. he wrote
concerning the car accident. All dictionaries now classify this use as
a preposition, but this was once disputed. The 1828 Webster's
dictionary says "This word has been considered a preposition, but most
improperly". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:58 am
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
David Picton wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
I wouldn't mind betting, though, that it will one day be called a
preposition, like such compounds as "beside", "despite", and
"notwithstanding"; but perhaps the time isn't ripe.
This reminds me of the prepositional use of 'concerning' e.g. he
wrote
concerning the car accident. All dictionaries now classify this
use
as a preposition, but this was once disputed. The 1828 Webster's
dictionary says "This word has been considered a preposition, but
most
improperly".
|
That's another very interesting one. I can feel in my guts why Noah
didn't like it, but there's no getting away from the fact that
"concerning" in that sense has a preposition as an exact synonym. Do
you know what he said about, or concerning, "worth"?
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Picton
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:32 am
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | David Picton wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
I wouldn't mind betting, though, that it will one day be called a
preposition, like such compounds as "beside", "despite", and
"notwithstanding"; but perhaps the time isn't ripe.
This reminds me of the prepositional use of 'concerning' e.g. he
wrote
concerning the car accident. All dictionaries now classify this
use
as a preposition, but this was once disputed. The 1828 Webster's
dictionary says "This word has been considered a preposition, but
most
improperly".
That's another very interesting one. I can feel in my guts why Noah
didn't like it, but there's no getting away from the fact that
"concerning" in that sense has a preposition as an exact synonym. Do
you know what he said about, or concerning, "worth"?
|
He simply lists it as an adjective.
However, I have looked in several online dictionaries and found that
some of them (including Merriam Webster Online) classify "worth" (in
the relevant sense) as a preposition. So it all depends on which
dictionary you consult... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:04 am
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
David Picton wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
That's another very interesting one. I can feel in my guts why
Noah
didn't like it, but there's no getting away from the fact that
"concerning" in that sense has a preposition as an exact synonym.
Do
you know what he said about, or concerning, "worth"?
He simply lists it as an adjective.
However, I have looked in several online dictionaries and found
that
some of them (including Merriam Webster Online) classify "worth"
(in
the relevant sense) as a preposition. So it all depends on which
dictionary you consult...
|
Yes, thanks. I was curious about Webster's way round it, though.
It occurred to me here to see what my nearest dictionary, Collins,
said about "re": sure enough, it says "preposition". COD9 likewise;
but COD5 hedges a bit, saying "abl. of _res_. As preposition." OED1,
though, will have none of it, and stoutly maintains it's a noun. I
find these transformations very interesting.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Evidently its called a preposition when its meaning is one of the
following, which includes a preposition. The word can function like a
preposition. I initially didn't understand the question properly and I
didn't see an example.
The following is the fourth definition listed by m-w Collegiate online:
Main Entry: 4worth Pronunciation Guide
Function: preposition
Date: 13th century
1 a : equal in value to b : having assets or income equal to
2 : deserving of <well worth the effort>
- worth one's salt : of substantial or significant value or merit
---------
Why the adjective (the second definition) is listed as archaic, I do
not understand:
Main Entry: 2worth Pronunciation Guide
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English weorth worthy, of (a
specified) value; akin to Old High German werd worthy, worth
Date: before 12th century
1 archaic : having monetary or material value
2 archaic : ESTIMABLE
- for all one is worth : to the fullest extent of one's value or
ability |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:44 am
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
Today is evidently my day; I read the entry wrong.... Sorry, folks, for
the noise. But "worth" appears to be a preposition when it's used to
mean something that *includes* a preposition such as:
a : equal in value to b : having assets or income equal to
2 : deserving of <well worth the effort>
- worth one's salt : of substantial or significant value or merit |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: Why is the word 'worth' an adjective |
|
|
granatedit@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Why the adjective (the second definition) is listed as archaic, I
do
not understand:
Main Entry: 2worth Pronunciation Guide
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English weorth worthy, of (a
specified) value; akin to Old High German werd worthy, worth
Date: before 12th century
1 archaic : having monetary or material value
2 archaic : ESTIMABLE
- for all one is worth : to the fullest extent of one's value or
ability
|
I'm puzzled here. Though inverted, the relation between "one" and
"all" in that example seems to me the same as that between "he" and
"a lot" in "he's worth a lot", not that in the now irregular "He is
worth." So I don't think it is an adjective there.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in