| Author |
Message |
Tony Cooper
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:59 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:36:33 +0100, Mike Barnes
<august2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | In alt.usage.english, Skitt wrote:
Areff wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
Areff wrote:
"having a row with" 680
"having a row with" site:.uk 523
"having a row with" site:.au 44
"having a row with" site:.nz 12
"having a row with" (Total for UK/AU/NZ): 579
I ask Coop to explain these results.
First, you explain why M-W doesn't say "Chiefly British".
AFAIC, M-W has lost all credibility by having unblockable popups.
I noticed that! Pop-unders.
I don't see them. Perhaps I'm doing the wrong thing. I went to www.m-
w.com, typed "row" into the dictionary search box, clicked OK, got the
answer. Not a pop-up, -under, or -around, anywhere in sight. My browser
is Firefox.
|
I'm also on Firefox. The popup from M-W does not pop up on your
screen like other popups. It appears briefly on the screen,
disappears, but remains as an open tab. My current popup from M-W is
an advert for University of Phoenix.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Areff
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Frances Kemmish spake thusly:
I don't really remember "tabs" as cigarettes, but I certainly heard
"teb-ends" for cigarette-ends (also "dog-ends" - do they still say
"dimps" in Manchester?) I also remember a Yorkshire friend saying that
one of his friends used to go through ashtrays looking for
cigarette-ends to smoke: they called him "Tab Hunter".
Sorry, I don't know any local dialect relating to cigarettes, having
never had to spend any time around the ghastly things.
|
In Old Liverpudlian they were "ciggies", weren't they? Early US
press coverage of the Beatlemania phenomenon would so suggest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Matthew Huntbach
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:10 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Don Aitken wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:18:46 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
the Omrud wrote:
Drifting a bit....I usually associate the use of "me" as used
above with Irish-speak. Last night I was watching "Shirley Valentine"
on HBO and noticed that the Liverpuddlian Shirley used "me" thusly.
It's used throughout the UK in informal speech. I use it meself.
I don't think it's even marked for class.
It can actually be grandee-speak, too; though I doubt if there are
many genuine survivors. I think I put it in the mouth of an
"eh-what?" squirearchical character for an AUE exchange with
Mickwick: it certainly would have fitted.
Wayland Young, in his book on the Profumo affair, had a interesting
take on this, applied to the way his upper-class clients regarded
Stephen Ward:
'There is a class of public-school Tory who can best be understood by
examining the prefix "M'".
|
As this suggests, there is a class difference here. The upper class
version is likely to be "m'" while the lower-class version is likely
to be a full "me".
As noted, it's universal in British casual English, nothing particulalry
Irish, northern or southern about it.
Matthew Huntbach |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
Ben Zimmer wrote:
| Quote: | Django Cat wrote:
[...]
Can of worms there. When 'The Spy who shagged me' was released
back
into the UK it was initially billed as 'The Spy who s****ed ne'.
When that got silly we all had to pretend that 'shag' wasn't
actually a mid-level taboo word roughly equivalent to US 'screw',
but a funny little exoticism we'd never met before (cf 'bonk').
[...]
let the original title stand. But it's doubtful that many
Singaporeans, despite the country's colonial heritage, would have
appreciated the taboo nature of BrE "shag" if there hadn't been
such
a fuss made over the title in the first place.
|
DC is right. I've never fully understood the sleight-of-hand by which
"shag" became an acceptable word for public use in Br. In my mind,
the word was actually slightly higher up the tabu scale than "screw",
and considerably more _vulgar_ than "fuck". I'd have said "fuck" in
front of people I wouldn't have said "shag" to, and I think I'd only
have used "shag" for a deliberately coarse effect. There was a brief
period during which neo-brutalist comics on Brit TV kept on and on
saying "shag" for no particular reason, and I found it toe-curling.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:54 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Don Aitken spake thusly:
Wayland Young, in his book on the Profumo affair, had a
interesting
take on this, applied to the way his upper-class clients regarded
Stephen Ward:
'There is a class of public-school Tory who can best be understood
by
examining the prefix "M'". "M'tutor" is what Etonians call the
intellectual lackeys to whom they are put out for education. The
little labial derives from the eighteenth-century pronunciation
"me";
"me father", "me daughter", "me butcher". Etonians use it
unselfconsciously for "m'tutor" and will recognise it as something
relevant to themselves if you say "m'tailor", "m'toothmaker" or
"m'tractor", though they might not recognise "m'procurer". But,
and
here is the point, it would be impossible to say "m'battalion",
"m'company sergeant major", "m'horse", or even "m'dog"; these are
things which are dignified by exposure to common risk with the
master
on the field of battle or the hunting field. If there is no risk
of
death or wounding together, the person used is expendable. If
there
is, the structure of romantic conservative loyalty, then which
nothing in England is stronger, comes into play. Brigadier John
Profumo is still alive.'
Interesting. I have heard Stephen Fry address Hugh Laurie as
"m'colleage" but I didn't know the background.
|
Very interesting: I haven't consciously noticed that m'/my thing.
Stephen Fry's use in that case may, of course, be a conscious
extension of the legal "m'learned friend" and "m'lud" -- a usage
which Wayland Young seems to ignore. I'm casting round my memory, and
the only living RP friend I can think of who says "me" for "my" in
other than casual speech is a lot younger than I, and was at King's
Canterbury: in his case it may well have started as a deliberate
ploy.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Duncanson
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 06:42:54 +1000, mark
<m.gallagher@student.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
| Quote: | Legend tells of a time when the mysterious hermit Areff of
me@privacy.net returned briefly from exile to say ...
Here's proof that "row" is chiefly British:
Google:
"having a row with" 680
"having a row with" site:.uk 523
"having a row with" site:.au 44
"having a row with" site:.nz 12
"having a row with" (Total for UK/AU/NZ): 579
I ask Coop to explain these results.
Oxbridge fanatics. "I say, old chap, I was just out having a row with
those jolly fellows from down the river when, would you believe it,
this magician fell out of his cube into the jolly-boat? It was a bit
of a rum deal, what?"
|
"They were out on the river. The rowers were rowing steadily until one
of them did something silly and they fell out. They stopped rowing and
continued rowing for about ten minutes. When their rowing was becoming
less energetic they started rowing steadily again. By the time they were
approaching the end of the row they had ended their row and rowed at a
good speed past the finishing point."
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.u.e) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
R H Draney
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
Mike Lyle filted:
| Quote: |
DC is right. I've never fully understood the sleight-of-hand by which
"shag" became an acceptable word for public use in Br. In my mind,
the word was actually slightly higher up the tabu scale than "screw",
and considerably more _vulgar_ than "fuck". I'd have said "fuck" in
front of people I wouldn't have said "shag" to, and I think I'd only
have used "shag" for a deliberately coarse effect. There was a brief
period during which neo-brutalist comics on Brit TV kept on and on
saying "shag" for no particular reason, and I found it toe-curling.
|
Did this movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098300/
ever make it to the UK?...if so, what did they call it, and were there any
special considerations for advertising it?...(in the title, the word refers to a
dance, or perhaps a haircut)....
We've had major films here with titles that couldn't be advertised in the more
prudish parts of the country..."Whore" was called "If You Can't Say It, See It"
in Texas...more recently there was "What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?", which you can
order at Borders by asking for "What the Bleep Do We Know!?"....r |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mUs1Ka
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:29 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: |
"They were out on the river. The rowers were rowing steadily until one
of them did something silly and they fell out. They stopped rowing and
continued rowing for about ten minutes. When their rowing was becoming
less energetic they started rowing steadily again. By the time they
were approaching the end of the row they had ended their row and
rowed at a good speed past the finishing point."
|
Weel may the keel row.
--
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the Omrud
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
Django Cat spake thusly:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
Jim Lawton spake thusly:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:50:32 -0500, "Django Cat" <nospam@please
wrote:
the Omrud wrote:
Or, as it says in Viz, "Hoy us me tabs".
Or in Oldham:
"Chuck us us tabs". Really.
Absolutely - that's RP round here, well not quite.
But what are these "tabs" of which you speak? Cigarettes I think.
Yes. North East dialect for cigarettes (which is why I mentioned
Viz). I hadn't heard the word in Lancashire.
I think it occurs in Oldham, but as you say, a Vizism which usually
means accurate to the NE. It was that first-person plural possesive
pronoun 'us' I was interested in, as in 'us mam'll kick us arses if
we're home late'.
|
ITYM "us Mam'll kick us arses if us's home late".
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:51 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
mUs1Ka wrote:
| Quote: | Peter Duncanson wrote:
"They were out on the river. The rowers were rowing steadily until
one of them did something silly and they fell out. They stopped
rowing and continued rowing for about ten minutes. When their
rowing
was becoming less energetic they started rowing steadily again. By
the time they were approaching the end of the row they had ended
their row and rowed at a good speed past the finishing point."
|
On the other hand, under ARA rules if one or more of them had fallen
out, they'd have been disqualified if they'd finished without a full
crew.
| Quote: |
Weel may the keel row.
|
Never understood this one: my sister says her eighty-four-foot
wrought-iron boat is a Humber keel, and I can't begin to imagine how
anybody could row it.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the Omrud
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
Frances Kemmish spake thusly:
| Quote: | I don't really remember "tabs" as cigarettes, but I certainly heard
"teb-ends" for cigarette-ends (also "dog-ends" - do they still say
"dimps" in Manchester?) I also remember a Yorkshire friend saying that
one of his friends used to go through ashtrays looking for
cigarette-ends to smoke: they called him "Tab Hunter".
|
Sorry, I don't know any local dialect relating to cigarettes, having
never had to spend any time around the ghastly things.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skitt
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
Mike Barnes wrote:
| Quote: | Skitt wrote:
Areff wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
Areff wrote:
"having a row with" 680
"having a row with" site:.uk 523
"having a row with" site:.au 44
"having a row with" site:.nz 12
"having a row with" (Total for UK/AU/NZ): 579
I ask Coop to explain these results.
First, you explain why M-W doesn't say "Chiefly British".
AFAIC, M-W has lost all credibility by having unblockable popups.
I noticed that! Pop-unders.
I don't see them. Perhaps I'm doing the wrong thing. I went to www.m-
w.com, typed "row" into the dictionary search box, clicked OK, got the
answer. Not a pop-up, -under, or -around, anywhere in sight. My
browser is Firefox.
|
Fascinating! Mine is Firefox, too. (That comma seems superfluous, but what
the heck.)
<checks the M-w site>
Well, what do you know! No pop-under this time.
Let's try IE -- hmm, no pop-under either. (Should that have a comma before
"either"?)
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mUs1Ka
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:19 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | mUs1Ka wrote:
Weel may the keel row.
Never understood this one: my sister says her eighty-four-foot
wrought-iron boat is a Humber keel, and I can't begin to imagine how
anybody could row it.
|
http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/Newcastle%20upon%20Tyne%20History.htm#SANDGATE_AND_THE_KEELMENAt the western end of the Newcastle Quayside is a street called Sandgatewhich once entered Newcastle by the Sand Gate of the town Wall. This streetis however better famed as the one time home of that famous Newcastlecommunity, the Keel Men, who were unique to the region. These were thehighly skilled boatmen, who handled the movement of coal from the riversideto ships on the River Tyne. The keelmen took their name from their smallvessels called Keels which could carry around 20 Tons of coal.The word keel was the first English word ever to be written down (recordedby a Welsh chronicler in the sixth century). Its etymology is explained byR.J.Charleton in his `History of Newcastle Upon Tyne' (1882). He reminds usthat when the heathen Anglo-Saxons invaded Britain in the fifth and sixthcenturies, they sailed across the the sea in boats called Ceols which; "after all these centuries... are still to be seen (on the Tyne) as thoughendowed with the enduring and persistent characteristics of the race thatbuilt them".Charleton claims that the design of the Keel was very similar to that of theAn
glo-Saxon Ceol. The earliest recorded use of Keels for transporting coalon the Tyne is in the early 1300's and it is possible that at this time theKeelmen had already established a community in the Sandgate district.--Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
R H Draney wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle filted:
[...]
period during which neo-brutalist comics on Brit TV kept on and on
saying "shag" for no particular reason, and I found it
toe-curling.
Did this movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098300/
ever make it to the UK?...if so, what did they call it, and were
there any special considerations for advertising it?...(in the
title,
the word refers to a dance, or perhaps a haircut)....
[...] |
I don't know. I suspect there's a deep inconsistency in official
attittudes to these things. There was never any problem when
shag-pile carpets were fashionable, even though they were quite
pleasant for the purpose.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
|
|
mUs1Ka wrote:
[...]
Clearly two different uses of the name: I looked in Ggl Images for
"keel newcastle", and got a much smaller, though still decidedly
chunky, craft. My sister's looks, in hull form, though hers has more
elaborate upper works, just like "Gainsborough" at:
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=+site:www.nhsc.org.uk+humber+keel
or
http://tinyurl.com/7hlp4
A fine little ship, anyhow, and we're all very fond of her: her
hundredth birthday is only six years away.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in