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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:33 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Areff filted:
| Quote: |
As for Baltimore, I'm not familiar enough with such accents, but no one on
_Homicide: Life on the Street_ talked like Snake.
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Quick!...get this man to a John Waters movie!...
I had a classmate in high school from the hairspray capital of the world, and
can still remember him talking about "flowting bowts" in a sinkful of water....
For another model, there's Spiro Agnew...or better yet (because of exaggeration
of the pertinent characteristics), the impersonations of Agnew done by Rich
Little and David Frye....r |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:41 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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"Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ddvrik$u0k$1@news.wss.yale.edu...
| Quote: | Jim Lawton wrote:
Do left-ponders ever use "wanker"?
Sure, rarely, but when it happens it's done with consciousness that it's a
British slang word. That's partly why it's humorous.
Does anyone still say "bird"
Dunno.
- and does it sound BrE to an American ear?
Unquestionably, except for the vast numbers of Americans who aren't even
familiar with this usage of 'bird'. We aren't all as knowledgeable about
British culture as Coop might lead you to believe.
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Oh, come on, RF. The Beatles brought "bird" to the US. I won't say that I
hear it used, but I think its meaning is clear and it is commonly known as
an import. |
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mark
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:42 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Legend tells of a time when the mysterious hermit Areff of
me@privacy.net returned briefly from exile to say ...
| Quote: | Here's proof that "row" is chiefly British:
Google:
"having a row with" 680
"having a row with" site:.uk 523
"having a row with" site:.au 44
"having a row with" site:.nz 12
"having a row with" (Total for UK/AU/NZ): 579
I ask Coop to explain these results.
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Oxbridge fanatics. "I say, old chap, I was just out having a row with
those jolly fellows from down the river when, would you believe it,
this magician fell out of his cube into the jolly-boat? It was a bit
of a rum deal, what?"
--
My housekeeper regarded him with jaundice in her eye;
She did not want a colony of hippotami;
She borrowed a machine-gun from her soldier-nephew, Percy,
And showed my hippopotamus no hippopotamercy.
- Patrick Barrington, "I Had a Hippopotamus" |
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John Dawkins
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:49 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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In article <de0394$565$4@news.wss.yale.edu>, Areff <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Default User wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
"Row", as in "having a row with his wife" is uncommon in AmE?
Pretty uncommon in my part of the nation. I doubt I've ever heard it in
conversation.
Here's proof that "row" is chiefly British:
Google:
"having a row with" 680
"having a row with" site:.uk 523
"having a row with" site:.au 44
"having a row with" site:.nz 12
"having a row with" (Total for UK/AU/NZ): 579
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Is the row in "having a row" pronounced to rhyme with "cow" or "flow"?
--
J. |
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Default User
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:10 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On 17 Aug 2005 19:46:40 GMT, "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com
wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
"Row", as in "having a row with his wife" is uncommon in AmE?
Pretty uncommon in my part of the nation. I doubt I've ever heard
it in conversation.
That might mean more if we knew if your part of the nation was next
door to the Unibomber's hide-away or just off the corner of Nostrand
Avenue and Flatbush Avenue.
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I'm pretty sure I've mentioned St. Louis in the past. Ah yes, Google
reports Aug. 11 in the "Go with" thread and Jul. 22 in the "North
State". discussion.
As I expect everyone to hang on my every word, I'd also expect you to
commit that to memory.
Brian |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:18 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:aiNMe.2386$Z%6.1332@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: |
"Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ddvrik$u0k$1@news.wss.yale.edu...
Jim Lawton wrote:
Do left-ponders ever use "wanker"?
Sure, rarely, but when it happens it's done with consciousness that it's
a
British slang word. That's partly why it's humorous.
Does anyone still say "bird"
Dunno.
- and does it sound BrE to an American ear?
Unquestionably, except for the vast numbers of Americans who aren't even
familiar with this usage of 'bird'. We aren't all as knowledgeable about
British culture as Coop might lead you to believe.
Oh, come on, RF. The Beatles brought "bird" to the US. I won't say that
I
hear it used, but I think its meaning is clear and it is commonly known as
an import.
|
I have just consulted my junior British informants (M 22, F 19) who are in
the other room watching TV. They tell me that "bird" is still current in
non-ornithological senses: "a young woman" (at least of mid teen age) - this
sense is used only by men/boys; "a fit - i.e. sexy - young person of either
sex" - a sense used by both sexes but only of the opposite sex (I haven't
got a young gay consultant); "an established girl-friend" as in "Me and me
bird went clubbin' in Bristol on Sat'day", for which an alternative is "me
missis". Now, I suppose, all very informal and rather "low", but "bird" was
used seriously for "girl" in Chaucer.
"Row" for a noisy altercation is, or so I guess, from the same word meaning
a din or unpleasant noise. Is this sense standard in AmE? But "row" can
equally be used for a non-noisy but emotionally vehement dispute or quarrel.
In case the point about pronunciation hasn't been clearly made for US
members, "row" in this sense rhymes with "how" and "now", not with "blow".
Alan Jones |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:34 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Areff wrote:
| Quote: | Default User wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
"Row", as in "having a row with his wife" is uncommon in AmE?
Pretty uncommon in my part of the nation. I doubt I've ever heard
it
in conversation.
Here's proof that "row" is chiefly British:
Google:
"having a row with" 680
"having a row with" site:.uk 523
"having a row with" site:.au 44
"having a row with" site:.nz 12
"having a row with" (Total for UK/AU/NZ): 579
I ask Coop to explain these results.
|
Meanwhile, ponder that "had a row with" Google-wide scores 8,930,
while on UK sites only it crawls in at 839.
Enjoy the Welshism "to give [somebody] a row", meaning "to administer
a severe reprimand".
--
Mike. |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:46 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZQNMe.10973$Wq4.2118@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| Quote: |
"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:aiNMe.2386$Z%6.1332@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
"Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ddvrik$u0k$1@news.wss.yale.edu...
Jim Lawton wrote:
Do left-ponders ever use "wanker"?
Sure, rarely, but when it happens it's done with consciousness that
it's
a
British slang word. That's partly why it's humorous.
Does anyone still say "bird"
Dunno.
- and does it sound BrE to an American ear?
Unquestionably, except for the vast numbers of Americans who aren't
even
familiar with this usage of 'bird'. We aren't all as knowledgeable
about
British culture as Coop might lead you to believe.
Oh, come on, RF. The Beatles brought "bird" to the US. I won't say
that
I
hear it used, but I think its meaning is clear and it is commonly known
as
an import.
I have just consulted my junior British informants (M 22, F 19) who are in
the other room watching TV. They tell me that "bird" is still current in
non-ornithological senses: "a young woman" (at least of mid teen age) -
this
sense is used only by men/boys; "a fit - i.e. sexy - young person of
either
sex" - a sense used by both sexes but only of the opposite sex (I haven't
got a young gay consultant); "an established girl-friend" as in "Me and me
bird went clubbin' in Bristol on Sat'day", for which an alternative is "me
missis". Now, I suppose, all very informal and rather "low", but "bird"
was
used seriously for "girl" in Chaucer.
"Row" for a noisy altercation is, or so I guess, from the same word
meaning
a din or unpleasant noise. Is this sense standard in AmE? But "row" can
equally be used for a non-noisy but emotionally vehement dispute or
quarrel.
In case the point about pronunciation hasn't been clearly made for US
members, "row" in this sense rhymes with "how" and "now", not with "blow".
|
From early childhood, I heard my mother in surprise and pain and perhaps
frustration emit a yell, "Rowdy-Dow". If she was in the kitchen, it meant
she had dropped a pan, perhaps on her foot. There was always a loud bang
when she used the word which, I suppose, kept her from voicing some
obscenity or other. At any rate, "row" to describe a disturbance or a fight
is not strange to me. Apparently, from the answers provided in this thread,
its use is not standard, common, or frequent. However, I think that anyone
hearing the word would understand it, whether or not they used it. I doubt
that familiarity with the word stems from acquaintance with Brit shows on
PBS.
M-W Online:
Main Entry: 5 row
Pronunciation: 'rau
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: a noisy disturbance or quarrel
Someone with a more comprehensive dictionary might give a current usage
distribution or a date. |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:50 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | mark spake thusly:
Legend tells of a time when the mysterious hermit the Omrud of
usenet.omrud@gmail.com returned briefly from exile to say ...
Tony Cooper spake thusly:
Drifting a bit....I usually associate the use of "me" as used
above with Irish-speak. Last night I was watching "Shirley
Valentine" on HBO and noticed that the Liverpuddlian Shirley
used "me" thusly.
It's used throughout the UK in informal speech. I use it meself.
I don't think it's even marked for class.
I don't recall any previous discussion here of the "singular us"
in UK speech (but not usually in writing). It is perfectly
common to refer to yourself as "us" under certain circumstances:
"Give us a cuddle", "Throw us that towel", "Pass us the salt,
please".
Chuck us me spanner, mate ... oh, strewth! I didn't say "peg" it
at me, ya burk!
Or, as it says in Viz, "Hoy us me tabs".
|
Or in Oldham:
"Chuck us us tabs". Really.
DV |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:51 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:02:23 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com
wrote:
Tony Cooper spake thusly:
Drifting a bit....I usually associate the use of "me" as used above
with Irish-speak. Last night I was watching "Shirley Valentine" on
HBO and noticed that the Liverpuddlian Shirley used "me" thusly.
It's used throughout the UK in informal speech. I use it meself.
I don't think it's even marked for class.
I've seen usages like "I'll get me coat" here (in aue), but it always
seems to be a deliberate affectation. It doesn't seem naturalspeak to
anyone in this group.
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Tis for me. More than 'my coat', and I'm posh.
DC |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:51 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper spake thusly:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:02:23 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com
wrote:
Tony Cooper spake thusly:
Drifting a bit....I usually associate the use of "me" as used
above >> with Irish-speak. Last night I was watching "Shirley
Valentine" on >> HBO and noticed that the Liverpuddlian Shirley
used "me" thusly.
It's used throughout the UK in informal speech. I use it meself.
I don't think it's even marked for class.
I've seen usages like "I'll get me coat" here (in aue), but it
always seems to be a deliberate affectation. It doesn't seem
naturalspeak to anyone in this group.
That's because it's never (for most values of never) written down,
except in jest. We all say it, but none of us writes it.
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Quite. (See above answer to TC). |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:53 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Jim Lawton wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:50:36 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com
wrote:
Jim Lawton spake thusly:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:02:23 GMT, the Omrud
usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote:
Tony Cooper spake thusly:
Drifting a bit....I usually associate the use of "me" as used
above >> >> with Irish-speak. Last night I was watching "Shirley
Valentine" on >> >> HBO and noticed that the Liverpuddlian Shirley
used "me" thusly.
It's used throughout the UK in informal speech. I use it meself.
I >> >don't think it's even marked for class.
It's not "me" though is it? It's actually just "mi" - a slovenly
way of saying >> "my".
Perhaps, but it's closer in sound to "me" than to "my".
I say "mi" as in "mix" - I've never thought about it, it's so much
part of having a northern accent, stemming from dialect :-
A'll get mi coit,
Ast' getten thi coit?
exactly the same vowel, actually.
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My dialect is Southern, & I say it too. |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:53 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Areff wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
I think that if I heard "I was chatting up this bird and some wanker
spilled his pint on me trousers." I might assume the speaker was
from somewhere in the isles.
Drifting a bit....I usually associate the use of "me" as used above
with Irish-speak. Last night I was watching "Shirley Valentine" on
HBO and noticed that the Liverpuddlian Shirley used "me" thusly.
I associate this possessive "me" with the Beatles myself; it seems to
occur in lots of nonstandard BrE dialects. TTBOMK possessive "me"
occurs naturally in no AmE dialect (other than Popeye's, if that can
be considered AmE).
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Yeah, right... |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Areff wrote:
| Quote: | Pat Durkin wrote:
From early childhood, I heard my mother in surprise and pain and
perhaps frustration emit a yell, "Rowdy-Dow". If she was in the
kitchen, it meant she had dropped a pan, perhaps on her foot.
There was always a loud bang when she used the word which, I
suppose, kept her from voicing some obscenity or other. At any
rate, "row" to describe a disturbance or a fight is not strange to
me. Apparently, from the answers provided in this thread, its use
is not standard, common, or frequent. However, I think that anyone
hearing the word would understand it, whether or not they used it.
I doubt that familiarity with the word stems from acquaintance with
Brit shows on PBS.
I agree with that last part -- no one could seriously contend that.
In my case, I think I learned "row" from exposure to British
literature. (I'm thinking particularly of one example -- there was
an excerpt of a scene in a BrE play that I and another student had to
perform in a class in 7th or 8th grade, but I can't remember what it
was [possibly Pygmalion?]. But I had probably already encountered
the word in other British works -- perhaps it occurs in T*lkien.)
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Americans don't say 'row' for an argument?
Weird.
DC |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Alan Jones <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | "R H Draney" <dadoctah@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:ddvvsi031e4@drn.newsguy.com...
Areff filted:
In my freshman year of college, there was a guy who used "wanker" a lot.
I think it might be related to the apparent appropriation of certain
pseudo-British accent features in forming the "stoner accent" (which is
heard on _The Simpsons_ in the 'Spike' character BTW).
Can't place Spike...if you mean "Snake", he sounds Baltimorean to me....
[...]
My RightPondian ears heard him actually as British, and slightly posh at
that: a drop-out from a public [BrE sense] school, perhaps. He doesn't seem
to be in the episodes we see at present.
|
I've thought he sounded posh, too. Isn't there an episode where he
refers to going to Middlebury, which is one of -- if not the -- most
expensive colleges in the USA?
--
SML |
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