| Author |
Message |
Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:10 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:14:08 -0400, Frances Kemmish
<fkemmish@optonline.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
DC is right. I've never fully understood the sleight-of-hand by which
"shag" became an acceptable word for public use in Br. In my mind,
the word was actually slightly higher up the tabu scale than "screw",
and considerably more _vulgar_ than "fuck". I'd have said "fuck" in
front of people I wouldn't have said "shag" to, and I think I'd only
have used "shag" for a deliberately coarse effect. There was a brief
period during which neo-brutalist comics on Brit TV kept on and on
saying "shag" for no particular reason, and I found it toe-curling.
I don't when the change occurred, but it obviously happened since I
moved over here. To me it seems incredibly crude - much more so than
"fuck", and that despite the fact that it seems to be word that is used
quite casually (with some different meaning that I've never quite got
hold of) in the US.
I have mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating: I once
read an article in our local paper in which a local mother mentioned
that her teenaged sons had made money during the summers by shagging
golfballs.
I should have read this post before I replied to another. I, too, |
shagged golf balls.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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"R H Draney" <dadoctah@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:de24vu02v3i@drn.newsguy.com...
| Quote: |
Did this movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098300/
ever make it to the UK?...if so, what did they call it, and were there any
special considerations for advertising it?...(in the title, the word
refers to a
dance, or perhaps a haircut)....
We've had major films here with titles that couldn't be advertised in the
more
prudish parts of the country..."Whore" was called "If You Can't Say It,
See It"
in Texas...more recently there was "What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?", which
you can
order at Borders by asking for "What the Bleep Do We Know!?"....r
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I was totally innocent of any knowledge about these last movies. I had to
google IMDB to find "Whore", just to be sure you weren't referring to "The
Best Little Whorehouse in Texas".
Though that title was the name of a popular Broadway play, I believe there
was some discussion of whether or not to keep it for the film. As it is, I
never saw it until it hit TV (with the same title as the play), but I recall
some argument about whether it would show in Texas at all, under any title.
> |
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: |
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:46:42 +0100, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
The use of "shag" as a verb in "The Cold Six Thousand" was one of the
book's puzzling features. In the sentence "Pete shagged a jeep"
(yes, 'jeep' not 'sheep') and others like it, context showed that
"shagged" apparently meant something like (mis)appropriated, which is
a meaning that I have never heard before. It could also have meant
"stole", "borrowed", "hired" or any other word that means "acquired",
for all I know.
That sounds like an author's creative variation of "snag" -- to
obtain.
|
There's an AmE slang sense of "shag" meaning 'to chase and bring back',
primarily in baseball usage (outfielders practice by "shagging" fly
balls). MWCD11 dates this sense to 1896. |
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Mike Barnes
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:45 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:46:42 +0100, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
The use of "shag" as a verb in "The Cold Six Thousand" was one of the
book's puzzling features. In the sentence "Pete shagged a jeep" (yes,
'jeep' not 'sheep') and others like it, context showed that "shagged"
apparently meant something like (mis)appropriated, which is a meaning
that I have never heard before. It could also have meant "stole",
"borrowed", "hired" or any other word that means "acquired", for all I
know.
That sounds like an author's creative variation of "snag" -- to obtain.
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Or "blag".
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:e77Ne.520$zD3.78@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
[...]>> http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/row
| Quote: | row
Pronunciation: (rou), [key]
-n.
1. a noisy dispute or quarrel; commotion.
2. noise or clamor.
-v.i.
to quarrel noisily.
-v.t.
Chiefly Brit.to upbraid severely; scold
[...] |
That transitive sense is completely unknown to me.
Alan Jones (Brit, in my 70s) |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Graeme Thomas spake thusly:
| Quote: | In article <MPG.1d6ecc9d38be00fc989e24@news.ntlworld.com>, the Omrud
usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes
Django Cat spake thusly:
I think it occurs in Oldham, but as you say, a Vizism which usually
means accurate to the NE. It was that first-person plural possesive
pronoun 'us' I was interested in, as in 'us mam'll kick us arses if
we're home late'.
ITYM "us Mam'll kick us arses if us's home late".
Us Mam'll kick our arses if us use "us" in any such manner. She is a
mild-mannered woman, but she becomes enraged if us kids say such things.
It's "common", apparently, and thus to be avoided.
|
Ah yes, "common". The worst think Mum could say about anybody in the
50s and 60s (I think she's mellowed a little now).
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:12:59 -0400, Ben Zimmer
bgzimmer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:46:42 +0100, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
The use of "shag" as a verb in "The Cold Six Thousand" was one of
the >> >book's puzzling features. In the sentence "Pete shagged a
jeep" >> >(yes, 'jeep' not 'sheep') and others like it, context
showed that >> >"shagged" apparently meant something like
(mis)appropriated, which is >> >a meaning that I have never heard
before. It could also have meant >> >"stole", "borrowed", "hired" or
any other word that means "acquired", >> >for all I know.
That sounds like an author's creative variation of "snag" -- to
obtain.
I've also heard it as "Can I shag a cigarette?" meaning "Will you give
me one of yours."
There's an AmE slang sense of "shag" meaning 'to chase and bring
back', primarily in baseball usage (outfielders practice by
"shagging" fly balls). MWCD11 dates this sense to 1896.
Also in golf. When I spent summers caddying, we shagged balls for
golfers. Country clubs had driving ranges, but instead of jeeps with
cages to retrieve the balls, caddies stood out in the field and
retrieved them. The members furnished their own golf balls which were
kept in a shag bag.
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fnarr fnarr |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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the Omrud wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | And, as a side issue, KUP isn't in the slightest middle class. I
would be surprised if any middle class UK fold here find it funny.
Hyacinth is trying to behave in a manner which she believes is the
way in which middle class people behave.
|
The theme, as old as comedy itself, is tired out as well as rather
distasteful. It's difficult to laugh at her without accusing oneself
of being in some way snobbish. If it were a fresh theme, or if her
concerns actually mattered, that wouldn't be an insuperable obstacle;
but as it's a worn-out subject, the only civilized reactions are pity
and boredom, which aren't entertaining.
--
Mike. |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zmgNe.922$5m3.122@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| Quote: |
"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:e77Ne.520$zD3.78@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
[...]>> http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/row
row
Pronunciation: (rou), [key]
-n.
1. a noisy dispute or quarrel; commotion.
2. noise or clamor.
-v.i.
to quarrel noisily.
-v.t.
Chiefly Brit.to upbraid severely; scold
[...]
That transitive sense is completely unknown to me.
|
To me, too.
But Mike Lyle reports:
"Enjoy the Welshism "to give [somebody] a row", meaning "to administer
a severe reprimand".
He reported that on the 17th, about 7 hours later in the day than this post
of yours. Of course, he still isn't using the v. t. but the "scolding" is
clear. |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:59 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Graeme Thomas spake thusly:
In article <MPG.1d6ecc9d38be00fc989e24@news.ntlworld.com>, the Omrud
usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes
Django Cat spake thusly:
I think it occurs in Oldham, but as you say, a Vizism which
usually >> means accurate to the NE. It was that first-person
plural possesive >> pronoun 'us' I was interested in, as in 'us
mam'll kick us arses if >> we're home late'.
ITYM "us Mam'll kick us arses if us's home late".
Us Mam'll kick our arses if us use "us" in any such manner. She is
a mild-mannered woman, but she becomes enraged if us kids say such
things. It's "common", apparently, and thus to be avoided.
Ah yes, "common". The worst think Mum could say about anybody in the
50s and 60s (I think she's mellowed a little now).
|
Did she also say 'ignorant', not meaning 'lacking in knowledge', but
'bad-mannered, boorish'?
DC |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Django Cat spake thusly:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
Graeme Thomas spake thusly:
In article <MPG.1d6ecc9d38be00fc989e24@news.ntlworld.com>, the Omrud
usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes
Django Cat spake thusly:
I think it occurs in Oldham, but as you say, a Vizism which
usually >> means accurate to the NE. It was that first-person
plural possesive >> pronoun 'us' I was interested in, as in 'us
mam'll kick us arses if >> we're home late'.
ITYM "us Mam'll kick us arses if us's home late".
Us Mam'll kick our arses if us use "us" in any such manner. She is
a mild-mannered woman, but she becomes enraged if us kids say such
things. It's "common", apparently, and thus to be avoided.
Ah yes, "common". The worst think Mum could say about anybody in the
50s and 60s (I think she's mellowed a little now).
Did she also say 'ignorant', not meaning 'lacking in knowledge', but
'bad-mannered, boorish'?
|
I don't think so, not that I remember.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:58 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Django Cat spake thusly:
the Omrud wrote:
Graeme Thomas spake thusly:
In article <MPG.1d6ecc9d38be00fc989e24@news.ntlworld.com>, the
Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes
Django Cat spake thusly:
I think it occurs in Oldham, but as you say, a Vizism which
usually >> means accurate to the NE. It was that first-person
plural possesive >> pronoun 'us' I was interested in, as in 'us
mam'll kick us arses if >> we're home late'.
ITYM "us Mam'll kick us arses if us's home late".
Us Mam'll kick our arses if us use "us" in any such manner.
She is a mild-mannered woman, but she becomes enraged if us
kids say such things. It's "common", apparently, and thus to
be avoided.
Ah yes, "common". The worst think Mum could say about anybody in
the 50s and 60s (I think she's mellowed a little now).
Did she also say 'ignorant', not meaning 'lacking in knowledge', but
'bad-mannered, boorish'?
I don't think so, not that I remember.
|
Very common usage amongst the older female population when I was
growing up in the 60s:
"Don't put your feet on the table, that's ignorant".
DC |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:55 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Django Cat wrote:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
Django Cat spake thusly:
[...]
Did she also say 'ignorant', not meaning 'lacking in knowledge',
but
'bad-mannered, boorish'?
I don't think so, not that I remember.
Very common usage amongst the older female population when I was
growing up in the 60s:
"Don't put your feet on the table, that's ignorant".
|
It seemed clear at the time that using "ignorant" like that wasn't a
high-status usage. It was like "disgusting", which for a time was in
use for things which people in positions of paid service or
administrative power got wrong. It was "disgusting" if the shop
didn't honour the guarantee, or the Council didn't fix the hole in
the road, or if the buses couldn't keep time. The intensifier
"definitely" seemed to occupy a similar social space around then,
too.
Actually, I heard some schoolgirls talking on the bus in Cheltenham a
few months ago, and one said "Steve n me decided we weren't going to
be ignorant: we were going to talk." I think that was the same usage.
--
Mike. |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:45 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:59:14 -0500, "Django Cat" <nospam@please>
wrote:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
Graeme Thomas spake thusly:
In article <MPG.1d6ecc9d38be00fc989e24@news.ntlworld.com>, the Omrud
usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes
Django Cat spake thusly:
I think it occurs in Oldham, but as you say, a Vizism which
usually >> means accurate to the NE. It was that first-person
plural possesive >> pronoun 'us' I was interested in, as in 'us
mam'll kick us arses if >> we're home late'.
ITYM "us Mam'll kick us arses if us's home late".
Us Mam'll kick our arses if us use "us" in any such manner. She is
a mild-mannered woman, but she becomes enraged if us kids say such
things. It's "common", apparently, and thus to be avoided.
Ah yes, "common". The worst think Mum could say about anybody in the
50s and 60s (I think she's mellowed a little now).
Did she also say 'ignorant', not meaning 'lacking in knowledge', but
'bad-mannered, boorish'?
My parents did, with the connotation that the person concerned acted |
that way not because he knew no better, but because he didn't give a
damn about other people, particularly those he felt were beneath him
in the social pecking order.
--
Robin Bignall
Hoddesdon, England |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Django Cat wrote:
the Omrud wrote:
Django Cat spake thusly:
[...]
Did she also say 'ignorant', not meaning 'lacking in knowledge',
but
'bad-mannered, boorish'?
I don't think so, not that I remember.
Very common usage amongst the older female population when I was
growing up in the 60s:
"Don't put your feet on the table, that's ignorant".
It seemed clear at the time that using "ignorant" like that wasn't a
high-status usage. It was like "disgusting", which for a time was in
use for things which people in positions of paid service or
administrative power got wrong. It was "disgusting" if the shop
didn't honour the guarantee, or the Council didn't fix the hole in
the road, or if the buses couldn't keep time. The intensifier
"definitely" seemed to occupy a similar social space around then,
too.
Actually, I heard some schoolgirls talking on the bus in Cheltenham a
few months ago, and one said "Steve n me decided we weren't going to
be ignorant: we were going to talk." I think that was the same usage.
|
That sounds like it - 'churlish' might be a synonym. |
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