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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:47 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Areff spake thusly:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
Frances Kemmish spake thusly:
I don't really remember "tabs" as cigarettes, but I certainly heard
"teb-ends" for cigarette-ends (also "dog-ends" - do they still say
"dimps" in Manchester?) I also remember a Yorkshire friend saying that
one of his friends used to go through ashtrays looking for
cigarette-ends to smoke: they called him "Tab Hunter".
Sorry, I don't know any local dialect relating to cigarettes, having
never had to spend any time around the ghastly things.
In Old Liverpudlian they were "ciggies", weren't they? Early US
press coverage of the Beatlemania phenomenon would so suggest.
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That's commonplace UK usage, although possibly lower class in tone.
--
David
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Mike Barnes spake thusly:
| Quote: | And in Oldham that's "us" pronounced "uzz" more often than not. Rhymes
with "bus", pronounced "buzz".
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.... just then a bee flew past, "buzz, buzz". So I jumped on the bus
and went home.
It doesn't work outside Lancashire.
--
David
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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R H Draney wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle filted:
DC is right. I've never fully understood the sleight-of-hand by
which "shag" became an acceptable word for public use in Br. In my
mind, the word was actually slightly higher up the tabu scale than
"screw", and considerably more vulgar than "fuck". I'd have said
"fuck" in front of people I wouldn't have said "shag" to, and I
think I'd only have used "shag" for a deliberately coarse effect.
There was a brief period during which neo-brutalist comics on Brit
TV kept on and on saying "shag" for no particular reason, and I
found it toe-curling.
Did this movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098300/
ever make it to the UK?...if so, what did they call it, and were
there any special considerations for advertising it?...(in the title,
the word refers to a dance, or perhaps a haircut)....
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Yes, and with the original title. It caused some hilarity, did poor
box office, but was popular with ornithologists.
DC |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:31 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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"Ben Zimmer" <bgzimmer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:43041EE6.D442BFF3@midway.uchicago.edu...
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:30:44 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
Here's proof that "row" is chiefly British:
Google:
"having a row with" 680
I ask Coop to explain these results.
First, you explain why M-W doesn't say "Chiefly British".
Man does not live by M-W alone. Other dictionaries, including Random
House Unabridged, the Compact OED, and Cambridge Advanced Learner's,
agree with Areff:
http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/row
row |
Pronunciation: (rou), [key]
-n.
1. a noisy dispute or quarrel; commotion.
2. noise or clamor.
-v.i.
to quarrel noisily.
-v.t.
Chiefly Brit.to upbraid severely; scold
| Quote: | http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/row_3?view=uk
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row3
/row/ informal, chiefly Brit.
. noun 1 an acrimonious quarrel. 2 a loud noise or uproar. 3 a severe
reprimand.
. verb have an acrimonious quarrel.
- ORIGIN of unknown origin.
| Quote: | http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=68829&dict=CALD
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(my comment: same as COED)
So, "chiefly British holds", by some incalculable majority, but I request
that one not blithely assume that the word is either unknown or unused in
the US. One might, perhaps, accept that some of us have some heritage from
British Isles that predates the both 20th C, much English literature, and
British productions on PBS. |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:45 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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On 17 Aug 2005, John Dawkins wrote
-snip-
| Quote: | Is the row in "having a row" pronounced to rhyme with "cow" or
"flow"?
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I've only ever heard the "cow" sound for this meaning.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Idiom: Mixture of Canadian and British
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:49 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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"the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6d9e59c55bab27989e1b@news.ntlworld.com...
| Quote: | R H Draney spake thusly:
the Omrud filted:
US TV programmes have a history of Wankers which have remained
uncensored when transferred to UK children's TV. IIRC, one of the
characters in Mork & Mindy was Mr Wanker, and the music for Buffy was
composed by one Thomas Wanker, whose name is in the end credits. Son
sat transfixed through the credits so that he could laugh at the
name. Every week.
I don't remember a Mr Wanker on "Mork & Mindy", but it was Peg's maiden
name and
the name of the county she came from on "Married With Children"....
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/morkepguide2.html:
(I'm sorry to quote this in full, but it is priceless to UK ears)
8. To Tell the Truth (11/21/78)
Unfamiliar with Earthlings' "white lies," Mork reviles Mindy's mean
landlord and the man who tried to put her family out of business.
Mork believes that humans are honest because Mindy lectured him on
"splinking", his Orkan word for lying. Then Arnold Wanker, who is
trying to oust Mindy's family from the music store property, dies
while he is in a rage at the store. His widow, Annie, and everyone
else - including Mindy - begin to chorus what a wonderful man Wanker
was. Unfamiliar with Earthlings' little white lies, Mork, hearing
the loving tributes being paid to the deceased landlord, who was the
meanest man in town, decides to jump-start him back to life. Out of
compassion for his grieving friends, Mork employs his Orkan power to
revive the deceased.
Guest cast: Logan Ramsey as Arnold Wanker, Fay DeWitt as Annie
Wanker, Jeremy West as the funeral home attendant, Stu Silver as the
paramedic.
It may be (have been) too middle class for you, but we see a Brit show here |
called "My Hero", a spoof about a super-hero, "ThermoMan(might be Thermal
Man)". Today's episode deals with the same concept (white lies), except
that Mo^^^Thermo reports to his home planet, and the earth is condemned to
be destroyed in 22 hours. |
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:55 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: |
"Ben Zimmer" <bgzimmer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:43041EE6.D442BFF3@midway.uchicago.edu...
Tony Cooper wrote:
First, you explain why M-W doesn't say "Chiefly British".
Man does not live by M-W alone. Other dictionaries, including Random
House Unabridged, the Compact OED, and Cambridge Advanced Learner's,
agree with Areff:
http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/row
row
Pronunciation: (rou), [key]
-n.
1. a noisy dispute or quarrel; commotion.
2. noise or clamor.
-v.i.
to quarrel noisily.
-v.t.
Chiefly Brit.to upbraid severely; scold
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/row_3?view=uk
row3
/row/ informal, chiefly Brit.
. noun 1 an acrimonious quarrel. 2 a loud noise or uproar. 3 a
severe reprimand.
. verb have an acrimonious quarrel.
- ORIGIN of unknown origin.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=68829&dict=CALD
(my comment: same as COED)
|
My bad-- RHUD only gives the "Chiefly Brit." label to the transitive
verb. It's a little odd that the US dictionaries are rather mum on the
pondiality issue, while Oxford and Cambridge have no problem labeling
the noun as primarily British.
| Quote: | So, "chiefly British holds", by some incalculable majority, but I
request that one not blithely assume that the word is either unknown
or unused in the US. One might, perhaps, accept that some of us have
some heritage from British Isles that predates the both 20th C, much
English literature, and British productions on PBS.
|
Agreed. |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:20 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Pat Durkin spake thusly:
| Quote: |
"the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6d9e59c55bab27989e1b@news.ntlworld.com...
R H Draney spake thusly:
the Omrud filted:
US TV programmes have a history of Wankers which have remained
uncensored when transferred to UK children's TV. IIRC, one of the
characters in Mork & Mindy was Mr Wanker, and the music for Buffy was
composed by one Thomas Wanker, whose name is in the end credits. Son
sat transfixed through the credits so that he could laugh at the
name. Every week.
I don't remember a Mr Wanker on "Mork & Mindy", but it was Peg's maiden
name and
the name of the county she came from on "Married With Children"....
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/morkepguide2.html:
(I'm sorry to quote this in full, but it is priceless to UK ears)
8. To Tell the Truth (11/21/78)
Unfamiliar with Earthlings' "white lies," Mork reviles Mindy's mean
landlord and the man who tried to put her family out of business.
Mork believes that humans are honest because Mindy lectured him on
"splinking", his Orkan word for lying. Then Arnold Wanker, who is
trying to oust Mindy's family from the music store property, dies
while he is in a rage at the store. His widow, Annie, and everyone
else - including Mindy - begin to chorus what a wonderful man Wanker
was. Unfamiliar with Earthlings' little white lies, Mork, hearing
the loving tributes being paid to the deceased landlord, who was the
meanest man in town, decides to jump-start him back to life. Out of
compassion for his grieving friends, Mork employs his Orkan power to
revive the deceased.
Guest cast: Logan Ramsey as Arnold Wanker, Fay DeWitt as Annie
Wanker, Jeremy West as the funeral home attendant, Stu Silver as the
paramedic.
It may be (have been) too middle class for you, but we see a Brit show here
called "My Hero", a spoof about a super-hero, "ThermoMan(might be Thermal
Man)". Today's episode deals with the same concept (white lies), except
that Mo^^^Thermo reports to his home planet, and the earth is condemned to
be destroyed in 22 hours.
|
Oooh, no, I love that. They are still showing new episodes here.
Yes, "Thermo Man".
Please don't think I disapprove of KUP because it's middle class. I
am utterly of the English middle class, unto the fifth or sixth
generation. I don't like KUP because it's not funny. If it's funny,
I'll enjoy any type of comedy, from The Good Life and To The Manor
Born to Till Death Us Do Part and Steptoe. Class don't enter into
it.
And, as a side issue, KUP isn't in the slightest middle class. I
would be surprised if any middle class UK fold here find it funny.
Hyacinth is trying to behave in a manner which she believes is the
way in which middle class people behave.
--
David
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:25 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 04:04:36 -0500, "Django Cat" <nospam@please>
wrote:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
Jim Lawton spake thusly:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:50:32 -0500, "Django Cat" <nospam@please
wrote:
the Omrud wrote:
Or, as it says in Viz, "Hoy us me tabs".
Or in Oldham:
"Chuck us us tabs". Really.
Absolutely - that's RP round here, well not quite.
But what are these "tabs" of which you speak? Cigarettes I think.
Yes. North East dialect for cigarettes (which is why I mentioned
Viz). I hadn't heard the word in Lancashire.
I think it occurs in Oldham, but as you say, a Vizism which usually
means accurate to the NE. It was that first-person plural possesive
pronoun 'us' I was interested in, as in 'us mam'll kick us arses if
we're home late'.
Pretty standard usage in Nottingham, too. |
--
Robin Bignall
Hoddesdon, England |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:46 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:29:53 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Ben Zimmer wrote:
Django Cat wrote:
[...]
Can of worms there. When 'The Spy who shagged me' was released
back
into the UK it was initially billed as 'The Spy who s****ed ne'.
When that got silly we all had to pretend that 'shag' wasn't
actually a mid-level taboo word roughly equivalent to US 'screw',
but a funny little exoticism we'd never met before (cf 'bonk').
[...]
let the original title stand. But it's doubtful that many
Singaporeans, despite the country's colonial heritage, would have
appreciated the taboo nature of BrE "shag" if there hadn't been
such
a fuss made over the title in the first place.
DC is right. I've never fully understood the sleight-of-hand by which
"shag" became an acceptable word for public use in Br. In my mind,
the word was actually slightly higher up the tabu scale than "screw",
and considerably more _vulgar_ than "fuck". I'd have said "fuck" in
front of people I wouldn't have said "shag" to, and I think I'd only
have used "shag" for a deliberately coarse effect. There was a brief
period during which neo-brutalist comics on Brit TV kept on and on
saying "shag" for no particular reason, and I found it toe-curling.
|
The use of "shag" as a verb in "The Cold Six Thousand" was one of the
book's puzzling features. In the sentence "Pete shagged a jeep" (yes,
'jeep' not 'sheep') and others like it, context showed that "shagged"
apparently meant something like (mis)appropriated, which is a meaning
that I have never heard before. It could also have meant "stole",
"borrowed", "hired" or any other word that means "acquired", for all I
know.
--
Robin Bignall
Hoddesdon, England |
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Graeme Thomas
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:54 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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In article <MPG.1d6ecc9d38be00fc989e24@news.ntlworld.com>, the Omrud
<usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes
| Quote: | Django Cat spake thusly:
I think it occurs in Oldham, but as you say, a Vizism which usually
means accurate to the NE. It was that first-person plural possesive
pronoun 'us' I was interested in, as in 'us mam'll kick us arses if
we're home late'.
ITYM "us Mam'll kick us arses if us's home late".
|
Us Mam'll kick our arses if us use "us" in any such manner. She is a
mild-mannered woman, but she becomes enraged if us kids say such things.
It's "common", apparently, and thus to be avoided.
--
Graeme Thomas |
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Frances Kemmish
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:14 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | DC is right. I've never fully understood the sleight-of-hand by which
"shag" became an acceptable word for public use in Br. In my mind,
the word was actually slightly higher up the tabu scale than "screw",
and considerably more _vulgar_ than "fuck". I'd have said "fuck" in
front of people I wouldn't have said "shag" to, and I think I'd only
have used "shag" for a deliberately coarse effect. There was a brief
period during which neo-brutalist comics on Brit TV kept on and on
saying "shag" for no particular reason, and I found it toe-curling.
|
I don't when the change occurred, but it obviously happened since I
moved over here. To me it seems incredibly crude - much more so than
"fuck", and that despite the fact that it seems to be word that is used
quite casually (with some different meaning that I've never quite got
hold of) in the US.
I have mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating: I once
read an article in our local paper in which a local mother mentioned
that her teenaged sons had made money during the summers by shagging
golfballs.
Fran |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:46:42 +0100, Robin Bignall
<docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
The use of "shag" as a verb in "The Cold Six Thousand" was one of the
book's puzzling features. In the sentence "Pete shagged a jeep" (yes,
'jeep' not 'sheep') and others like it, context showed that "shagged"
apparently meant something like (mis)appropriated, which is a meaning
that I have never heard before. It could also have meant "stole",
"borrowed", "hired" or any other word that means "acquired", for all I
know.
|
That sounds like an author's creative variation of "snag" -- to obtain.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.u.e) |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:10 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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Ben Zimmer filted:
| Quote: |
There's an AmE slang sense of "shag" meaning 'to chase and bring back',
primarily in baseball usage (outfielders practice by "shagging" fly
balls). MWCD11 dates this sense to 1896.
|
Used in the even more evocative expression "shagging fungoes"...(a folk
etymology has it that "fungo" is from "fun go": an attempt that doesn't count
for anything)....r |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:10 am
Post subject: Re: "...they're having a row with the wankers" |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:12:59 -0400, Ben Zimmer
<bgzimmer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:46:42 +0100, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
The use of "shag" as a verb in "The Cold Six Thousand" was one of the
book's puzzling features. In the sentence "Pete shagged a jeep"
(yes, 'jeep' not 'sheep') and others like it, context showed that
"shagged" apparently meant something like (mis)appropriated, which is
a meaning that I have never heard before. It could also have meant
"stole", "borrowed", "hired" or any other word that means "acquired",
for all I know.
That sounds like an author's creative variation of "snag" -- to
obtain.
|
I've also heard it as "Can I shag a cigarette?" meaning "Will you give
me one of yours."
| Quote: |
There's an AmE slang sense of "shag" meaning 'to chase and bring back',
primarily in baseball usage (outfielders practice by "shagging" fly
balls). MWCD11 dates this sense to 1896.
|
Also in golf. When I spent summers caddying, we shagged balls for
golfers. Country clubs had driving ranges, but instead of jeeps with
cages to retrieve the balls, caddies stood out in the field and
retrieved them. The members furnished their own golf balls which were
kept in a shag bag.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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