| Author |
Message |
FRAN
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Robert Bannister spake thusly:
FRAN wrote:
In my opinion, the homework sheets that are sent home are *NOT*
exercises where it is anticipated that all the work be exclusively that
of the student. Rather, these exercises (unlike "assignments") are
opportunities for the student and parent to spend time going over
matters raised. On the same sheet as this question appeared was:
But you, as a teacher, must be aware that only about 5% at best of
parents take any interest in their children's schooling at all. You only
have to look at the number who turn up for parents' nights.
If your "parents' nights" are the same as our "parents' evenings",
the UK experience is that these are the only times when parents set
foot inside their children's school.
|
Schoiols are very different here then. Parents are regularly up at the
school on one basis or another. Where I teach the primary school that
feeds the HS is very close, so that may not be typical. Certainly,
parents are encouraged to be involved though.
| Quote: | I would guess that there's more
than 75% attendance at parents' evenings in the schools around here,
at all ages from 5 to 18.
|
In my estimation and based on peer talk, at primary school, attendance
is about 70-80% in most urban areas.
In the first three years of high school, this falls to between 40-60%,
(the younger the student the more likely the visit, about 30% in year
10, and only a handful in 11 and 12 when everyone is properly
post-compulsory.
Fran
| Quote: | --
David
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CDB
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
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<de781@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124341700.197370.12130@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[...]
| Quote: | HUHUHUHUH???? LOST! Confused!!! WHAT are you saying??? WHO are
you??? HOW do you know Maidenal Leah?
|
In the non-Biblical sense, of course. |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
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FRAN spake thusly:
| Quote: |
the Omrud wrote:
Robert Bannister spake thusly:
FRAN wrote:
In my opinion, the homework sheets that are sent home are *NOT*
exercises where it is anticipated that all the work be exclusively that
of the student. Rather, these exercises (unlike "assignments") are
opportunities for the student and parent to spend time going over
matters raised. On the same sheet as this question appeared was:
But you, as a teacher, must be aware that only about 5% at best of
parents take any interest in their children's schooling at all. You only
have to look at the number who turn up for parents' nights.
If your "parents' nights" are the same as our "parents' evenings",
the UK experience is that these are the only times when parents set
foot inside their children's school.
Schoiols are very different here then. Parents are regularly up at the
school on one basis or another. Where I teach the primary school that
feeds the HS is very close, so that may not be typical. Certainly,
parents are encouraged to be involved though.
|
Oh, there's plenty of encouragement. But it's really hard to get
parents to join in, except, as I say, for parents' evening. This is
a constant source of annoyance for school governors from all areas,
so it's not just that we have very good schools in this area (parents
tend to stay away from good schools on the grounds that there's
nothing to complain about).
| Quote: | I would guess that there's more
than 75% attendance at parents' evenings in the schools around here,
at all ages from 5 to 18.
In my estimation and based on peer talk, at primary school, attendance
is about 70-80% in most urban areas.
In the first three years of high school, this falls to between 40-60%,
(the younger the student the more likely the visit, about 30% in year
10, and only a handful in 11 and 12 when everyone is properly
post-compulsory.
|
I would guess that there is still more than 50% attendance at post-
16.
--
David
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
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"the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6ece01a0b7af2c989e26@news.ntlworld.com...
| Quote: | FRAN spake thusly:
the Omrud wrote:
Robert Bannister spake thusly:
But you, as a teacher, must be aware that only about 5% at best of
parents take any interest in their children's schooling at all. You
only
have to look at the number who turn up for parents' nights.
If your "parents' nights" are the same as our "parents' evenings",
the UK experience is that these are the only times when parents set
foot inside their children's school.
Schoiols are very different here then. Parents are regularly up at the
school on one basis or another. Where I teach the primary school that
feeds the HS is very close, so that may not be typical. Certainly,
parents are encouraged to be involved though.
Oh, there's plenty of encouragement. But it's really hard to get
parents to join in, except, as I say, for parents' evening. This is
a constant source of annoyance for school governors from all areas,
so it's not just that we have very good schools in this area (parents
tend to stay away from good schools on the grounds that there's
nothing to complain about).
I would guess that there's more
than 75% attendance at parents' evenings in the schools around here,
at all ages from 5 to 18.
In my estimation and based on peer talk, at primary school, attendance
is about 70-80% in most urban areas.
I would guess that there is still more than 50% attendance at post-
16.
|
These figures are quite dissimilar to those I experienced as a high school
teacher. That may have changed since my time, however. Rob's 5% figure
seems more like what our school had, though some districts appeared to have
a better turnout. Most of the parents who attended had attentive children,
who seemed not to have problems in school.
Of course, elementary schools usually got a better turnout, but I doubt it
was near the 70% level. I should ask my niece, who teaches K-12 in a small
school with a mostly rural attendance. |
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Isabelle Cecchini
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:39 am
Post subject: NESB parents [was: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer) |
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FRAN a écrit :
[...]
| Quote: | NESB parents tend to show regardless of socio-economic status.
|
"NESB parents" was a total puzzle for me, until I got the explanation
from my dear old friend Google, who also told me that "NESB" with that
meaning seemed prevalent in Australia and New Zealand.
Is "NESB" easily understandable or indeed is it used in other
English-speaking countries?
--
Isabelle Cecchini |
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Oliver Cromm
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:51 am
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
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* Martin Ambuhl wrote:
| Quote: | "Democracy" is largely a noise. The "right"
answer to this question depends on the ideology of the teacher...
|
Yes. There is a number of words, like "democracy" or "liberty", which
are regarded so positive in wide circles that they become a badge of
pride, and the usage definition becomes "that what we have". A country's
name having "democratic" in it is a good indication that the country
isn't.
A definition of democracy that makes practical sense to me is:
A system where the people have a chance to get rid of
a bad government.
In practice, that doesn't prevent them from getting rid of good
governments quicker than of bad ones though ...
--
Strategy: A long-range plan whose merit cannot be evaluated until
sometime after those creating it have left the organization. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:06 am
Post subject: Re: NESB parents [was: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer) |
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Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
| Quote: | FRAN a écrit :
NESB parents tend to show regardless of socio-economic status.
"NESB parents" was a total puzzle for me, until I got the explanation
from my dear old friend Google, who also told me that "NESB" with that
meaning seemed prevalent in Australia and New Zealand.
Is "NESB" easily understandable or indeed is it used in other
English-speaking countries?
|
I had to go look just now, as I had no idea what "NESB parents" meant. It
turns out that I had those. I did not know that. Wild!
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:13 am
Post subject: Re: NESB parents [was: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer) |
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Isabelle Cecchini spake thusly:
| Quote: | FRAN a écrit :
[...]
NESB parents tend to show regardless of socio-economic status.
"NESB parents" was a total puzzle for me, until I got the explanation
from my dear old friend Google, who also told me that "NESB" with that
meaning seemed prevalent in Australia and New Zealand.
Is "NESB" easily understandable or indeed is it used in other
English-speaking countries?
|
Nope, I never heard it before and had to look it up.
--
David
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Paul Wolff
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:27 am
Post subject: Re: NESB parents [was: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer) |
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In message <43050069$0$27202$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
Isabelle Cecchini <isabelle.cecchini@wanadooINVALID.fr> writes
| Quote: | FRAN a écrit :
[...]
NESB parents tend to show regardless of socio-economic status.
"NESB parents" was a total puzzle for me, until I got the explanation
from my dear old friend Google, who also told me that "NESB" with that
meaning seemed prevalent in Australia and New Zealand.
Is "NESB" easily understandable or indeed is it used in other
English-speaking countries?
I, in England, have no idea what it means. |
Google <NSEB School> gives expansions, in order of occurrence:
National Seminar on Energy in Buldings
Nepal School Education Board
Norwegian School of Economics and Business
National Security Education Board
National Science & Engineering Board
Nuclear Safety Executive Board...
I don't think I'll bet on any of those.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:55 am
Post subject: Re: NESB parents [was: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer) |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 23:27:13 +0100, Paul Wolff
<bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | In message <43050069$0$27202$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
Isabelle Cecchini <isabelle.cecchini@wanadooINVALID.fr> writes
FRAN a écrit :
[...]
NESB parents tend to show regardless of socio-economic status.
"NESB parents" was a total puzzle for me, until I got the explanation
from my dear old friend Google, who also told me that "NESB" with that
meaning seemed prevalent in Australia and New Zealand.
Is "NESB" easily understandable or indeed is it used in other
English-speaking countries?
I, in England, have no idea what it means.
Google <NSEB School> gives expansions, in order of occurrence:
National Seminar on Energy in Buldings
Nepal School Education Board
Norwegian School of Economics and Business
National Security Education Board
National Science & Engineering Board
Nuclear Safety Executive Board...
I don't think I'll bet on any of those.
|
NESB
Non-English-speaking background
found in a glossary published by the
Southbank Institute
epicentre of education
Brisbane, Queensland
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:29 am
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
|
|
the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Robert Bannister spake thusly:
FRAN wrote:
In my opinion, the homework sheets that are sent home are *NOT*
exercises where it is anticipated that all the work be exclusively that
of the student. Rather, these exercises (unlike "assignments") are
opportunities for the student and parent to spend time going over
matters raised. On the same sheet as this question appeared was:
But you, as a teacher, must be aware that only about 5% at best of
parents take any interest in their children's schooling at all. You only
have to look at the number who turn up for parents' nights.
If your "parents' nights" are the same as our "parents' evenings",
the UK experience is that these are the only times when parents set
foot inside their children's school. I would guess that there's more
than 75% attendance at parents' evenings in the schools around here,
at all ages from 5 to 18.
That is stunning. I taught for 7 years in London before coming to |
Australia and rarely saw a parent - spent most of the evening chatting
to my colleagues. During the 14 years I spent in country Western
Australia, the turn-out was a little better, but I spent the last 16
years in a "high class" (judging by the cars the parents and students
drove) school in the city, and for me, most parents' nights* were a
waste of time. English and Maths used to get long queues, and there were
a few for the Science teachers, but the rest of us brought our marking
along.
* I think we still called them "parents' nights" although they generally
ran from 3.30-6.00 pm. In London, they were in the evening.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:32 am
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
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Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | These figures are quite dissimilar to those I experienced as a high school
teacher. That may have changed since my time, however. Rob's 5% figure
seems more like what our school had, though some districts appeared to have
a better turnout. Most of the parents who attended had attentive children,
who seemed not to have problems in school.
|
I should have pointed out that the one exception was for the first
meeting of the year when a lot of Year 8 (1st year high school) parents
did attend. Another crucial time - towards the end of Year 10 when
students are choosing their upper school subjects - one would have
expected to be heavily attended, but it wasn't.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:34 am
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
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FRAN wrote:
| Quote: | georgeh@ankerstein.org wrote:
FRAN wrote:
Max came home today with the standard homework sheet which sought from
him, amonst other things, an explanation of the concept of "democracy",
and provided about 8 cm of line space.
Dictatorship of a numerical majority.
GFH
That was certainly the fear of JS Mill. I think that bundled up with
the conception of the rule of the majority are two related concepts
a) protection of the rights of minorities and individuals from
majorities
b) restriction of the writ of a regime to those matters in which the
polity has a legitimate interest.
While these ideas need not be intrinsic to the concept of "rule by the
people", I think in practice, no state can dispense with them and
persuasively claim that it is democratic.
For example, one polity cannot indefinitely bind its successors without
violating their rights to establish a new majority and rescind what was
done. While a majority *might* vote for something that was effectively
a dictatorship, if it cannot later be rescinded in practice, then at
that point democracy has gone.
|
Note that John Howard has said he will tie up his Industrial Relations
thing in such a way that it can never be rescinded. He seems to have got
away with that with GST.
--
Rob Bannister |
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FRAN
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer |
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Robert Bannister wrote:
| Quote: | FRAN wrote:
georgeh@ankerstein.org wrote:
FRAN wrote:
Max came home today with the standard homework sheet which sought from
him, amonst other things, an explanation of the concept of "democracy",
and provided about 8 cm of line space.
Dictatorship of a numerical majority.
GFH
That was certainly the fear of JS Mill. I think that bundled up with
the conception of the rule of the majority are two related concepts
a) protection of the rights of minorities and individuals from
majorities
b) restriction of the writ of a regime to those matters in which the
polity has a legitimate interest.
While these ideas need not be intrinsic to the concept of "rule by the
people", I think in practice, no state can dispense with them and
persuasively claim that it is democratic.
For example, one polity cannot indefinitely bind its successors without
violating their rights to establish a new majority and rescind what was
done. While a majority *might* vote for something that was effectively
a dictatorship, if it cannot later be rescinded in practice, then at
that point democracy has gone.
Note that John Howard has said he will tie up his Industrial Relations
thing in such a way that it can never be rescinded.
|
I can't see how he could do that. In theory, what legislation he
proposes now can always be rescinded. This is an area of state
responsibility anyway, and if the Commonwealth decalres that 51(6) in
not an apt rubric for such legislation, then this falls to the ground.
Perhaps the HC might take that view in any event.
| Quote: | He seems to have got
away with that with GST.
|
Only with the co-operation of the states, who are the targets of the
revenue. Queensland, in particular, is doing well out of the current
division.
Fran
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Odysseus
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: NESB parents [was: Re: Democracy in ten words or fewer) |
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Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: |
snip
NESB
Non-English-speaking background
found in a glossary published by the
Southbank Institute
epicentre of education
Brisbane, Queensland
|
I just typed "define:NESB" into Google's search field and got exactly
one hit, giving the correct answer. I'm guessing it's no coincidence
that it's the same site you found: did you do the same?
--
Odysseus |
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