| Author |
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Peter H.M. Brooks
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:04 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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John Dawkins wrote:
| Quote: | In article <dcb1fa$5dk$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>,
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <peter@new.co.za> wrote:
A duodecagon is also known as a duodecahedron.
No. A dodecahedron is a (three dimensional) solid -- a 12-faced prism.
The most familiar of these is probably the regular dodecahedron with 12
pentagonal faces.
I think that this must be a case of the OED actually being wrong. It |
makes it clear that a dodecahedron is twelve-sided. It also defines the
duodecahedron as a solid. To compound this it further says that a
dodecahedron = a duodecahedron.
I'm quite surprised.
--
O how I cried when Alice died
The day we were to have wed!
We never had our Roadted Duck
And now she's a Loaf of Bread!
At nights I weep an cannot sleep,
Moonlight to me recalls
I never saw her Waterfront
Nor she my Waterfalls
- W.H. Auden verses for 'The Dog Beneath the Skin'
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Peter H.M. Brooks
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:07 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Alan Jones wrote:
| Quote: | "Peter H.M. Brooks" <peter@new.co.za> wrote in message
news:dcb49e$900$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
How can that be? The element -hedron means a face, not a side, and the
Greek prefix for 12 is dodeca-, not duodeca-. The NSOED definition for
dodecahedron (it has no duodeca- words at all) is "A **solid** figure or
object with twelve plane faces".
Yes, you are correct. I've retracted my previous statement. I'm afraid |
that I was misled by checking with the OED which had the error. It isn't
often that the OED is unreliable, so I thought that I was safe even
though I had a memory of a duodecahedron being a solid - I was surprised
by the definition but preferred to think myself wrong (and indeed the
first poster that corrected me to be wrong) than the OED.
--
"They cooked him on the Nine Stane Rig
And a grand brothe they made on't,
And had his gear and beasts awa'
His good wife and his daughters twa,
He, 'twas salt tae the broth they made on't.
- Scotch ballad, quoted by George MacDonald Fraser in 'The Candlemass Road'
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:54 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
| Quote: | Alan Jones wrote:
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <peter@new.co.za> wrote in message
news:dcb49e$900$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
How can that be? The element -hedron means a face, not a side,
and
the Greek prefix for 12 is dodeca-, not duodeca-. The NSOED
definition for dodecahedron (it has no duodeca- words at all) is
"A
**solid** figure or object with twelve plane faces".
Yes, you are correct. I've retracted my previous statement. I'm
afraid
that I was misled by checking with the OED which had the error. It
isn't often that the OED is unreliable, so I thought that I was
safe
even though I had a memory of a duodecahedron being a solid - I was
surprised by the definition but preferred to think myself wrong
(and
indeed the first poster that corrected me to be wrong) than the
OED. |
My brain hurts! I'm not sure now which bit you retracted, so I'll
report, for clarity, that OED1 is impeccable in its definitions on
this matter. It does have a brief entry with only two examples of the
"duodeca-" form, and says it's equivalent to the "dodeca-" form; but
it certainly doesn't say "dodeca-x" = "duodeca-x".
--
Mike. |
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Peter H.M. Brooks
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:21 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
My brain hurts! I'm not sure now which bit you retracted, so I'll
report, for clarity, that OED1 is impeccable in its definitions on
this matter. It does have a brief entry with only two examples of the
"duodeca-" form, and says it's equivalent to the "dodeca-" form; but
it certainly doesn't say "dodeca-x" = "duodeca-x".
Have you had a look at 'dodecahedral'? |
--
A young lady who faints, must be recovered; questions must be
answered, and surprises be explained. Such events are very interesting,
but the suspense of them cannot last long. A few minutes made Emma
acquainted with the whole. - Emma, Jane Austen
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:30 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
My brain hurts! I'm not sure now which bit you retracted, so I'll
report, for clarity, that OED1 is impeccable in its definitions on
this matter. It does have a brief entry with only two examples of
the
"duodeca-" form, and says it's equivalent to the "dodeca-" form;
but
it certainly doesn't say "dodeca-x" = "duodeca-x".
Have you had a look at 'dodecahedral'?
|
Yes: no mention of the "duo-" form there.
--
Mike. |
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Peter H.M. Brooks
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote:
Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
My brain hurts! I'm not sure now which bit you retracted, so I'll
report, for clarity, that OED1 is impeccable in its definitions on
this matter. It does have a brief entry with only two examples of
the
"duodeca-" form, and says it's equivalent to the "dodeca-" form;
but
it certainly doesn't say "dodeca-x" = "duodeca-x".
Have you had a look at 'dodecahedral'?
Yes: no mention of the "duo-" form there.
Indeed not - that is found in "dou'decagon, - 'hedron" - what is |
interesting is that it says 'Having the form of a dodecahedron,
twelve-sided'. A dodecahedron is a solid with twelve faces, not a
polygon with twelve sides.
--
When people ask me what I've got against pictures, I can only reply,
'What have you got against the well'- Quinten Crisp, Resident Alien
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:43 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote:
Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
My brain hurts! I'm not sure now which bit you retracted, so
I'll
report, for clarity, that OED1 is impeccable in its definitions
on
this matter. It does have a brief entry with only two examples
of
the
"duodeca-" form, and says it's equivalent to the "dodeca-" form;
but
it certainly doesn't say "dodeca-x" = "duodeca-x".
Have you had a look at 'dodecahedral'?
Yes: no mention of the "duo-" form there.
Indeed not - that is found in "dou'decagon, - 'hedron" - what is
interesting is that it says 'Having the form of a dodecahedron,
twelve-sided'. A dodecahedron is a solid with twelve faces, not a
polygon with twelve sides.
|
Ah, my deep and non-mathematical apologies! In my slipshod way, I
hadn't considered the distinction between sides and faces. They do
better with _hexahedron_.
--
Mike. |
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Peter H.M. Brooks
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
Indeed not - that is found in "dou'decagon, - 'hedron" - what is
interesting is that it says 'Having the form of a dodecahedron,
twelve-sided'. A dodecahedron is a solid with twelve faces, not a
polygon with twelve sides.
Ah, my deep and non-mathematical apologies! In my slipshod way, I
hadn't considered the distinction between sides and faces. They do
better with _hexahedron_.
Yes, they do. I'm still quite amazed at the error though. |
--
When people ask me what I've got against pictures, I can only reply,
'What have you got against the well'- Quinten Crisp, Resident Alien
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:56 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ksqs7Fvss4dU1@individual.net...
| Quote: | Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote:
Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote:
Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
My brain hurts! I'm not sure now which bit you retracted, so
I'll
report, for clarity, that OED1 is impeccable in its definitions
on
this matter. It does have a brief entry with only two examples
of
the
"duodeca-" form, and says it's equivalent to the "dodeca-" form;
but
it certainly doesn't say "dodeca-x" = "duodeca-x".
Have you had a look at 'dodecahedral'?
Yes: no mention of the "duo-" form there.
Indeed not - that is found in "dou'decagon, - 'hedron" - what is
interesting is that it says 'Having the form of a dodecahedron,
twelve-sided'. A dodecahedron is a solid with twelve faces, not a
polygon with twelve sides.
Ah, my deep and non-mathematical apologies! In my slipshod way, I
hadn't considered the distinction between sides and faces. They do
better with _hexahedron_.
|
Oh, crap. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:07 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Lyle" [...]
Ah, my deep and non-mathematical apologies! In my slipshod way, I
hadn't considered the distinction between sides and faces. They do
better with _hexahedron_.
Oh, crap.
|
Aw, shoot!
--
Mike. |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Peter Brooks:
| Quote: | Indeed not - that is found in "dou'decagon, - 'hedron" - what is
interesting is that it says 'Having the form of a dodecahedron,
twelve-sided'. A dodecahedron is a solid with twelve faces
|
Which are also called sides, although not in mathematical usage.
| Quote: | not a polygon with twelve sides.
|
Yes, it's not that.
--
Mark Brader "It's okay for us to love our country,
Toronto but we ought to spend most of our time
msb@vex.net making our country lovable." -- Andy Rooney |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:11 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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John Dawkins writes:
| Quote: | A dodecahedron is a (three dimensional) solid -- a 12-faced prism.
The most familiar of these is probably the regular dodecahedron with 12
pentagonal faces.
|
For "prism", read "polyhedron". A prism is a polyhedron formed by
joining corresponding vertices of two congruent and similarly
oriented polygons in parallel planes. One form of non-regular
dodecahedron would be a decagonal prism, having two faces that are
parallel decagons and 10 that are parallelograms, but other forms of
dodecahedron are not prisms.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | I am a mathematician, sir. I never permit myself
msb@vex.net | to think. --Stuart Mills (Carr: The Three Coffins) |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:21 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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Troy Steadman <troysteadman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | I have two words that I have been carrying around for 40 years without
ever being sure if they exist:
Half a "Hemidemisemiquaver" I was told at school is a
"Lemihemidemisemiquaver" but I've never encountered that prefix.
|
No, but 'sesqui' is used for half.
| Quote: | A 12 sided polygon (they said) is a "Duodecagon".
Were they pulling my leg?
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No, duodecagon is standard usage,
Jan |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:21 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Alan Jones filted:
How can that be? The element -hedron means a face, not a side, and the
Greek prefix for 12 is dodeca-, not duodeca-. The NSOED definition for
dodecahedron (it has no duodeca- words at all) is "A **solid** figure or
object with twelve plane faces".
Most readers of this thread are now picturing, if they're picturing anything a
t
all, the Euclidean dodecahedron with its twelve pentagonal faces, a favorite f
or
desk calendars showing one month per face...I went a-googling for an
illustration of the rhombic dodecahedron made of twelve identical lozenges, an
d
found this:
|
Your lines are too long.
| Quote: | http://mette.pederson.com/TOFU022401H.jpg
Nice change of pace....r
|
You might also be picturing the appropriate Escher print,
(there are several you can think of)
Best,
Jan |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:26 am
Post subject: Re: Lemi- = half; Duodeca = 12 |
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J. J. Lodder wrote:
| Quote: | Troy Steadman <troysteadman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I have two words that I have been carrying around for 40 years
without ever being sure if they exist:
Half a "Hemidemisemiquaver" I was told at school is a
"Lemihemidemisemiquaver" but I've never encountered that prefix.
No, but 'sesqui' is used for half.
|
One-and-a-half, surely? Hence "sesquipedalian", a word much liked by
at least one of my schoolmasters. We also have "sesquicentenary" and
such-like.
| Quote: |
A 12 sided polygon (they said) is a "Duodecagon".
Were they pulling my leg?
No, duodecagon is standard usage,
|
I really don't think so: I'd never heard of it till this thread.
These things are generally kept as Greek as possible, at least in
English.
--
Mike. |
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