Vocaboly.com

[heron stone]

If you think in english, you're confused.
- Edna Hosner










gendo: a way of thinking...
language as a path to liberation...

..unconscious, erroneous assumptions imposed upon our thinking
by the structure of the language (english) running in our
skulls are responsible for most of what is wrong with the
world in both the personal and planetary domains

when: wednesday and saturday afternoons, between 3 and 5
where: the cafe at Borders Books (91 at Bloomfield in Cerritos)

..look for the black and red gendo logo on my dark blue notebook
on the table

heron

unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net
must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net

[lhdbaby]

I'm guessing that the surgeon is the boy's mother or ... perhaps some
odd case of mistaken identity?

[heron stone]

[lhdbaby]

Well, OK, to me it was rather obvious but then my competence is
Classic Greek and so I find the nominal orientation of most every
Western European language a little wanting -- including Modern Greek.
Also, I read it as a riddle and not perhaps as the simple question
(requiring a simple answer) that it was intended to be. I do get your
point, though, and can appreciate the clarity of your alternative
writing-style. By the by, I'm writing from Virginia and have lived
here all my life.

[heron stone]

In article <1122661969.413004.153590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"lhdbaby" <LakeHurstDirigibleBaby@gmail.com> wrote:

[lhdbaby]

I don't believe that I saw "right through it" so much as viewed it as a
riddle. And when I discovered the answer, I understood your point.
Upon reading your bibliography I discovered that we have more than a
few books in common. I remember, for instance, reading Julian Jaynes'
book as a kid ... actively anticipating his general psychology through
my 20s ... learning of his death ... and I suppose THAT's a book that
will never appear. It's good to see that your sense of humor is
intact. So far as SoCal is concerned I've never been though my parents
met and married while in GradSchool at UCLA. For what it's worth, Good
Luck!

[lhdbaby]

Have you ever read E.H. Gombrich? Particularly _Art and Illusion_ ...
or any books of this particular ilk -- modern or "classic"? Or any of
Gaston Bachelard's (more) Scientific Works like _The Philosophy of No_?
Or Walter Benjamin? I can think of many if older writers whose
interests collapse or collapsed upon your subject, and beginning with
the Pre-Socratics! I mention the three former because they seem VERY
close, and yet. But I shall and do confess a fondness for 1970s Harold
Bloom. If you think AT ALL, you're confused ... as borne out by
Histories from Thucydides to Simon Schama! But I do tend to support
the Poets. So again, Good Luck.

[heron stone]

..yes, i've read "The Philosophy of No"

..i'm not familiar with either of the others
..i'll check them out

..i disagree with your assessment that "if you
think at all, you're confused
..thinking in natural, unreprogrammed english
is the problem
..it is possible, with much effort unfortun-
ately, to reprogram one's language machine
..further, being confused and knowing it is a
far superior position to being confused
and not knowing

..the real job before us is to raise a
children who are not programmed with all
the erroneous, unconscious assumptions with
which we have been burdened
..this needs to be accomplished before puberty
..after puberty, the brain goes into a different
mode, having settled basic epistemological
issues
..children need to be programmed with an up-to-
date epistemology


..thanks for the encouragement


heron

[lhdbaby]

Your metaphors of computation are frightening indeed! And I'm not
kidding! But where I stand with respect to the whole "AI" (that's an
"Eye," not the SteakSauce) Thing, Debate, Whatever, is likewise where I
stand with respect to (say) "the Economy," -- and it's not on any
ground that I'd call solid! And though I'm more than a little familiar
with what certain persons SAY, I have trouble convincing myself that
they ever really know what they're talking ABOUT. That they're clever,
or that I even find myself sometimes in agreement is beside the point:
which, so far as I'm concerned, is where real "thinking" begins. One
need not (I know) wear confusion "like a crown," but that Standard
English is the Chimera or the Dragon at which you tilt your spear or
bend your bow is to me, seriously doubtful. Attack ManKind; your
concerns are penultimately Ethical; and do it in whatever Form you
please. Your Style is Charming.

[heron stone]

[lhdbaby]

The "AI" or "Artificial Intelligence" Debate (the true concern of which
is ultimately the"official" determination of what might be styled "the
nature" of Biological Human Consciousness) is the concern of
scientist-philosophers like Edelman, Penrose, John Searle, Daniel
Dennett, David Chalmers, Etc. -- and I left off following it about
three years ago. Is the Brain a Computer? This seems to be at issue.
But in order to answer it "the problem of consciousness" must first be
resolved, ... um, etc. I tend to trust the writings of John Searle
most, but then he's the clearest writer of the group -- for what it's
worth. At any rate, the computer-speak (when speaking of the human
brain) in your previous missive but one put me in mind of it -- and
prompted the thought that you were yourself probably an advocate of the
"strong - AI" position -- or that the Brain's a Computer, Human
Consciousness (as an issue) a Bust, and therefore that the generation
of at least Human-Type Consciousness Artificially is More than just
likely, if not an actuality ALREADY .... When it became apparent that
what was at issue was the official Scientific Recognition of a Few
Definitions, I lost interest. Strong-AI thinkers tend to undervalue
Human Consciousness, Non-AI thinkers tend to overvalue It, Weak-AI
thinkers are subtler but generally tend to gravitate one way or the
other, and so I like them best. The best THINKER of the bunch is
probably Edelman, but he's also the one least sensitive to language
(though he obviously tries), and so I find him very difficult to read.
His style is just awful. So far as this AI-Debate Thingy is concerned
I take no stand. My impression, however, was that You did. Do you?

[heron stone]

[lhdbaby]

I have yet to yew and therefore probably rue it. I I M tho, but not so
frequently ... I'm rather fond of the "papyrus" script.

[heron stone]

In article <1122891136.924855.29870@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"lhdbaby" <LakeHurstDirigibleBaby@gmail.com> wrote:

[lhdbaby]

Have many problems myself with "mouth/ear" as you call it. For
instance, a certain oral politeness or general civility tends to color
or even to block my quicker thoughts or first impressions -- the very
ones "hand/eye" allows me to mitigate and place in a form that
satisfies my "gentle person" standards. Nonetheless, I would assume
that Skype requires both microphone and speakers? If so, I'd have to
get into to Charlottesville to get them and that wouldn't be possible
until the weekend. In other words, Perhaps. I'll let you know.