| Author |
Message |
Raymond S. Wise
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:56 pm
Post subject: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I liked |
|
|
Brian McKay, in his review of the film *Sky Captain and the World of
Tomorrow* at
http://www.efilmcritic.com/review.php?movie=10762&reviewer=258
Makes an error I find to be annoying, one I find to be intriguing, and a
usage which I particularly liked.
The annoying error is <repartee'>. The standard spelling is <repartee>.
McKay appears to have been influenced by the fact that the word is sometimes
pronounced /rEpAr'teI/ ("reh-par-TAY") and was borrowed from French. I don't
object to the pronunciation: That's a standard variant, however far it may
stray from the word's etymology. The word was borrowed from French
<repartie>. *The Century Dictionary* ( www.century-dictionary.com ) says in
the etymology of <repartee> the following: "Formerly also _reparty_ (the
spelling _repartee_ being intended at the time (the 17th century) to exhibit
the F. sound of the last syllable)[....]" The Century itself has only the
pronunciation /rEp@r'ti/ ("rep-uhr-TEE"), meaning that the pronunciation
which rhymes with <say> became acceptable sometime between the late 19th
century and now.
The English words <nee>, <fiancee>[1], and <negligee> rhyme with <say>. They
can all be spelled with an accent on the first <e>, although in French the
original of <negligee> was <negligé>--no second <e>. This is presumably the
inspiration for <repartee'>, with the <é> represented as <e'> and the accent
on the second <e>. Via Google I found on the Internet examples of both
<repartée> and <reparteé>.
The error I found to be intriguing is in the passage where McKay says that
the film is "[s]et in a sort of alternate-universe 1930's that is chock full
of anachronisitic technological advances[....]" I like that
"anachronisitic." It sounds like some sort of interesting additional
criticism compared to "anachronistic"--suggestions of "parasitic," for
example, at least in the pronunciation.
The usage I particularly liked was the description of the film found in the
following: "Sky Captain starts to feel like just another fluffy CGI
wankfest."
Note:
[1] I didn't check every dictionary, but those I checked had <fiancée> for
the only spelling of the English word. But I would expect there to still be
some sources, such as some newspapers, whose editors prefer to use
<fiancee>.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MC
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:02 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
In article <WY6dnYvc0YUmO9fcRVn-hw@gbronline.com>,
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Brian McKay, in his review of the film *Sky Captain and the World of
Tomorrow* at
http://www.efilmcritic.com/review.php?movie=10762&reviewer=258
Makes an error I find to be annoying, one I find to be intriguing, and a
usage which I particularly liked.
The annoying error is <repartee'>. The standard spelling is <repartee>.
|
From your post I was expecting to see " reparteé " at the site but
indeed it is " repartee' " -- and both are wrong in my view. It should
be "repartee" in current usage.
| Quote: | McKay appears to have been influenced by the fact that the word is sometimes
pronounced /rEpAr'teI/ ("reh-par-TAY") and was borrowed from French. I don't
object to the pronunciation: That's a standard variant, however far it may
stray from the word's etymology. The word was borrowed from French
repartie>. *The Century Dictionary* ( www.century-dictionary.com ) says in
the etymology of <repartee> the following: "Formerly also _reparty_ (the
spelling _repartee_ being intended at the time (the 17th century) to exhibit
the F. sound of the last syllable)[....]" The Century itself has only the
pronunciation /rEp@r'ti/ ("rep-uhr-TEE"), meaning that the pronunciation
which rhymes with <say> became acceptable sometime between the late 19th
century and now.
The English words <nee>, <fiancee>[1], and <negligee> rhyme with <say>. They
can all be spelled with an accent on the first <e>, although in French the
original of <negligee> was <negligé>--no second <e>.
|
Doesn't this have everything to do with *gender* in French?
Fiancé is the past participle of the verbs fiancer and se fiancer. It's
also a noun. And both take a masculine and feminine form, depending on
context.
Négligé (two accents) is the past participle of the verb négliger. And
it's an adjective. And both take a masculine and feminine form,
depending on context.
Né (née) is an adjective... same deal.
My preference when using fiancé and né in English is to follow the
French rules, but I am living in la Francophonie, so that may have an
influence on my choice. Negligé -- when referring to the garment, I
ignore the first accent.
| Quote: | This is presumably the
inspiration for <repartee'>, with the <é> represented as <e'> and the accent
on the second <e>. Via Google I found on the Internet examples of both
repartée> and <reparteé>.
|
I must be using a rented brain this morning because I'm having a hard
time figuring out exactly what you're objecting to in the next one:
| Quote: |
The error I found to be intriguing is in the passage where McKay says that
the film is "[s]et in a sort of alternate-universe 1930's that is chock full
of anachronisitic technological advances[....]" I like that
"anachronisitic." It sounds like some sort of interesting additional
criticism compared to "anachronistic"--suggestions of "parasitic," for
example, at least in the pronunciation.
|
AHD has this for "anachronism":
2. One that is out of its proper or chronological order, especially a
person or practice that belongs to an earlier time: A new age had
plainly dawned, an age that made the institution of a segregated picnic
seem an anachronism (Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Colored People: A Memoir
April 1995).
Anachronistic in the sense of "out of its proper or chronological order"
seems to me to be a reasonable word to use in connection to Sky Captain.
| Quote: |
The usage I particularly liked was the description of the film found in the
following: "Sky Captain starts to feel like just another fluffy CGI
wankfest."
Note:
[1] I didn't check every dictionary, but those I checked had <fiancée> for
the only spelling of the English word. But I would expect there to still be
some sources, such as some newspapers, whose editors prefer to use
fiancee>.
|
--
I could be just a writer very easily. I am not a writer.
I am a screenwriter, which is half a filmmaker.
--Paul Schrader
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:50 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
"MC" <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-FE4F5C.06023517092004@news.snafu.de...
| Quote: | In article <WY6dnYvc0YUmO9fcRVn-hw@gbronline.com>,
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
[...]
The English words <nee>, <fiancee>[1], and <negligee> rhyme with
say>. They
can all be spelled with an accent on the first <e>, although in
French the
original of <negligee> was <negligé>--no second <e>.
Doesn't this have everything to do with *gender* in French?
Fiancé is the past participle of the verbs fiancer and se fiancer.
It's
also a noun. And both take a masculine and feminine form, depending
on
context.
Négligé (two accents) is the past participle of the verb négliger.
And
it's an adjective. And both take a masculine and feminine form,
depending on context.
But the noun -- the garment -- is masculine in French, as Ray says; |
and as you yourself say below. As far as I know, it's never an
adjective in English, and certainly not a "fiance/e" noun applicable
to either sex..
| Quote: | Né (née) is an adjective... same deal.
My preference when using fiancé and né in English is to follow the
French rules, but I am living in la Francophonie, so that may have
an
influence on my choice. Negligé -- when referring to the garment, I
ignore the first accent.
[...]
I must be using a rented brain this morning because I'm having a
hard
time figuring out exactly what you're objecting to in the next one:
The error I found to be intriguing is in the passage where McKay
says that
the film is "[s]et in a sort of alternate-universe 1930's that is
chock full
of anachronisitic technological advances[....]" I like that
"anachronisitic." It sounds like some sort of interesting
additional
criticism compared to "anachronistic"--suggestions of
"parasitic," for
example, at least in the pronunciation.
AHD has this for "anachronism":
2. One that is out of its proper or chronological order, especially
a
person or practice that belongs to an earlier time: A new age had
plainly dawned, an age that made the institution of a segregated
picnic
seem an anachronism (Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Colored People: A
Memoir
April 1995).
Anachronistic in the sense of "out of its proper or chronological
order"
seems to me to be a reasonable word to use in connection to Sky
Captain.
[...] |
Are we here meeting that rarest of beasts in the semiotic jungle, a
word Ray doesn't fully know? It's very hard to believe, so do
hesitate before claiming a Herdwick, a Cormo, _and_ a Katydid, but my
money's on your sudden promotion to shepherd, with added Merino.
"Anachronism" works backwards _and_ forwards, surely?
And, yes, isn't "wankfest" a fine coinage (especially in that
context)?
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Duncanson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:50:23 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
"MC" <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-FE4F5C.06023517092004@news.snafu.de...
In article <WY6dnYvc0YUmO9fcRVn-hw@gbronline.com>,
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
[...]
The English words <nee>, <fiancee>[1], and <negligee> rhyme with
say>. They
can all be spelled with an accent on the first <e>, although in
French the
original of <negligee> was <negligé>--no second <e>.
Doesn't this have everything to do with *gender* in French?
Fiancé is the past participle of the verbs fiancer and se fiancer.
It's
also a noun. And both take a masculine and feminine form, depending
on
context.
Négligé (two accents) is the past participle of the verb négliger.
And
it's an adjective. And both take a masculine and feminine form,
depending on context.
But the noun -- the garment -- is masculine in French, as Ray says;
and as you yourself say below. As far as I know, it's never an
adjective in English, and certainly not a "fiance/e" noun applicable
to either sex..
Né (née) is an adjective... same deal.
My preference when using fiancé and né in English is to follow the
French rules, but I am living in la Francophonie, so that may have
an
influence on my choice. Negligé -- when referring to the garment, I
ignore the first accent.
[...]
I must be using a rented brain this morning because I'm having a
hard
time figuring out exactly what you're objecting to in the next one:
The error I found to be intriguing is in the passage where McKay
says that
the film is "[s]et in a sort of alternate-universe 1930's that is
chock full
of anachronisitic technological advances[....]" I like that
"anachronisitic." It sounds like some sort of interesting
additional
criticism compared to "anachronistic"--suggestions of
"parasitic," for
example, at least in the pronunciation.
AHD has this for "anachronism":
2. One that is out of its proper or chronological order, especially
a
person or practice that belongs to an earlier time: A new age had
plainly dawned, an age that made the institution of a segregated
picnic
seem an anachronism (Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Colored People: A
Memoir
April 1995).
Anachronistic in the sense of "out of its proper or chronological
order"
seems to me to be a reasonable word to use in connection to Sky
Captain.
[...]
Are we here meeting that rarest of beasts in the semiotic jungle, a
word Ray doesn't fully know? It's very hard to believe, so do
hesitate before claiming a Herdwick, a Cormo, _and_ a Katydid, but my
money's on your sudden promotion to shepherd, with added Merino.
"Anachronism" works backwards _and_ forwards, surely?
And, yes, isn't "wankfest" a fine coinage (especially in that
context)?
Mike.
I think you, MC and Mike Lyle have missed a point. |
The error that intrigued the OP was the spelling of "anachronisitic" with
its extra 'i'.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MC
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:42 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
In article <3vglk0h1aul7h1u48ijfuqapucpmim1t85@4ax.com>,
Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I think you, MC and Mike Lyle have missed a point.
The error that intrigued the OP was the spelling of "anachronisitic" with
its extra 'i'.
|
AAAAAAAARGGGGHHH!
--
I could be just a writer very easily. I am not a writer.
I am a screenwriter, which is half a filmmaker.
--Paul Schrader
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MC
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
In article <2qvtrfF14nij8U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Négligé (two accents) is the past participle of the verb négliger.
And
it's an adjective. And both take a masculine and feminine form,
depending on context.
But the noun -- the garment -- is masculine in French, as Ray says;
and as you yourself say below. As far as I know, it's never an
adjective in English, and certainly not a "fiance/e" noun applicable
to either sex..
|
I wasn'T sure if the French used the word as a noun meaning a garment
but having looked it up, you're right -- they do.
With two accents.
| Quote: |
Né (née) is an adjective... same deal.
My preference when using fiancé and né in English is to follow the
French rules, but I am living in la Francophonie, so that may have
an
influence on my choice. Negligé -- when referring to the garment, I
ignore the first accent.
[...]
I must be using a rented brain this morning because I'm having a
hard
time figuring out exactly what you're objecting to in the next one:
The error I found to be intriguing is in the passage where McKay
says that
the film is "[s]et in a sort of alternate-universe 1930's that is
chock full
of anachronisitic technological advances[....]" I like that
"anachronisitic." It sounds like some sort of interesting
additional
criticism compared to "anachronistic"--suggestions of
"parasitic," for
example, at least in the pronunciation.
AHD has this for "anachronism":
2. One that is out of its proper or chronological order, especially
a
person or practice that belongs to an earlier time: A new age had
plainly dawned, an age that made the institution of a segregated
picnic
seem an anachronism (Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Colored People: A
Memoir
April 1995).
Anachronistic in the sense of "out of its proper or chronological
order"
seems to me to be a reasonable word to use in connection to Sky
Captain.
[...]
Are we here meeting that rarest of beasts in the semiotic jungle, a
word Ray doesn't fully know? It's very hard to believe, so do
hesitate before claiming a Herdwick, a Cormo, _and_ a Katydid, but my
money's on your sudden promotion to shepherd, with added Merino.
|
Ah, but we *didn't* catch Ray asleep at the wheel, did we?
I usually have epretty good editing eyes, and a spekking mistake like
that wouldn't escape me, but this one did.
| Quote: |
"Anachronism" works backwards _and_ forwards, surely?
And, yes, isn't "wankfest" a fine coinage (especially in that
context)?
|
I had one myself just yesterday.
--
I could be just a writer very easily. I am not a writer.
I am a screenwriter, which is half a filmmaker.
--Paul Schrader
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:3vglk0h1aul7h1u48ijfuqapucpmim1t85@4ax.com...
[...]
Ray Wise wrote (and I should have thought about it before replying):
| Quote: | "anachronisitic." [...]
I think you, MC and Mike Lyle have missed a point.
The error that intrigued the OP was the spelling of
"anachronisitic" with
its extra 'i'.
|
Of course! I'm sorry, Ray: other things on my mind is a reason but
not an excuse. No career in the sheep trade for MC yet; but I retain
my post as a Blooper-Builder in Ordinary.
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MC
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
In article <copespaz-2E9A81.08461317092004@news.snafu.de>,
MC <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <2qvtrfF14nij8U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Négligé (two accents) is the past participle of the verb négliger.
And
it's an adjective. And both take a masculine and feminine form,
depending on context.
But the noun -- the garment -- is masculine in French, as Ray says;
and as you yourself say below. As far as I know, it's never an
adjective in English, and certainly not a "fiance/e" noun applicable
to either sex..
I wasn'T sure if the French used the word as a noun meaning a garment
but having looked it up, you're right -- they do.
With two accents.
|
And... I found one source where the same hapens in English (I'm a great
believer in research!)
http://tinyurl.com/5jvef
--
I could be just a writer very easily. I am not a writer.
I am a screenwriter, which is half a filmmaker.
--Paul Schrader
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Martin Ambuhl
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
MC wrote:
| Quote: | In article <WY6dnYvc0YUmO9fcRVn-hw@gbronline.com>,
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
I must be using a rented brain this morning because I'm having a hard
time figuring out exactly what you're objecting to in the next one:
The error I found to be intriguing is in the passage where McKay says that
the film is "[s]et in a sort of alternate-universe 1930's that is chock full
of anachronisitic technological advances[....]" I like that
"anachronisitic." It sounds like some sort of interesting additional
criticism compared to "anachronistic"--suggestions of "parasitic," for
example, at least in the pronunciation.
|
I was puzzled by this as well. It appears that Raymond is objecting to
what may be nothing more than a typo,
"anachronisitic" for
"anachronistic." If so, it seems hardly worth the effort to post about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Raymond S. Wise
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:19 pm
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
Martin Ambuhl wrote:
| Quote: | MC wrote:
In article <WY6dnYvc0YUmO9fcRVn-hw@gbronline.com>,
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
I must be using a rented brain this morning because I'm having a hard
time figuring out exactly what you're objecting to in the next one:
The error I found to be intriguing is in the passage where McKay
says that the film is "[s]et in a sort of alternate-universe 1930's
that is chock full of anachronisitic technological advances[....]"
I like that "anachronisitic." It sounds like some sort of
interesting additional criticism compared to
"anachronistic"--suggestions of "parasitic," for example, at least
in the pronunciation.
I was puzzled by this as well. It appears that Raymond is objecting
to what may be nothing more than a typo,
"anachronisitic" for
"anachronistic." If so, it seems hardly worth the effort to post
about it.
|
It was a typo produced like any other, but the result intrigued me.
"Anachronisitic" sounds like something interesting, some additional
criticism beyond simply "anachronistic." I can't place my finger on just
what--as I said, it suggested, at least in pronunciation, the word
"parasitic." "Your results may vary," as they say.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John O'Flaherty
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: | Martin Ambuhl wrote:
MC wrote:
In article <WY6dnYvc0YUmO9fcRVn-hw@gbronline.com>,
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
I must be using a rented brain this morning because I'm having a hard
time figuring out exactly what you're objecting to in the next one:
The error I found to be intriguing is in the passage where McKay
says that the film is "[s]et in a sort of alternate-universe 1930's
that is chock full of anachronisitic technological advances[....]"
I like that "anachronisitic." It sounds like some sort of
interesting additional criticism compared to
"anachronistic"--suggestions of "parasitic," for example, at least
in the pronunciation.
I was puzzled by this as well. It appears that Raymond is objecting
to what may be nothing more than a typo,
"anachronisitic" for
"anachronistic." If so, it seems hardly worth the effort to post
about it.
It was a typo produced like any other, but the result intrigued me.
"Anachronisitic" sounds like something interesting, some additional
criticism beyond simply "anachronistic." I can't place my finger on just
what--as I said, it suggested, at least in pronunciation, the word
"parasitic." "Your results may vary," as they say.
|
Or it could be a chronic anachronic inflammation- anachronisitis.
---
john |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joseph C Fineman
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:14 am
Post subject: Re: An annoying error, an intriguing error, and a usage I li |
|
|
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> writes:
| Quote: | The annoying error is <repartee'>. The standard spelling is
repartee>. McKay appears to have been influenced by the fact that
the word is sometimes pronounced /rEpAr'teI/ ("reh-par-TAY") and was
borrowed from French. I don't object to the pronunciation: That's a
standard variant, however far it may stray from the word's
etymology. The word was borrowed from French <repartie>. *The Century
Dictionary* ( www.century-dictionary.com ) says in the etymology of
repartee> the following: "Formerly also _reparty_ (the spelling
_repartee_ being intended at the time (the 17th century) to exhibit
the F. sound of the last syllable)[....]" The Century itself has only
the pronunciation /rEp@r'ti/ ("rep-uhr-TEE"), meaning that the
pronunciation which rhymes with <say> became acceptable sometime
between the late 19th century and now.
|
There once was a girl in Paree,
Whose knowledge of French was "Oui, oui".
When they asked "Parlez-vous?"
She replied "Same to you!"
-- A fine bit of fast repartee.
--- Joe Fineman jcf@world.std.com
||: Many are born impatient; the lucky ones become cabdrivers.  | |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in