"8" Days Inn: An answer
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"8" Days Inn: An answer
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Author Message
Maria Conlon
Guest





Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

To Tony, Areff, and many others:

Below, you can read the message I sent to Cendant Corporation (the Days
Inn people). Having just returned from an eight-day trip, I didn't see
Cendant's reply (also below) until this evening.

=== begin message===
A discussion group I belong to has an argument going about
Days Inn. One person says that the original name was "8 Days Inn" and
that he saw signs with that name. The others disagree, and think he's
confused.

So: Was Days Inn ever "8 Days Inn"? If so, what did the sign look
like?

Thank you.

Maria Conlon
maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net
===end message====


---- Original Message ----
From: Sullivan, Bridget
To: 'maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net'
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Days Inn-Conlon

Quote:
Ms. Conlon,

Thank you for contacting Days Inn Customer Service regarding your
request.

Cecil B. Day founded Days Inns in 1970. The name for the properties
were Days Inn.

Thank you for using Days Inn.com.

Respectfully,

Bridget Sullivan
Customer Service Representative
[----end Cendant's message---]


I'm sure this won't settle the matter, but there you have it.

Maria Conlon
You may insert "[sic]" as needed.
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Maria Conlon wrote:
Quote:
To Tony, Areff, and many others:

Below, you can read the message I sent to Cendant Corporation (the Days
Inn people). Having just returned from an eight-day trip, I didn't see
Cendant's reply (also below) until this evening.

=== begin message===
A discussion group I belong to has an argument going about
Days Inn. One person says that the original name was "8 Days Inn" and
that he saw signs with that name. The others disagree, and think he's
confused.

So: Was Days Inn ever "8 Days Inn"? If so, what did the sign look
like?

Thank you.

Maria Conlon
maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net
===end message====


---- Original Message ----
From: Sullivan, Bridget
To: 'maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net'
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Days Inn-Conlon

Ms. Conlon,

Thank you for contacting Days Inn Customer Service regarding your
request.

Cecil B. Day founded Days Inns in 1970. The name for the properties
were Days Inn.

This works for me. Coop?
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R H Draney
Guest





Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Areff filted:
Quote:

Maria Conlon wrote:

---- Original Message ----
From: Sullivan, Bridget
To: 'maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net'
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Days Inn-Conlon

Ms. Conlon,

Thank you for contacting Days Inn Customer Service regarding your
request.

Cecil B. Day founded Days Inns in 1970. The name for the properties
were Days Inn.

This works for me. Coop?

"The name were"?...someone should, at the very least, send Ms Sullivan an
Oy!...r
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Tony Cooper
Guest





Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 03:51:20 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

Quote:
Ms. Conlon,

Thank you for contacting Days Inn Customer Service regarding your
request.

Cecil B. Day founded Days Inns in 1970. The name for the properties
were Days Inn.

This works for me. Coop?

Doesn't change my mind a bit. The "letter" doesn't address the
question of the signs or the use of the 8.. There has been enough
verification here that 8 Days Inn was a term seen/used that it can't
be just ignored. Too many other reporting for this to be something
that I'm - as Maria phrases it - "confused" about.




--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Brian Wickham wrote:
Quote:
Absolutely. I know I saw the signs that said 8 Days Inn because we
noted them at the time, checked in a few times, and then subsequently
noted when the "8" disappeared a few years later. The corporate name
may have been "Days Inn" all along but the signs initially had an 8
above the "Days Inn", supered over a sunbust effect.

But no one here really disputes that. The question is, does a sign that
looks like this:

8
DAYS INN

signify that name of the motel is "Eight Days Inn", or does it
signify that the name is "Days Inn" and the motel features an $8
basic nightly rate? And who gets to decide -- the customer, the motel
manager, or "corporate" (as salespeople like Coop say)?

There was a Korean deli on Third Avenue around 38th Street that had an
awning thing with big letters that said "FLOWERS". I used to refer to
this deli as "Flowers" even though I knew that that wasn't the name of the
store -- they were just advertising the fact that they sold flowers there.
I was never really aware of what the actual name of the place was. Now,
yeah, if enough people start calling a place like that "Flowers" (and I
wonder whether that -s at the end made it easier, as though it were
"Flower's"?) maybe that becomes its name, at some point. But with Days Inn
that point was never reached -- they abandoned the practice of using the
"8" on the signs.
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Brian Wickham
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:17:16 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 03:51:20 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:

Ms. Conlon,

Thank you for contacting Days Inn Customer Service regarding your
request.

Cecil B. Day founded Days Inns in 1970. The name for the properties
were Days Inn.

This works for me. Coop?

Doesn't change my mind a bit. The "letter" doesn't address the
question of the signs or the use of the 8.. There has been enough
verification here that 8 Days Inn was a term seen/used that it can't
be just ignored. Too many other reporting for this to be something
that I'm - as Maria phrases it - "confused" about.


Absolutely. I know I saw the signs that said 8 Days Inn because we
noted them at the time, checked in a few times, and then subsequently
noted when the "8" disappeared a few years later. The corporate name
may have been "Days Inn" all along but the signs initially had an 8
above the "Days Inn", supered over a sunbust effect.

If only I had been smart enough to save all those receipts from 1974!

Brian
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Tony Cooper wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:21:56 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:

The question is, does a sign that
looks like this:

8
DAYS INN

signify that name of the motel is "Eight Days Inn", or does it
signify that the name is "Days Inn" and the motel features an $8
basic nightly rate? And who gets to decide -- the customer, the motel
manager, or "corporate" (as salespeople like Coop say)?

No, the question is "Were they known as 8 Days Inns?". If the
perception was that the name was 8 Days Inn, then the answer is "Yes".

What if the majority of motel services consumers and potential consumers
during 1970-1974 perceived that the name was "Days Inn" and not "8 Days
Inn"? I think to resolve this we'll have to get Jerry Friedman to build a
time machine and go back and get the Gallup people to do a poll. We could
do some research on "cool" while we're at it.
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Tony Cooper
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:21:56 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

Quote:
Brian Wickham wrote:
Absolutely. I know I saw the signs that said 8 Days Inn because we
noted them at the time, checked in a few times, and then subsequently
noted when the "8" disappeared a few years later. The corporate name
may have been "Days Inn" all along but the signs initially had an 8
above the "Days Inn", supered over a sunbust effect.

But no one here really disputes that.

Maria did. Strongly.

Quote:
The question is, does a sign that
looks like this:

8
DAYS INN

signify that name of the motel is "Eight Days Inn", or does it
signify that the name is "Days Inn" and the motel features an $8
basic nightly rate? And who gets to decide -- the customer, the motel
manager, or "corporate" (as salespeople like Coop say)?

No, the question is "Were they known as 8 Days Inns?". If the
perception was that the name was 8 Days Inn, then the answer is "Yes".




--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Maria Conlon wrote:
Quote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
Areff wrote:
The question is, does a sign that
looks like this:

8
DAYS INN

signify that name of the motel is "Eight Days Inn", or does it
signify that the name is "Days Inn" and the motel features an $8
basic nightly rate? And who gets to decide -- the customer, the
motel manager, or "corporate" (as salespeople like Coop say)?

No, the question is "Were they known as 8 Days Inns?".

I thought the question was "were they originally _NAMED_ 8 Days Inn."
That is: If there was an "8" on the sign (and several people remember
that being the case), was it part of the name or just a reference to the
price?

There's still at least two ways of looking at that question. Were they
"named" '8 Days Inn' by their customers or potential customers, or did
that group of people generally understand the "8" on the sign to be solely
a reference to price and not attached to the name of the hotel chain?
Well, we know that *some* people (Coop, Wicks, etc.) thought that the "8"
was part of the name. The other way of looking at it is, what did the
Days Inn company and the various motel managers and employees think the
name was, and what did they think the "8" was? The official view, today,
of Days Inn is that the "8" was never part of the name.

Quote:
As I said before, "8 Days Inn" is a stupid name.

I agree, for at least two reasons:

(a) If your goal is to associate the name with a low nightly rate, why
imply that the rate is actually for 8 days (or nights) rather than one
night? It's [@bsV":d], as Ray O'Hara would say.

(b) Why associate the name of a business with a particular nightly rate
when you have a goal of lasting more than a year or two and you have a
goal of expanding to various regions of the US (some of which have
significantly higher real estate prices and labor costs than others, and
some of which can command significantly higher bargain-basement motel
prices than others)?

I was going to make a comment on inflation, but it looks like the
inflation rate was reasonably low prior to the Great Oil Shock:

1970 5.29%
1971 3.27%
1972 3.65%
1973 9.39%
1974 11.80%

The big spike occurs in 1973, and it seems that that's about the time that
the "8" gets taken off the "Days Inn" motel signs. Well, anyway, Motel 6
certainly survived into the modern era.
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Tony Cooper wrote:
Quote:
You can ask any question, or make any statement, you choose to. My
statement is that Days Inns were once known as 8 Days Inn. If the
sign says 8 Days Inn, and the perception provided is that the name of
the chain is 8 Days Inn, then "known as" is what we're dealing with.

The factoid that a few or all of them bore the 8 Days Inn name, and
some may not of, is irrelevant. We form our perceptions based on what
we see and hear.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, the perception that some of us have is
that we've eaten at Subway restaurants. In reality, we've eaten at
restaurants owned by (or franchised by) Doctor's Associates, Inc. that
use the trademarked "Subway" name to give us the perception that we
are patronizing a Subway restaurant.

As an initial aside, Coop, I object to the characterization of the Subway
sandwich joints as "restaurants". But let's leave that aside aside.

Doctors Associates is *intentionally* giving the public the impression
that the proper name for the sandwich shop chain is "Subway". They have
commercials on TV, for example, that refer to it as "Subway" in a way that
clearly treats "Subway" as the actual name of the eatery.

If there were TV commercials for Days Inn in 1972 that called it "8 Days
Inn" in a way that made clear that "8 Days Inn" was the name of the motel
or of the motel chain, that would be one thing. But we don't know of any
such commercials. Heck, they were only charging $8 a night so they
probably couldn't afford much in the way of an advertising budget.

But what if Days Inn never intended to give the public the impression that
"8 Days Inn" was the name of the chain? Does that count for anything?

I don't have the answers, Coop. Just the questions.
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Donna Richoux wrote:
Quote:
Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:21:56 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:

The question is, does a sign that
looks like this:

8
DAYS INN

signify that name of the motel is "Eight Days Inn", or does it
signify that the name is "Days Inn" and the motel features an $8
basic nightly rate? And who gets to decide -- the customer, the motel
manager, or "corporate" (as salespeople like Coop say)?

Did anyone look in the TESS database of US trademarks? There, plain as
plain, is the text "8 Days Inn" with logo, first use 1970. It is marked
"Dead." The registrant was DAYS INNS OF AMERICA, INC.

Yes, I posted information about this some time ago. They specifically
registered the logo

8
DAYS INN

rather than the mere phrase "8 DAYS INN", as I recall. That to me suggests
that the "8" was not considered to be part of the *name* of the motel
chain -- just a feature of the *signs*. In the same way, the sunburst
element was not part of the *name* -- something that's obvious because you
can't pronounce a sunburst.

Quote:
Whether the Customer Service Representative who answered Maria was
totally wrong or only partially wrong is another matter. Strictly
speaking, a trademark held by the company and the name of the company
are two different things. Maria asked "Was Days Inn ever 8 Days Inn" --
no, but the Days Inn company ran hotels called "8 Days Inn".

We don't know that for certain. Define "called".

Quote:
I wonder what would happen if Maria wrote back to Ms. Sullivan, calling
her attention to that TESS page...

The TESS page doesn't prove anything. I think you might be misinterpreting
something there.

If I have a medical equipment company called "Tony Cooper's: A Place for
Medical Equipment", that won't stop me from having signs that say

42
TONY COOPER'S
A PLACE FOR MEDICAL EQUIPMENT

That might make some customers think that "42" is part of the name of the
business, but that doesn't mean it actually *is* from the business owner's
point of view. The "42" might just be serving a symbolic or decorative
role.
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Donna Richoux wrote:
Quote:
Skitt <skitt99@comcast.net> wrote:


That page has the following info (I am posting it, because it seems that it
might not be generally available without a log-in):

Oh, OK.

===================
[the Days Inn logo is shown here with an "8" within the sunburst pattern]

Word Mark 8 DAYS INN
Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 042. US 100. G & S: MOTEL SERVICES. FIRST
USE: 19700801. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19700801
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 010501 260106 260107 260121 261121
Serial Number 72382779
Filing Date February 3, 1971
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Registration Number 0925273
Registration Date December 7, 1971
Owner (REGISTRANT) DAYS INNS OF AMERICA, INC. CORPORATION GEORGIA 4763
BUFORD HWY. NE. ATLANTA GEORGIA 30341
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Disclaimer APPLICANT MAKES NO EXCLUSIVE CLAIM TO "$8 UP" APART FROM ITS MARK
AS SHOWN.
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
=======================

The disclaimer and its wording might be of come interest

That would tie to the remark one of those hotel industry people made, on
a page I wasn't able to find again later, saying there was a period when
a number of motels put "8" in their names. Days Inn is acknowledging in
the Disclaimer that there is nothing unique about doing that.

The really weird thing about that is that the mark itself contains no
mention of $8 UP. It seems like someone made some sort of error there --
maybe Days Inn also tried to register "$8 UP" or a mark containing such
language, separately?
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Maria Conlon
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Tony Cooper wrote:
Quote:
Areff wrote:
Brian Wickham wrote:

Absolutely. I know I saw the signs that said 8 Days Inn because we
noted them at the time, checked in a few times, and then
subsequently noted when the "8" disappeared a few years later. The
corporate name may have been "Days Inn" all along but the signs
initially had an 8 above the "Days Inn", supered over a sunbust
effect.

But no one here really disputes that.

Maria did. Strongly.

Strongly? I haven't disputed anything "strongly" here lately. A lot of
emotion has to go into "strongly"; I don't feel all that much emotion
about Days Inn.

Quote:
The question is, does a sign that
looks like this:

8
DAYS INN

signify that name of the motel is "Eight Days Inn", or does it
signify that the name is "Days Inn" and the motel features an $8
basic nightly rate? And who gets to decide -- the customer, the
motel manager, or "corporate" (as salespeople like Coop say)?

No, the question is "Were they known as 8 Days Inns?".

I thought the question was "were they originally _NAMED_ 8 Days Inn."
That is: If there was an "8" on the sign (and several people remember
that being the case), was it part of the name or just a reference to the
price?

Quote:
...........If the
perception was that the name was 8 Days Inn, then the answer is "Yes".

As I said before, "8 Days Inn" is a stupid name. If you want an old
name/number combination, think "Speedway 79."
http://www.gassigns.org/speedway.htm

(Does anyone remember the commercial/ad jingle that started out
"Speedway's going steady with Ethyl"?)

Maria Conlon
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Areff
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
Quote:
On 18 Jul 2005, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote
I don't think that the presence of a logo that incorporates a name
next to a number implies that the number was intended to be part
of the name and it's only weak evidence that the number was
perceived to be part of the name in the minds of a significant
number of consumers.

Ah: so you *are* trolling these days.

Cute.

You're accusing Erk of being a troll? WITWCT?
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Tony Cooper
Guest





Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: "8" Days Inn: An answer Reply with quote

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:14:28 GMT, "Maria Conlon"
<meconlon01@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
Areff wrote:
Brian Wickham wrote:

Absolutely. I know I saw the signs that said 8 Days Inn because we
noted them at the time, checked in a few times, and then
subsequently noted when the "8" disappeared a few years later. The
corporate name may have been "Days Inn" all along but the signs
initially had an 8 above the "Days Inn", supered over a sunbust
effect.

But no one here really disputes that.

Maria did. Strongly.

Strongly? I haven't disputed anything "strongly" here lately. A lot of
emotion has to go into "strongly"; I don't feel all that much emotion
about Days Inn.

It seemed strong enough to me. Not a "I never saw that", but more of
a "You must be confused if you think you saw that."

Quote:
The question is, does a sign that
looks like this:

8
DAYS INN

signify that name of the motel is "Eight Days Inn", or does it
signify that the name is "Days Inn" and the motel features an $8
basic nightly rate? And who gets to decide -- the customer, the
motel manager, or "corporate" (as salespeople like Coop say)?

No, the question is "Were they known as 8 Days Inns?".

I thought the question was "were they originally _NAMED_ 8 Days Inn."
That is: If there was an "8" on the sign (and several people remember
that being the case), was it part of the name or just a reference to the
price?

You can ask any question, or make any statement, you choose to. My
statement is that Days Inns were once known as 8 Days Inn. If the
sign says 8 Days Inn, and the perception provided is that the name of
the chain is 8 Days Inn, then "known as" is what we're dealing with.

The factoid that a few or all of them bore the 8 Days Inn name, and
some may not of, is irrelevant. We form our perceptions based on what
we see and hear.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, the perception that some of us have is
that we've eaten at Subway restaurants. In reality, we've eaten at
restaurants owned by (or franchised by) Doctor's Associates, Inc. that
use the trademarked "Subway" name to give us the perception that we
are patronizing a Subway restaurant.



Quote:
...........If the
perception was that the name was 8 Days Inn, then the answer is "Yes".

As I said before, "8 Days Inn" is a stupid name. If you want an old
name/number combination, think "Speedway 79."
http://www.gassigns.org/speedway.htm

See....that's strong. I don't see anything stupid about it. I think
it a clever way to make a marketing point by signage that is less
expensive than what would be required to say the same thing by
spelling it out.

I see nothing odd about Speedway 79. Like Phillips 66 gas stations,
and 76 gas stations, it's something that must have meant something to
the founders. If you haven't personally seen a Phillips 66 or a 76
station, see http://p66conoco76.conocophillips.com/index.htm so you
won't think I'm "confused" again.




--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL
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