| Author |
Message |
irwell
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:37 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake (WAS Re: Garibaldi Biscuits) |
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On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:42:14 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Areff wrote:
John Holmes wrote:
Areff wrote:
Will wrote:
I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but
is
not crunchy.
Interestingly enough, the 1914 trademark registration record for
"fig newton" apparently described the product as a "biscuit".
More
evidence of the former currency of "biscuit" (in the BrE sort of
sense) in AmE, along with Nabisco (National Biscuit Company).
Was it the case that the scone-like biscuit was a Southern usage
and
the other a northern one?
I believe so, and that is interesting. I think the scone-like
biscuit has become relatively nationalized (thanks in part to
Kentucky Fried Chicken [nka "KFC"]) but I, for one, still think of
it
as a Southern-origin thing.
I don't know if the two terms ever really competed, however. Maybe
"cookie/cracker biscuit" died out before Southern "scone biscuit"
went
national.
Also note that cookie/cracker "biscuit" does exist in my passive
vocabulary, and not just as a BrE term. I think of it as referring
to
certain sorts of cookies.
As good a moment as any to mention -- as I did at least one of the
other times we went round this mulberry bush -- that if you overcook
plain scones (experto crede) you get something very like the kind of
biscuit they used to take on expeditions. I can't easily believe this
a coincidence. I'm confident that I'd be able to make army-ration
biscuits on, at most, the third attempt (why weren't the things
wholemeal?).
|
I call them King Alfreds, after the Saxon hero who was supposed
to watch over the scones for his landlady. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:46 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake (WAS Re: Garibaldi Biscuits) |
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irwell wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:42:14 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
As good a moment as any to mention -- as I did at least one of the
other times we went round this mulberry bush -- that if you
overcook
plain scones (experto crede) you get something very like the kind
of
biscuit they used to take on expeditions. I can't easily believe
this
a coincidence. I'm confident that I'd be able to make army-ration
biscuits on, at most, the third attempt (why weren't the things
wholemeal?).
I call them King Alfreds, after the Saxon hero who was supposed
to watch over the scones for his landlady.
|
Our own Dear Queen, however, would never have been guilty of such a
culinary gaffe, having been a keen Girl Guide.
--
Mike.. |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Garibaldi Biscuits |
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|
"the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d3df156448731fa989d0b@news.ntlworld.com...
| Quote: | Linz spake thusly:
"Will" <billrigby@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121077370.633110.177770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I find Nairn's Oatcakes are also a fine accompaniment to all
cheeses, particularly Keen's or Montgomery's Cheddar, the two
very best makers.
The bonus to both these, and to many other good-for-cheese
crackers, is that small children can be persuaded that they are
the Best Biscuit Around. YoungBloke is very excited to get a half
an oatcake to see him through the hour's journey home from
nursery.
We gave Daughter no sugary food as a baby until we relented while
on holiday in Rhodes when she was nearly 2. It seemed to us that
denying her the heavenly chocolate cake served at the quay-front
cafes would be tantamount to child abuse. She was utterly
astonished and finished off by picking up the plate and licking it
clean. I have photographs.
|
YB gets sugary food - he gets a mini muffin or gingerbread or cake
with his tea at nursery every day - which is why he has been persuaded
that oatcakes are A Good Thing at home. I don't get too precious about
what he eats as long as he gets a healthy variety. |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Garibaldi Biscuits |
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"Will" <billrigby@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121346382.459014.103080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Linz wrote:
[..]
The bonus to both these, and to many other good-for-cheese
crackers, is that small children can be persuaded that they are
the Best Biscuit Around. YoungBloke is very excited to get a half
an oatcake to see him through the hour's journey home from
nursery.
Don't forget rice cakes! My version(s) of YoungBloke and
YoungerBloke both clamour for them when OldBloke gets home, hot
and weary from the undulating cycle ride from work, and refills
his glycogen stores with said cakes. ObAUE - are rice cakes
strictly cakes? Aren't they more like biscuits (AmE "cookies")
which to me implies crunch, where cake implies...well, not crunch.
|
Oh, he gets rice cakes too, but has a tendency to crumble them into
their constituent grains and then abandon them. |
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Richard Bollard
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Paul Wolff wrote:
In message <1gzqn8e.193ub2wnsmsgkN%trio@euronet.nl>, Donna Richoux
trio@euronet.nl> writes
Will <billrigby@hotmail.com> wrote:
I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but
is
not crunchy. So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit
and
a cake?
The decisive question is how do they behave when they age. Cakes
start
out soft and harden on staling, while biscuits start out hard and
soften on staling. No nonsense about twice cooked.
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked". But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to go
mouldy in store.
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by definition |
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
So, toast is biscuits, OK?
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra, Australia |
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Paul Wolff
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:29 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
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In message <ev2ud1d2p01pm1b537vahob7m9e5t006v9@4ax.com>, Richard Bollard
<richardbDELETETHIS@amt.canberra.edu.au> writes
| Quote: | On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Paul Wolff wrote:
In message <1gzqn8e.193ub2wnsmsgkN%trio@euronet.nl>, Donna Richoux
trio@euronet.nl> writes
Will <billrigby@hotmail.com> wrote:
I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but
is
not crunchy. So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit
and
a cake?
The decisive question is how do they behave when they age. Cakes
start
out soft and harden on staling, while biscuits start out hard and
soften on staling. No nonsense about twice cooked.
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked". But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to go
mouldy in store.
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
So, toast is biscuits, OK?
|
Your very own Dame Nellie's melba toast almost cracks it - thrice cooked
if I had to make it, unless there's a cunning short cut.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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Default User
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:22 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
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Richard Bollard wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked". But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to go
mouldy in store.
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
|
Also twice-baked potatoes.
Brian |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:01 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
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On 21 Jul 2005 21:22:32 GMT, the renowned "Default User"
<defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Richard Bollard wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked". But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to go
mouldy in store.
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
Also twice-baked potatoes.
Brian
|
And refried beans.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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R H Draney
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:17 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
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Paul Wolff filted:
| Quote: |
In message <ev2ud1d2p01pm1b537vahob7m9e5t006v9@4ax.com>, Richard Bollard
richardbDELETETHIS@amt.canberra.edu.au> writes
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
So, toast is biscuits, OK?
Your very own Dame Nellie's melba toast almost cracks it - thrice cooked
if I had to make it, unless there's a cunning short cut.
|
Aha!...a new one for the redundancy file: "zwieback biscuit"....r |
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CDB
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:16 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
|
|
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:rp60e1l6ab6e94kvibr2vt0ups56389f3b@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On 21 Jul 2005 21:22:32 GMT, the renowned "Default User"
defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:
Richard Bollard wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant
not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked".
But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch
applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in
a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to
go
mouldy in store.
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by
definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
Also twice-baked potatoes.
Brian
And refried beans.
|
OBfussiness: "refritos", in this context just means they get the
living pants fried off them. When we were in Mexico, our cook Emilia
Sánchez, a delightful woman and a good cook too, would put boiled
beans, some water, and lots of oil in a clay pot on a very low gas
flame and leave it there for at least a day, stirring occasionally.
No repetitions of the "frying" were required, nor any improvement on
the result possible. |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
|
|
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:cCYDe.8790$EP2.37954@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
| Quote: |
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:rp60e1l6ab6e94kvibr2vt0ups56389f3b@4ax.com...
On 21 Jul 2005 21:22:32 GMT, the renowned "Default User"
defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:
Richard Bollard wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant
not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked".
But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch
applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in
a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to
go
mouldy in store.
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by
definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
Also twice-baked potatoes.
Brian
And refried beans.
OBfussiness: "refritos", in this context just means they get the
living pants fried off them. When we were in Mexico, our cook Emilia
Sánchez, a delightful woman and a good cook too, would put boiled
beans, some water, and lots of oil in a clay pot on a very low gas
flame and leave it there for at least a day, stirring occasionally.
No repetitions of the "frying" were required, nor any improvement on
the result possible.
But "re-" means "overly, very much", in addition to "again". And it has an |
emphatic repetitive form: something like "requetepequeno"(=itsy bitsy teeny
weeny). I think I have heard it used to describe a relative some
generations beyond "abuelo": requeteabuelo, or something like that.
(requeteviejo)
> |
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CDB
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:37 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
|
|
"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:NB9Ee.1985$Fk4.1321@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: |
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:cCYDe.8790$EP2.37954@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
message
news:rp60e1l6ab6e94kvibr2vt0ups56389f3b@4ax.com...
On 21 Jul 2005 21:22:32 GMT, the renowned "Default User"
defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:
Richard Bollard wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it
meant
not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf
"high-baked".
But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch
applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air
in
a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not
to
go
mouldy in store.
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by
definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
Also twice-baked potatoes.
Brian
And refried beans.
OBfussiness: "refritos", in this context just means they get the
living pants fried off them. When we were in Mexico, our cook
Emilia
Sánchez, a delightful woman and a good cook too, would put boiled
beans, some water, and lots of oil in a clay pot on a very low gas
flame and leave it there for at least a day, stirring occasionally.
No repetitions of the "frying" were required, nor any improvement
on
the result possible.
But "re-" means "overly, very much", in addition to "again". And it
has an
emphatic repetitive form: something like "requetepequeno"(=itsy
bitsy teeny
weeny). I think I have heard it used to describe a relative some
generations beyond "abuelo": requeteabuelo, or something like that.
(requeteviejo)
Agreed. That's why I don't think frijoles refritos are in the |
bis-cuit class. |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: Cookie/Biscuit or Cake |
|
|
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:yjgEe.8923$EP2.38936@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
| Quote: |
"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:NB9Ee.1985$Fk4.1321@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:cCYDe.8790$EP2.37954@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
message
news:rp60e1l6ab6e94kvibr2vt0ups56389f3b@4ax.com...
On 21 Jul 2005 21:22:32 GMT, the renowned "Default User"
defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:
Richard Bollard wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it
meant
not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf
"high-baked".
But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch
applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air
in
a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not
to
go
mouldy in store.
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by
definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
Also twice-baked potatoes.
Brian
And refried beans.
OBfussiness: "refritos", in this context just means they get the
living pants fried off them. When we were in Mexico, our cook
Emilia
Sánchez, a delightful woman and a good cook too, would put boiled
beans, some water, and lots of oil in a clay pot on a very low gas
flame and leave it there for at least a day, stirring occasionally.
No repetitions of the "frying" were required, nor any improvement
on
the result possible.
But "re-" means "overly, very much", in addition to "again". And it
has an
emphatic repetitive form: something like "requetepequeno"(=itsy
bitsy teeny
weeny). I think I have heard it used to describe a relative some
generations beyond "abuelo": requeteabuelo, or something like that.
(requeteviejo)
Agreed. That's why I don't think frijoles refritos are in the
bis-cuit class.
|
I just remembered: Great grandpa is usually bisabuelo. I think that gets us
back into the biscuit/triscuit class, right? And I think I have seen or
heard bisbisabuelo.
But refritos in the bis-cuit class? Sure they are. They don't get all eaten
at the first sitdown, do they? Well, like chili and other stews, they are
all the better for having been reheated.
Oh, and chicken/pork/turkey stuffing (dressing) is in the biscuit class, too
( or tris- when reheated). I can recall someone (a Brit) telling me that if
you heat up the cream or other stuff before putting it into a dough or
batter, that makes the finished product bis-cuit, too.
I don't know enough about potting, but I understand that bisque pottery,
even the unglazed stuff, has been twice cooked. But terra cotta hasn't
been. |
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sage
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: Garibaldi Biscuits |
|
|
the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | irwell spake thusly:
Paris has a Garibaldi Boulevard.
Does it have squashed currants embedded in it?
|
You mean like Eccles cakes do?
Cheers, Sage |
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sage
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: Garibaldi Biscuits |
|
|
John Dean wrote:
| Quote: | Wood Avens wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:34:23 +0100, "John Dean"
john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
Laura F. Spira wrote:
Surely you've eaten a Lincoln biscuit?
http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/previous.php3?item=20
I've eaten many. But I didn't know they had a special name.
When I was a child (and I can'be that much older than you), surely all
biscuits had names. I can't think of one that was "just a biscuit".
Even today, there are remarkably few, and those mostly found in
assortment boxes. In the old days, they were delivered from the
grocer's in a paper bag; but the ones you'll find on the rolls on the
supermarket shelves today have the same names.
(Snip)
We used to get most of our biscuits via a neighbour who worked at
McVities where staff were allowed to bring out substandard product for a
nominal price. This may (or may not) be where the phrase "face like a
bag of broken biscuits" originated.
|
My uncle drove a delivery van for McVities (in Levenshulme, I think). He
was a happy chap... but I don't remember getting any freebies.
Cheers, Sage |
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