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DTP
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:56 pm
Post subject: About coffee |
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Sorry to bother you again.
In The Netherlands we have Coffee and Coffee 'wrong'
The later is Coffee with much to much hot milk poured in it.
Is there an English name for such a coffee? No, not Capuccino!
TIA
Frans |
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Tony Mountifield
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:06 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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In article <xNKdnUnZXbph71vfRVnyhA@casema.nl>,
DTP <imagemaker@invalid.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | Sorry to bother you again.
In The Netherlands we have Coffee and Coffee 'wrong'
The later is Coffee with much to much hot milk poured in it.
Is there an English name for such a coffee? No, not Capuccino!
|
I call it "milky coffee". I think the Italians call it Latte.
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org |
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Erick Andrews
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 10:56:25 UTC, "DTP" <imagemaker@invalid.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | Sorry to bother you again.
In The Netherlands we have Coffee and Coffee 'wrong'
The later is Coffee with much to much hot milk poured in it.
Is there an English name for such a coffee? No, not Capuccino!
TIA
Frans
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Possibly the 'coffee wrong' is made more with chicory and
the milk hides the flavor?
--
Best,
Erick Andrews
delete bogus to reply |
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HB
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:29 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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DTP wrote:
| Quote: | Sorry to bother you again.
In The Netherlands we have Coffee and Coffee 'wrong'
The later is Coffee with much to much hot milk poured in it.
Is there an English name for such a coffee? No, not Capuccino!
|
Van Dale translates the Dutch 'koffie verkeerd' as "café au lait" or
"coffee made with hot milk", which is not really accurate.
I believe English does not have a specific name for this and you'll
need to paraphrase it to express it in English.
- Herman - |
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:47 am
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 03:31:55 -0000, "Erick Andrews"
<eandrews@bogusstar.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Possibly the 'coffee wrong' is made more with chicory and
the milk hides the flavor?
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No, it all comes out of the same machine filled with the same powder
in any cafe you care to visit. Avoid ordering espresso in any cafe
which advertises its use of Douwe Egbert's coffee. DE might be very
nice for koffie verkeerd but it makes a dreadful espresso.
Giles
--
"My dream is that there be a Palestinian state living side by side in
peace with Iraq." George W. Bush, 24 June 2005 |
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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On Sat, 2 Jul 2005, Tony Mountifield wrote:
| Quote: | In article <xNKdnUnZXbph71vfRVnyhA@casema.nl>,
DTP <imagemaker@invalid.nl> wrote:
In The Netherlands we have Coffee and Coffee 'wrong'
The later is Coffee with much to much hot milk poured in it.
Is there an English name for such a coffee? No, not Capuccino!
I call it "milky coffee". I think the Italians call it Latte.
|
No, "latte" is what they call milk. "Caffe latte" is hot milk with
coffee added to it.
Coffee used just to be "black" or "white" in Britain. I think it was
in the 1980s that coffee served as "capuccino" became common - though
I remember ordering that once and finding it came as instant coffee
with spray cream on top. Coffee bars serving coffee in a variety of
styles seemed to appear overnight some time in the 1990s. The styles all
had authentic-sounding Italian names, although my limited experience of
Italy suggests they are far removed from how coffee is really served there.
It was at this point that "caffe latte" became used in Britain for
the style of coffee for which "coffee with much too much hot milk
poured into it" sounds a good description. This is commonly shortened
to "latte", though I am told Italians find this funny because to them
asking for just a "latte" rather than a "caffe latte" just means asking
for a glass of milk.
Matthew Huntbach |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:28 am
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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On Monday, in article
<Pine.LNX.4.61.0507040928310.18792@frank.dcs.qmul.ac.uk>
mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk "Matthew Huntbach" wrote:
| Quote: | Coffee used just to be "black" or "white" in Britain. I think it was
in the 1980s that coffee served as "capuccino" became common - though
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Nope: "froffy coffee" was common in the 1950s' "milk bars". They even
had Gaggia espresso machines, and the staff used to revel in producing
100dB roars whilst heating and frothing the milk with superheated steam.
Of course, these meeting places for the Tommy Steel generation had died
out by the 1970s, so reinvention was required; as with all reinventions,
(especially when a USAian influence is present) there was some dumbing
down.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:13 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
| Quote: | mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk "Matthew Huntbach" wrote:
Coffee used just to be "black" or "white" in Britain. I think it was
in the 1980s that coffee served as "capuccino" became common - though
Nope: "froffy coffee" was common in the 1950s' "milk bars". They even
had Gaggia espresso machines, and the staff used to revel in producing
100dB roars whilst heating and frothing the milk with superheated steam.
|
Yes, I'm aware of that, though as a folk memory rather than as an
actual recollection, since it's before my time.
But was coffee served in a variety of styles as in current coffee bars,
or was "froffy coffee" what you got when you asked for "coffee"?
Matthew Huntbach |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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On 6 Jul 2005 01:13:48 -0700, "Matthew Huntbach"
<mhuntbach@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk "Matthew Huntbach" wrote:
Coffee used just to be "black" or "white" in Britain. I think it was
in the 1980s that coffee served as "capuccino" became common - though
Nope: "froffy coffee" was common in the 1950s' "milk bars". They even
had Gaggia espresso machines, and the staff used to revel in producing
100dB roars whilst heating and frothing the milk with superheated steam.
Yes, I'm aware of that, though as a folk memory rather than as an
actual recollection, since it's before my time.
But was coffee served in a variety of styles as in current coffee bars,
or was "froffy coffee" what you got when you asked for "coffee"?
|
I had a Saturday job working at Joe Lyons in the late 60s in the days
of mass catering. They served something called "milk and a dash" -
i.e. hot milk with a dash of coffee in it. The coffee was ground (the
first time I'd ever seen it) but produced in some big machine that was
only cleaned out at the end of each day. I was never tempted to drink
it.
I remember a question on "Top of the Form" some years later - "What is
the secret of a really good cup of coffee?" The answer was given as
"Don't let the milk boil." The questionee just looked bewildered.
I've never even seen a Starbucks (I must get out more) but I suspect I
wouldn't have a clue what to ask for if I just wanted a cup of coffee.
--
Phil C. |
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:52 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Phil C. wrote:
| Quote: | mhuntbach@hotmail.com> wrote:
But was coffee served in a variety of styles as in current coffee bars,
or was "froffy coffee" what you got when you asked for "coffee"?
I had a Saturday job working at Joe Lyons in the late 60s in the days
of mass catering. They served something called "milk and a dash" -
i.e. hot milk with a dash of coffee in it. The coffee was ground (the
first time I'd ever seen it) but produced in some big machine that was
only cleaned out at the end of each day. I was never tempted to drink
it.
I remember a question on "Top of the Form" some years later - "What is
the secret of a really good cup of coffee?" The answer was given as
"Don't let the milk boil." The questionee just looked bewildered.
|
Was "milk and a dash" specifically on the menu as that, alongside
standard "coffee" or was it what you got when you asked for "coffee"?
My earliest memories of British coffee, and this would be in the late
60s, was that it was assumed to be a drink made with hot milk
(and Camp Coffee essence ...). This is what is now known as
"cafe latte" (I mean coffee made with hot milk - not with "coffee
essence") in the coffee bars - it reappeared under this name a few years ago.
| Quote: | I've never even seen a Starbucks (I must get out more) but I suspect I
wouldn't have a clue what to ask for if I just wanted a cup of coffee.
|
Starbucks are unavoidable in central London - it sometimes feels as
if they have a policy that there must be one in view wherever you
are. In the suburbs, however, they only seem to open in the more
upmarket places - in south-east London where I live they have branches
in Blackheath and Bromley, but I can't think of one anywhere else.
They serve coffee in three sizes, whose names I forget, but the smallest
size is still too big. "Cafe Americano" is the name they give to what
we would probably now regard as standard coffee i.e. weakish and served
black but you can add a dash of milk to it.
Matthew Huntbach |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:52:08 +0100, Matthew Huntbach
<mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Phil C. wrote:
I had a Saturday job working at Joe Lyons in the late 60s in the days
of mass catering. They served something called "milk and a dash" -
i.e. hot milk with a dash of coffee in it. The coffee was ground (the
first time I'd ever seen it) but produced in some big machine that was
only cleaned out at the end of each day. I was never tempted to drink
it.
Was "milk and a dash" specifically on the menu as that, alongside
standard "coffee" or was it what you got when you asked for "coffee"?
|
It was a menu choice in its own right - often called "milky dash" by
the customers. But I've never heard of it since - perhaps it was
specific to Joe Lyons.
| Quote: | My earliest memories of British coffee, and this would be in the late
60s, was that it was assumed to be a drink made with hot milk
(and Camp Coffee essence ...). This is what is now known as
"cafe latte" (I mean coffee made with hot milk - not with "coffee
essence") in the coffee bars - it reappeared under this name a few years ago.
|
My ex-parents-in-law were using ground coffee in a percolator then.
But they made it weak and then mixed it with hot milk. I was brought
up on Camp followed by powder followed by granules. I haven't had
instant coffee in years and FAIK it may be much improved now. Or not.
--
Phil C. |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:43 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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On 6 Jul 2005 01:13:48 -0700, "Matthew Huntbach"
<mhuntbach@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk "Matthew Huntbach" wrote:
Coffee used just to be "black" or "white" in Britain. I think it was
in the 1980s that coffee served as "capuccino" became common - though
Nope: "froffy coffee" was common in the 1950s' "milk bars". They even
had Gaggia espresso machines, and the staff used to revel in producing
100dB roars whilst heating and frothing the milk with superheated steam.
Yes, I'm aware of that, though as a folk memory rather than as an
actual recollection, since it's before my time.
But was coffee served in a variety of styles as in current coffee bars,
or was "froffy coffee" what you got when you asked for "coffee"?
I remember the mid-1950s coffee bar craze quite well. The one that I |
used to drop into, opposite the Tech where I was taking A-Levels, was
absolutely jam-packed of an evening, and you really had only two
choices - espresso or espresso with froth. If you just asked for
'coffee' you'd get the latter, and drank the coffee through the froth.
It was not a true cappuccino.
A decade or so earlier, on the very rare occasions that my mother met
her older sister in the city to catch up with family gossip
(naturally, we didn't have a phone in those days), we'd go to a
teashop, which might have been a Lyons or a cafe in Jessops, a
department store. There they served either instant coffee made with
milk, or maybe it was a small amount of extremely strong ground,
filtered coffee diluted with a large amount of milk. But the milk was
simmering, and it immediately formed a skin on the surface of the
coffee which put me off coffee made with milk for life! I don't
remember seeing Gaggia machines until the coffee bar craze.
In those days, coffee was a 'special occasion' drink. My parents had
been given an EPNS percolator for a wedding present, and it just sat
on the sideboard getting polished regularly. I think my mother bought
a bottle of Camp coffee once, my father spat out his first mouthful,
and the bottle was retired to the back of a kitchen shelf. I grew up
associating Camp, as an alternative to Nescafe, with those snack
trailers that sprang up alongside main roads, or transport cafes,
where motor coaches would sometimes stop.
--
Robin |
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:53 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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"Robin Bignall" <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bjsnc1pfvmr4veql2t7i46bmvfd32tmvvu@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
....I grew up
associating Camp, as an alternative to Nescafe, with those snack
trailers that sprang up alongside main roads, or transport cafes,
where motor coaches would sometimes stop.
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Country bus, country bus, rollicking, frolicking, rumbustious... |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:58 pm
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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At 14:19:08 on Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Phil C. <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net>
wrote in <pulnc1pa7bf27pna3nv6l1cplbh5lv57e1@4ax.com>:
| Quote: | My ex-parents-in-law were using ground coffee in a percolator then.
But they made it weak and then mixed it with hot milk. I was brought
up on Camp followed by powder followed by granules. I haven't had
instant coffee in years and FAIK it may be much improved now. Or not.
|
My parents also used a percolator as far back as I can recall (1950s),
and also used hot milk - my mother *liked* the skin that formed. I used
to get sent down to the grocer to ask for "half a pound of 3/3d coffee"
which they would grind there and then - and it smelt totally delicious.
I never got around to drinking the stuff, though, because I don't like
milk - especially hot milk.
I always have a bottle of Camp in the house, though - very good for
flavouring things. It never occurred to me to turn it into a drink for
anyone.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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sum1
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:59 am
Post subject: Re: About coffee |
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mhuntbach@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk "Matthew Huntbach" wrote:
Coffee used just to be "black" or "white" in Britain. I think it was
in the 1980s that coffee served as "capuccino" became common - though
Nope: "froffy coffee" was common in the 1950s' "milk bars". They even
had Gaggia espresso machines, and the staff used to revel in producing
100dB roars whilst heating and frothing the milk with superheated steam.
|
They were called 'coffee bars' in my nostalgia period (1962 - 1969).
The ones we Rockers favored were distinguished by our motorcycles outside and
a jukebox the size of a Mini inside, but there
were others with customers from other social sub-groups like
students, Mods and the like.
| Quote: | Yes, I'm aware of that, though as a folk memory rather than as an
actual recollection, since it's before my time.
But was coffee served in a variety of styles as in current coffee bars,
or was "froffy coffee" what you got when you asked for "coffee"?
|
I don't recall being given any choice! You got a glass cup holding
about two mouthfuls and topped by froth, and brown sugar was
available. Main thing was it was hot which was good, as you get damn cold
travelling through the evening air at 60 -80 mph!
-- Ian |
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