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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:28:04 +0100, Mike Barnes
<june2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote:
But I haven't consciously seen a nun for years - they've gone all
modern now and wear plaid skirts and sensible blouses so as not to
frighten the horses.
I just *love* sensible blouses. But then I'm not a horse.
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True. You are, however, a horse's ass.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:43:49 -0400, Frances Kemmish <fkemmish@optonline.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Steve Hayes wrote:
Yes there is a hierarchy. Above a mere sister is a matron, and below nurse is
nurse-aide or nursing assistant (AmE = candy striper, or at least so the
novels inform me).
But I believe they like to be called "Health Professional Grade X" nowadays.
I think a "candy-striper" is a volunteer.
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The greedy overpriceced blood-sucking capitalist leech American health system
has *volunteers*?
Wow!
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:20:48 +0100, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:28:04 +0100, Mike Barnes
june2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote:
But I haven't consciously seen a nun for years - they've gone all
modern now and wear plaid skirts and sensible blouses so as not to
frighten the horses.
I just *love* sensible blouses. But then I'm not a horse.
True. You are, however, a horse's ass.
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Without which there would be no mules.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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R J Valentine
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 05:20:19 GMT Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
....
} Now, there are dozens of classifications of "nurses".
Uh oh! Now you've gone and wook up Skitt.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@theWorld.com>
whose godmother became an R.N. at St. Joseph's Hospital in Syracuse.
Did I mention how a letter from her caused stress for my basic C.O.? |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 06:23:16 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:43:49 -0400, Frances Kemmish <fkemmish@optonline.net
wrote:
Steve Hayes wrote:
Yes there is a hierarchy. Above a mere sister is a matron, and below nurse is
nurse-aide or nursing assistant (AmE = candy striper, or at least so the
novels inform me).
But I believe they like to be called "Health Professional Grade X" nowadays.
I think a "candy-striper" is a volunteer.
The greedy overpriceced blood-sucking capitalist leech American health system
has *volunteers*?
Wow!
|
Their duties are menial. They push discharged patients out in a wheel
chair, distribute magazines,deliver flowers and mail to the rooms,
and stuff like that there. Most importantly, they are irritatingly
cheery and bubbly.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:42:00 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:42:40 -0400, "Carl Perretta"
cjperretta[at]comcast[dot]net> wrote:
Last night, while watching he film "Vera Drake", it again occurred to me
that nurses in the UK are sometimes referred to as "sister". In the film,
some are referred to as "nurse" also. Is there a religious (like an order
of nuns) or hierarchichal component at work here, or are the terms
interchangeable?
Yes there is a hierarchy. Above a mere sister is a matron, and below nurse is
nurse-aide or nursing assistant (AmE = candy striper, or at least so the
novels inform me).
No. A "Candy Striper" is an unpaid volunteer, usually of high school |
age. An adult unpaid volunteer is usually called a "Pink Lady". Both
terms describe the clothing they wear.
All of the other terms above relate to paid jobs.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:42:21 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
I think it's extremely likely that the "sister" term has descended
from nursing nuns.
obAUE: UK English can use "nursing" without ever thinking about
breast feeding - it occurs to me to mention this because I try to
think in US English as well as UK when writing in AUE. Did the above
sentence give any US readers an uncomfortable image?
Maybe Chuck?
In AmE we do have "nursing schools", "nursing students", people who are
"studying nursing". Ask Coop.
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Student nurses, not nursing students. Unless they are.
When my wife was a student nurse in the late 50s, hospital-trained
nurses became RNs (Registered Nurses) and university hospital trained
nurses became BSNs. The BSN took an extra year of academic studies
not related to nursing. My wife graduated as an RN, but went back to
school after the kids were out of high school and picked up her BSN.
Her degree, though, is in Health Care Management.
Now, there are dozens of classifications of "nurses".
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:03:12 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Is that what they're for? I did wonder. But I haven't consciously
seen a nun for years - they've gone all modern now and wear plaid
skirts and sensible blouses so as not to frighten the horses.
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The high school that my children attended had some nuns as teachers
and administrators. The high school is not affiliated with any order,
so the individual nuns followed different dress conventions. Some
wore almost-ordinary street clothes and some wore a modified habit
that looked more like a well-cut blue suit. Clunky shoes, though.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:47:04 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | I have the impression (I should have waited for Linz to give us the
dinkum drum, but this _is_ AUE) that there really is some kind of
historical or emotional association between nurses and nuns -- nuns
and Knights Hospitaller were the first organised members of the
profession, after all. I don't think it's a coincidence that
British-style hospital nurses used to live under a pretty rigid
discipline, in organised Orders, and wearing a quite unnecessarily
nun-like head-dress. Infirmaries very often had, and have, Saints'
names, too. If that perception is true, then it's not difficult to
see Sisters as full members of the Order, with other colleagues
relegated to a lower rank.
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My wife trained as a nurse at a Catholic hospital in Rockford (IL).
Student nurses were not allowed to be married. Two of her classmates
were (but not to each other), but kept it secret from the nuns.
Teachers in the US, though, were subject to some of the same type of
rules 100 years ago.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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R J Valentine filted:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 05:20:19 GMT Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net
wrote:
...
} Now, there are dozens of classifications of "nurses".
Uh oh! Now you've gone and wook up Skitt.
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And he used the word "classifications", so Areff is probably stirring restlessly
as well....r |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 05:28:57 +0000 (UTC), R J Valentine
<rj@TheWorld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 05:20:19 GMT Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
...
} Now, there are dozens of classifications of "nurses".
Uh oh! Now you've gone and wook up Skitt.
|
I couldn't remember who it was, but when I typed that I considered the
wooking factor. I still think it better reflects the way I would
utter the sentence aloud.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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Tony Cooper spake thusly:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:47:04 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I have the impression (I should have waited for Linz to give us the
dinkum drum, but this _is_ AUE) that there really is some kind of
historical or emotional association between nurses and nuns -- nuns
and Knights Hospitaller were the first organised members of the
profession, after all. I don't think it's a coincidence that
British-style hospital nurses used to live under a pretty rigid
discipline, in organised Orders, and wearing a quite unnecessarily
nun-like head-dress. Infirmaries very often had, and have, Saints'
names, too. If that perception is true, then it's not difficult to
see Sisters as full members of the Order, with other colleagues
relegated to a lower rank.
My wife trained as a nurse at a Catholic hospital in Rockford (IL).
Student nurses were not allowed to be married. Two of her classmates
were (but not to each other), but kept it secret from the nuns.
Teachers in the US, though, were subject to some of the same type of
rules 100 years ago.
|
Until the second world war, it was common for women in public
employment in the UK (teachers, civil servants etc) to have to leave
their jobs when they married.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:42:21 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
In AmE we do have "nursing schools", "nursing students", people who are
"studying nursing". Ask Coop.
Student nurses, not nursing students. Unless they are.
|
I disagree, Coop. "Student nurses" are probably a proper subset of
"nursing students". I don't know how various nursing programs work, but I
understand that many of them are four-year bachelor's degree programs.
Well, suppose the student doesn't get any actual 'in the field'
experience until her (or his) junior year (that's the normative third year
to you non-Americans). So it isn't until then that she (or he) is a
"student nurse".
But don't take my word for it, Coop. Google for "nursing students" and
examine the 653,000 results. I would estimate that 99.9% of them refer to
students enrolled in nursing programs. |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: |
Disagree all you want, but the term "nursing student" just isn't used
by people in the programs or people that have gone through the
programs.
[...]
But don't take my word for it, Coop. Google for "nursing students" and
examine the 653,000 results. I would estimate that 99.9% of them refer to
students enrolled in nursing programs.
You have to deal some with real life, Areff. Walk into your local
hospital and ask some nurse in training if she's a "nursing student".
She'll just nod and say yes. Ask her, though, "What do you do?", and
she'll say "I'm a student nurse."
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Coop, you're basing this on what, your wife's experience of 30-35 years
ago? WADR, I don't think that's dispositive. Nowadays (= TCE "Anymore")
people say "nursing students". |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Guidance on when nurses are referred to as "sister" |
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Areff wrote:
| Quote: | Coop, you're basing this on what, your wife's experience of 30-35 years
ago?
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Sorry, I meant "40-45". |
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