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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Dutch words in English language? |
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HB <hb@fakemail.net> wrote:
| Quote: | axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
The second site makes a serious error. "mannequin" does not come
from Dutch but from Flemish 'manneken' (Flemish diminutive for
'man'). The Dutch don't have diminutives ending on 'ken', while
Flemish has lots of them.
Dutch and Flemish are the same language.
That is not entirely true. The "Nederlandse Taalunie" (Dutch language
union) makes a distinction between written and spoken language. It
states that the written language is more or less the same in the
Netherlands and Flanders (even though there are frequent differences in
vocabulary and syntax).
However, as for spoken language the Taalunie states there is no single
Dutch language. Instead, there are three substandards:
* Dutch: standard spoken in the Netherlands
* Flemish: standard spoken in Flanders
* Surinam Dutch: standard spoken in Suriname
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Accepted. Although one could same the same with regard to Cockney
and Georgie.
Axel |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Dutch words in English language? |
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axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
| Quote: | HB <hb@fakemail.net> wrote:
axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
The second site makes a serious error. "mannequin" does not come
from Dutch but from Flemish 'manneken' (Flemish diminutive for
'man'). The Dutch don't have diminutives ending on 'ken', while
Flemish has lots of them.
Dutch and Flemish are the same language.
That is not entirely true. The "Nederlandse Taalunie" (Dutch language
union) makes a distinction between written and spoken language. It
states that the written language is more or less the same in the
Netherlands and Flanders (even though there are frequent differences
in vocabulary and syntax).
However, as for spoken language the Taalunie states there is no
single Dutch language. Instead, there are three substandards:
* Dutch: standard spoken in the Netherlands
* Flemish: standard spoken in Flanders
* Surinam Dutch: standard spoken in Suriname
Accepted. Although one could same the same with regard to Cockney
and Georgie.
|
It's usually at this point that I remind everyone of the dictum of the
linguist Max Weinreich: "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy."
And wonder why he didn't mention the air force 
--
John Briggs |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Dutch words in English language? |
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John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | However, as for spoken language the Taalunie states there is no
single Dutch language. Instead, there are three substandards:
* Dutch: standard spoken in the Netherlands
* Flemish: standard spoken in Flanders
* Surinam Dutch: standard spoken in Suriname
Accepted. Although one could same the same with regard to Cockney
and Georgie.
It's usually at this point that I remind everyone of the dictum of the
linguist Max Weinreich: "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy."
And wonder why he didn't mention the air force
|
Very true. I did seem to find that my Dutch in Cologne was often
more understood than my poor attempts at German since the latter
has always been a language I read rather than speak.
Axel |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Dutch words in English language? |
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On Wednesday, in article
<55vwe.10582$ZR1.4481@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
| Quote: | It's usually at this point that I remind everyone of the dictum of the
linguist Max Weinreich: "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy."
And wonder why he didn't mention the air force
|
1) When he wrote this, Air Forces were only a couple of decades old
2) Many countries did not have a separate Air Force (cf. Royal Air Force)
but instead had air corps within their pre-existing armies and navies
(eg USAAF).
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:29 am
Post subject: Re: Dutch words in English language? |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
| Quote: | On Wednesday, in article
55vwe.10582$ZR1.4481@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
It's usually at this point that I remind everyone of the dictum of
the linguist Max Weinreich: "A language is a dialect with an army
and a navy." And wonder why he didn't mention the air force :-)
1) When he wrote this, Air Forces were only a couple of decades old
2) Many countries did not have a separate Air Force (cf. Royal Air
Force) but instead had air corps within their pre-existing armies and
navies (eg USAAF).
|
The RAF was 27 years old (although it had its origins in the Royal Flying
Corps of 1912) in 1945, and the USAF was to have a separate existence two
years later. Air Power had been awfully significant during WW2 - you would
have thought that he would have noticed.
--
John Briggs |
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: Dutch words in English language? |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:29:55 GMT, "John Briggs"
<john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
On Wednesday, in article
55vwe.10582$ZR1.4481@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
It's usually at this point that I remind everyone of the dictum of
the linguist Max Weinreich: "A language is a dialect with an army
and a navy." And wonder why he didn't mention the air force :-)
1) When he wrote this, Air Forces were only a couple of decades old
2) Many countries did not have a separate Air Force (cf. Royal Air
Force) but instead had air corps within their pre-existing armies and
navies (eg USAAF).
The RAF was 27 years old (although it had its origins in the Royal Flying
Corps of 1912) in 1945, and the USAF was to have a separate existence two
years later. Air Power had been awfully significant during WW2 - you would
have thought that he would have noticed.
|
Meanwhile, Hubert Lyautey (1854-1934) who declared "Une langue, c'est
un dialecte qui possède une armée, une marine et une aviation."
carries on rolling around in his grave and no-one takes any notice.
Maybe he should have written it in another dialect.
Giles
--
"My dream is that there be a Palestinian state living side by side in
peace with Iraq." George W. Bush, 24 June 2005 |
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