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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:53 am
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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Paul Burke wrote:
| Quote: | And to get back on topic, there are also a few positive connotations
to Dutch, as in "my old dutch".
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That use, surely, has nothing to do with the Netherlands, but is an
abbreviation for "Duchess".
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man.
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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Phil C. wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:43:08 +0100, Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com
wrote:
And to get back on topic, there are also a few positive connotations
to Dutch, as in "my old dutch".
According to Partridge, that was probably coined c1885 by Albert
Chevalier (a Cockney-style music hall entertainer). He explained it by
the resemblance of his wife's face to an old Dutch clock.
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My memory of the history of Music Hall is fading, but I don't believe that
Albert Chevalier wrote the song "My Old Dutch" but took it over from another
performer (I don't remember whether he bought the rights or hi-jacked them).
It was in his performances that the song reached its fame, because he
performed it in the tear-jerking context of an elderly couple being
separated when they are admitted to the workhouse. So his explanation of
the origin of the phrase doesn't carry much weight, IMO.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man. |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:58 am
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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On Saturday, in article
<YV1ve.4518$Ar5.265@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
| Quote: | Giles Todd wrote:
Fine. Now, was Old Frankish a Germanic or a Romance language?
Well, quite - which raises doubts as to how many people actually spoke it in
Vaucluse. Not that I have the foggiest what Burgundians spoke, anyway.
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To quote somebody (Irving Berlin, perchance?) "To hell with Bur-gun-dee!"
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657
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Isabelle Hamey
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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Nick Wagg a écrit :
| Quote: | Anyway, I believe that many of our continental cousins use
similarly slightly derogatory terms based around the English.
After all, we were known as Perfidious Albion at one time.
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You still are. In France, at least. |
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Isabelle Hamey
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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Arthur a écrit :
| Quote: | My next question would have been: are the Dutch singled out? (I only
knew the French kiss - which the French seem to call English kiss -
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Do they? I've never heard it. |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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At 09:55:09 on Sun, 26 Jun 2005, Isabelle Hamey <hamey@alussinan.org>
wrote in <42be5f5d$0$3124$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>:
| Quote: | Arthur a écrit :
My next question would have been: are the Dutch singled out? (I only
knew the French kiss - which the French seem to call English kiss -
Do they? I've never heard it.
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There is, however, the mutual exchange of recrimination involved in The
French Disease / The English Disease.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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On Wednesday, in article
<42b9bdde$0$12605$756600cd@cachenews.cambrium.nl>
Heinrich@Ruhrgas.tk "Heinrich" wrote:
| Quote: | Dutch elm disease
A disease of elms caused by an ascomycetous fungus (Ceratocystis ulmi) and
characterised by yellowing of the foliage, defoliation, and death.
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There's no hint of opprobium attached to that (other than the fact that
the Dutch allowed the virus to multiply in their own trees, before it
managed to export itself elsewhere. However, at that time, no one
realized just how dangerous the fungus/beetle was.
| Quote: | Dutch gleek
Tippling. Gleek is a game and the name implies that the game loved by
Dutchmen is drinking.
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Why make that assumption? Gleek (or, in some dialects, glaik) does
indeed imply the playing of games (IIRC, the word has Viking roots).
What makes you believe that the Dutch drink to play (I always thought it
was exactly the reverse ;-)
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:16 am
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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On Friday, in article
<kdlmb1pcvrv5npg920hb06irom48e3e3ns@4ax.com>
g@prullenbak.todd.nu "Giles Todd" wrote:
| Quote: | Here's an example of OLF from the 11th century:
hebban olla vogala nestas hagunnan hinase hic enda thu wat unbidan we
nu
all the birds have begun nests except for you and me -- what are we
waiting for?
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That's so mellifluous!
I've never really understood the position of the Frankish peoples,
especially when they get "blamed" in various countries for all sorts of
situations.
[By "position", I mean both geographically and historically.]
(I think I've mentioned before that in Italy, the "prickly pear cactus"
[which bears a slightly sweet but almost inaccessible fruit] is known as
"Fiche d'India" [which means "Indian figs"] whereas in Greece and Cyprus
it's called [transliterating to Roman alphabet] "Frangosika" [which means
"Frankish figs". Now then, was "Franconia" east or west of Italy and/or
Greece?)
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:23 am
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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On Sunday, in article <QWm8ZQ3UTmvCFwI3@molly.mockford>
nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk "Molly Mockford" wrote:
| Quote: | There is, however, the mutual exchange of recrimination involved in The
French Disease / The English Disease.
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Which, of course, can be mitigated (respectively) by French Letters /
Capots Anglaises.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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Mike Stevens wrote:
| Quote: | That use, surely, has nothing to do with the Netherlands, but is an
abbreviation for "Duchess".
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Of course, but as others have pointed out, many of the 'dutch' words
have little directly to do with the Netherlands.
I like the old sea shanty (quite conceivably apocryphal):
Mein Fater vass ein Dutchman
Mit mein ya,ya,ya
Mein Father vass ein Dutchman
Mit mein ya,ya,ya
Mein Father vass ein Dutchman
Un mein Mutter vass ein Prooshan
Mit mein ya,ya,ya
Ik sprek in ein funny lingo
Mit mein ya,ya,ya
....
Mit "Mein Golly" un "By Yingo"
Mit mein ya,ya,ya
and so 4th.
Paul Burke |
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Didier Pelleton
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly} écrivit :
| Quote: | "Molly Mockford" wrote:
There is, however, the mutual exchange of recrimination involved in The
French Disease / The English Disease.
Which, of course, can be mitigated (respectively) by French Letters /
Capots Anglaises.
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« capotes anglaises » |
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cachoperro
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Expressions with 'Dutch' in the English language |
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Yes, they were. But, what was the result? We lost.
A spanish man recovering from his injures ;-)
"Dave Fawthrop" <hyphen@hyphenologist.co.uk> escribió en el mensaje
news:6gtib1ti3eg6flnpf7gfi8ij9gnbceerd9@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:00:51 +0200, Arthur <plc@postmark.net> wrote:
| There are a number of expressions in English with the word 'Dutch''.
| Some of them have a neutral meaning (e.g. Dutch doors} whereas other
| expressions heve a negative meaning, e.g.'Dutch courage' / 'to talk like
| a Dutch uncle'.
| I wonder if anyone in the newsgroup could explain why there are quite a
| number of these negative expressions.
| We - the Dutch- are nice people, aren't we.......?
Ah but you were allies of the Spanish at the time of the Armada.
Another 500 years and we may have forgotten that ;-)
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> http://www.webshots.com
Thousands of wonderful professional photos for your Wallpaper and
Screensaver. also 200,000 amateur pics. Four new pics each day. |
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