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danilla
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:26 pm
Post subject: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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Hello.
The Americans have made it simple. They spell all the words in the
subject (and alike) with z. As for the British spelling I seem to have
seen both variants. For example, realize, as I know, is spelled with z.
I don't think I've ever seen another word with z rather than s by
British authors. But who knows...
Can you tell me a simple rule? Is there one, at all?
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Tony Mountifield
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: program/programme |
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In article <1119005378.509244.119840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
danilla <danilla@pisem.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
And how about something like program/programme? Is the latter used
exclusively or not?
|
To me, a computer program is something I run on a computer, and a
computer programme is something I watch on TV about computers.
I remember discussing this very point with a colleague back in 1984,
and he suggested there was actually an "official" distinction along
these lines, but didn't mention a source.
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org |
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Tony Mountifield
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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In article <JGyse.27689$iy2.27223@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Paul Burke wrote:
danilla wrote:
And how about something like program/programme? Is the latter used
exclusively or not?
To me, programming a computer is an international activity, and I use
'program'. I also use 'disk' out of weariness, and 'analog' because I
think the -ue form is silly.
But a CD-ROM (or DVD) is a 'disc' - the Americans having failed to invent
it. And my laser disc player says "LaserDisc" on it 
|
The distinction that was explained to me was "disk" for magnetic media
and "disc" for optical media.
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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danilla wrote:
| Quote: | Hello.
The Americans have made it simple. They spell all the words in the
subject (and alike) with z. As for the British spelling I seem to have
seen both variants. For example, realize, as I know, is spelled with
z. I don't think I've ever seen another word with z rather than s by
British authors. But who knows...
Can you tell me a simple rule? Is there one, at all?
|
There was no simple rule: the z-form was previously used quite extensively.
But now, as America's moral standing in the world continues to plummet, we
increasingly leave the z-form to them and use the s-form only
--
John Briggs |
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:07 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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"danilla" <danilla@pisem.net> wrote in message
news:1119000382.294036.225870@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hello.
The Americans have made it simple. They spell all the words in the
subject (and alike) with z. As for the British spelling I seem to have
seen both variants. For example, realize, as I know, is spelled with z.
I don't think I've ever seen another word with z rather than s by
British authors. But who knows...
Can you tell me a simple rule? Is there one, at all?
|
These days, Brits generally used "s" and Yanks use "z" but,
at one time in Britain "s" was the Cambridge spelling while
"z" was the Oxford spelling, at least for certain words such
as realise.
About 5 years ago when I was working for a different company
(in Cambridge) one of our new recruits (an Oxford graduate, IIRC)
used "realize" on a marketing stand, but he was soon made to see
the error of his ways and the display was changed before the show.
So you see, even the Brits can't decide. I suspect that in these
days of mobile phone text messages, "z" is gaining the upper hand
among teenagers, but I'll stick to "s", being middle-aged. |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:07 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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danilla wrote:
| Quote: |
Can you tell me a simple rule? Is there one, at all?
|
Etymologically, most -ise words derive from Greek -izein, with a zeta.
So the z form would be truer to the origin. But 'z's are considered ugly
in England, so have been quietly ushered out, like an alcoholic uncle at
a wedding.
Paul Burke |
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danilla
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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Paul Burke wrote:
| Quote: | danilla wrote:
Can you tell me a simple rule? Is there one, at all?
Etymologically, most -ise words derive from Greek -izein, with a zeta.
So the z form would be truer to the origin. But 'z's are considered ugly
in England, so have been quietly ushered out, like an alcoholic uncle at
a wedding.
|
A funny enough comparison :)
And how about something like program/programme? Is the latter used
exclusively or not? |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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danilla wrote:
| Quote: | And how about something like program/programme? Is the latter used
exclusively or not?
|
To me, programming a computer is an international activity, and I use
'program'. I also use 'disk' out of weariness, and 'analog' because I
think the -ue form is silly.
For the TV or radio, I seldom write it down, but I think I would use
'programme' normally, in the hope that they would turn out to be British
TV programmes rather than American.
Paul Burke |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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Paul Burke wrote:
| Quote: | danilla wrote:
And how about something like program/programme? Is the latter used
exclusively or not?
To me, programming a computer is an international activity, and I use
'program'. I also use 'disk' out of weariness, and 'analog' because I
think the -ue form is silly.
|
But a CD-ROM (or DVD) is a 'disc' - the Americans having failed to invent
it. And my laser disc player says "LaserDisc" on it
--
John Briggs |
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danilla
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 pm
Post subject: Re: program/programme |
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| It's damn wise. I really think so. Thanks. |
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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danilla wrote:
| Quote: | Hello.
The Americans have made it simple. They spell all the words in the
subject (and alike) with z. As for the British spelling I seem to have
seen both variants. For example, realize, as I know, is spelled with
z. I don't think I've ever seen another word with z rather than s by
British authors. But who knows...
Can you tell me a simple rule? Is there one, at all?
|
No. Chaos prevails in this respect.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man. |
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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danilla wrote:
| Quote: | Paul Burke wrote:
danilla wrote:
Can you tell me a simple rule? Is there one, at all?
Etymologically, most -ise words derive from Greek -izein, with a
zeta. So the z form would be truer to the origin. But 'z's are
considered ugly in England, so have been quietly ushered out, like
an alcoholic uncle at a wedding.
A funny enough comparison :)
And how about something like program/programme? Is the latter used
exclusively or not?
|
Once upon a time the only correct British spelling was "programme". Then
for a time the "program" spelling took over, but at first only in the
context of computer programs, so one could come across things like "a radio
programme about comouter programs". I, personally, seem to have got stuck
at that stage, although I suspect that most of the UK has moved on from
there.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:03 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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Tony Mountifield wrote:
| Quote: | In article <JGyse.27689$iy2.27223@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Paul Burke wrote:
danilla wrote:
And how about something like program/programme? Is the latter used
exclusively or not?
To me, programming a computer is an international activity, and I
use 'program'. I also use 'disk' out of weariness, and 'analog'
because I think the -ue form is silly.
But a CD-ROM (or DVD) is a 'disc' - the Americans having failed to
invent it. And my laser disc player says "LaserDisc" on it :-)
The distinction that was explained to me was "disk" for magnetic media
and "disc" for optical media.
|
Yes, but that's only because the Americans invented the "disk" (and
"diskette"), but failed to do so for the 'compact disc'. (The videodisc -
later laser disc - was an analogue predecessor of the compact disc.)
--
John Briggs |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:47 pm
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:03:53 GMT, "John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article <JGyse.27689$iy2.27223@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Paul Burke wrote:
danilla wrote:
And how about something like program/programme? Is the latter used
exclusively or not?
To me, programming a computer is an international activity, and I
use 'program'. I also use 'disk' out of weariness, and 'analog'
because I think the -ue form is silly.
But a CD-ROM (or DVD) is a 'disc' - the Americans having failed to
invent it. And my laser disc player says "LaserDisc" on it :-)
The distinction that was explained to me was "disk" for magnetic media
and "disc" for optical media.
Yes, but that's only because the Americans invented the "disk" (and
"diskette"), but failed to do so for the 'compact disc'. (The videodisc -
later laser disc - was an analogue predecessor of the compact disc.)
|
Way back in the 1960s, there were two US manufacturers of fixed disc/disk
drives. The disks were 2 to 3 feet in diameter.
The makers were Control Data (Control Data Corporation, CDC), and Data
Products (Data Products Corporation, DPC).
CDC used the spelling Disk; DP used Disc.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:54 am
Post subject: Re: intialise, criticise, realize .... |
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danilla wrote:
| Quote: | Hello.
The Americans have made it simple. They spell all the words in the
subject (and alike) with z. As for the British spelling I seem to have
seen both variants. For example, realize, as I know, is spelled with z.
I don't think I've ever seen another word with z rather than s by
British authors. But who knows...
Can you tell me a simple rule? Is there one, at all?
If a word has one or two syllables it's usually spelled with "s" in both |
British and American English, e.g. "rise", "surprise". However "prise"
and "prize" are two different words.
If it it has three or more syllables it can be spelled with either "ize"
or "ise" in British English and with "ize" only in American English, e.g
"organise/organize". There are, however, a few exceptions which are
always spelled with "ise", e.g. "advertise", "televise".
There are 2 words spelled "yse" in Britain and "yze" in America,
"paralyse/paralyze" and "analyse/analyze". I don't think I've ever seen
them spelled "yze" in a British English text, but I'm open to correction.
This is about the only area where American spelling is more "difficult"
than British spelling, as you can always use "s" in Britain, even if
some publishers frown on it, e.g. Times Newspapers or Oxford University
Press, although the latter isn't consistent.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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