| Author |
Message |
danilla
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:13 pm
Post subject: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
Hello.
I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation:
the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort of American manner, more
like in "but", for example. That was Blur, by the way. The sound was
not even short, it lasted for some time (because it's a song).
It's interesting, how you (the British) feel it. Is it felt to be
something alien or just one of the British accents? Also, I didn't
notice any other occurence of such pronunciation with any other words
where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I
didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing.
Thank you
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Matthew Huntbach
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, danilla wrote:
| Quote: | I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation:
the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort of American manner, more
like in "but", for example. That was Blur, by the way. The sound was
not even short, it lasted for some time (because it's a song).
It's interesting, how you (the British) feel it. Is it felt to be
something alien or just one of the British accents? Also, I didn't
notice any other occurence of such pronunciation with any other words
where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I
didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing.
|
It just seems to be one of those things - pop songs are sung in an
American accent. Perhaps it's because pop music originated from the
USA, or because it's considered to be more glamorous to sing in an
American accent, or because somehow the American accent fits the
sound of pop music better. It's such a convention that people barely
notice it and it seems to be done unconsciously. On the whole the
British people seem to be remarkably tolerant towards the Americanisation
of their society, and don't seem to regard it as something alien.
Matthew Huntbach |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nick Wagg
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:48 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
"danilla" <danilla@pisem.net> wrote in message
news:1118823202.474019.17710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hello.
I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation:
the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort of American manner, more
like in "but", for example. That was Blur, by the way. The sound was
not even short, it lasted for some time (because it's a song).
|
Pronunciation in songs can differ quite a lot from that in ordinary speech,
particularly in vowel sounds. And that's not just with pop songs.
I sing with an orchestra and have been taught that certain vowel sounds
can not be distinguished as the note gets higher, so we may be
instructed to sing "cart" instead of "cut", for instance.
The American influence does mean that since "got" is often
followed by another vowel, particularly "a", the "t" becomes
a "d" so "got a" becomes "godda".
Also, "got" is one of those words which is likely to be used in
a slang way, whether it means "have", "had", "obtain(ed)",
"become" or "became", so it's pronunciation is more prone to
vary than less slang terms.
| Quote: | It's interesting, how you (the British) feel it. Is it felt to be
something alien or just one of the British accents? Also, I didn't
notice any other occurence of such pronunciation with any other words
where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I
didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing.
|
"Got", being a (mainly transitive) verb, often occurs in the middle
of a phrase or sentence, or joining two phrases together, so it
occurs in the sort of place where the word may get stretched.
"Pot" and "stop" could be verbs but are more likely to be nouns.
They are less likely to be followed by a vowel, so the "t" and "p"
are less likely to become "d" and "b". Also they are more likely
to occur in a place in a phrase where they are not stretched out
so the vowel sound is less likely to have to change.
Damon Albarn (lead singer of Blur and also of Gorillaz) is a
Southerner, so his vowels are likely to be longer (in general)
than those of a Northerner like me. Also, where he shortens
his vowels he is more likely to drop the final "t" in both "got"
and "pot" than I am.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:48 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
danilla wrote:
| Quote: | Hello.
I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation:
the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort of American manner, more
like in "but", for example. That was Blur, by the way. The sound was
not even short, it lasted for some time (because it's a song).
It's interesting, how you (the British) feel it. Is it felt to be
something alien or just one of the British accents? Also, I didn't
notice any other occurence of such pronunciation with any other words
where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I
didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing.
I'm not British but I lived in london for a long time. I'm unfamiliar |
with the song you#re referring to but it's not unusual for British
singers to adopt a pseudo-American pronunciation when singing, e.g. a
lot of songs by Mick Jagger. Sometimes this can be quite funny when this
accent is mixed with a strong regional accent.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danilla
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
Thanks a lot, everybody.
As for me, I can't say, of course, how funny it is, because I don't
feel the English language in this way  .
But what I'm sure about is that when Damon Albarn sings, I have no
doubt that it is British speech in every single word. And to hear words
like got (gut), everbody(everybuddy) I have to analyze what I hear.
This is because what distinguishes, say, British speech from American
is, I think, a great deal more than just a couple of differences like
in 'fast' or 'got'. I mean, the whole difference is in million little
differences.
So he alters his speech only in a few aspects. But the overall
impression remains the same, as if he were talking his everyday
language.
The singer from Placebo seems to have gone further in this direction :)
By the way, does something similar take place in ordinary speech as
well? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John of Aix
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:20 am
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
danilla wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks a lot, everybody.
As for me, I can't say, of course, how funny it is, because I don't
feel the English language in this way .
But what I'm sure about is that when Damon Albarn sings, I have no
doubt that it is British speech in every single word. And to hear
words like got (gut), everbody(everybuddy) I have to analyze what I
hear.
This is because what distinguishes, say, British speech from American
is, I think, a great deal more than just a couple of differences like
in 'fast' or 'got'. I mean, the whole difference is in million little
differences.
So he alters his speech only in a few aspects. But the overall
impression remains the same, as if he were talking his everyday
language.
|
Yes but you also have to take into account that it is a song, has
rhythm, a tempo, bars and stuff. For instance the word(s) "can't" can be
as long as you like in a song because of the long 'a' which you can
extend as you wish. but the word 'dog' can't do anything other than be a
short syllable. So in the choice of lyrics and in their singing the
final English result isn't really very English at all, so I'd be careful
of trying to improve your language skills this way
| Quote: | By the way, does something similar take place in ordinary speech as
well?
|
To a certain extent. 'Gonna' is very comon indeed for 'going to' for
instance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:49 am
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
John of Aix wrote:
| Quote: | danilla wrote:
Thanks a lot, everybody.
As for me, I can't say, of course, how funny it is, because I don't
feel the English language in this way .
But what I'm sure about is that when Damon Albarn sings, I have no
doubt that it is British speech in every single word. And to hear
words like got (gut), everbody(everybuddy) I have to analyze what I
hear.
This is because what distinguishes, say, British speech from American
is, I think, a great deal more than just a couple of differences like
in 'fast' or 'got'. I mean, the whole difference is in million little
differences.
So he alters his speech only in a few aspects. But the overall
impression remains the same, as if he were talking his everyday
language.
Yes but you also have to take into account that it is a song, has
rhythm, a tempo, bars and stuff. For instance the word(s) "can't" can be
as long as you like in a song because of the long 'a' which you can
extend as you wish. but the word 'dog' can't do anything other than be a
short syllable.
|
I don't know about this. there is also the American pronunciation
sometimes represented phonetically as "dawg". There was a cartoon
program called "Deputy Dawg" when I was a kid. IIRC the chief character
had a very slow drawl that elongated just about every stressed syllable
(and some unstressed ones).
| Quote: | So in the choice of lyrics and in their singing the
final English result isn't really very English at all, so I'd be careful
of trying to improve your language skills this way
I would agree with this, although it's often good for listening |
comprehension - but people should beware - the lyrics available on the
Internet often deviate quite radically from the text actually sung on
the record, CD or cassette. This is also true of lyrics provided with
the CD, cassette or record.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
| Quote: |
By the way, does something similar take place in ordinary speech as
well?
To a certain extent. 'Gonna' is very comon indeed for 'going to' for
instance.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danilla
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:42 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
Oh, thank you, but songs are certainly not the primary means of
teaching language for me. There is such a beatiful thing as internet
radio. BBC provides lots of recorded material as well as live programs,
of course. I won't be able to listen to a tenth part of that.
As for lyrics, yes, it's true, indeed. Sometimes one may get quite
surprised. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nick Wagg
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
"Einde O'Callaghan" <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote in message
news:3heh9cFgo28aU1@individual.net...
| Quote: |
I don't know about this. there is also the American pronunciation
sometimes represented phonetically as "dawg". There was a cartoon
program called "Deputy Dawg" when I was a kid. IIRC the chief character
had a very slow drawl that elongated just about every stressed syllable
(and some unstressed ones).
|
Shooee, Musky.
There's also the musician Dave "Dawg" Grisman, who used to
play with the late Gerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead.
| Quote: |
By the way, does something similar take place in ordinary speech as
well?
To a certain extent. 'Gonna' is very comon indeed for 'going to' for
instance.
|
Especially if you're a valley girl - How's that for thread convergence? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nick Wagg
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:36 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
"danilla" <danilla@pisem.net> wrote in message
news:1118994178.753574.298770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Oh, thank you, but songs are certainly not the primary means of
teaching language for me. There is such a beatiful thing as internet
radio. BBC provides lots of recorded material as well as live programs,
of course. I won't be able to listen to a tenth part of that.
|
Don't miss "Just A Minute" and "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" on Radio 4.
| Quote: | As for lyrics, yes, it's true, indeed. Sometimes one may get quite
surprised.
|
Try the Cocteau Twins. They'll surprise you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danilla
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
Nick Wagg wrote:
| Quote: | "danilla" <danilla@pisem.net> wrote in message
news:1118994178.753574.298770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Oh, thank you, but songs are certainly not the primary means of
teaching language for me. There is such a beatiful thing as internet
radio. BBC provides lots of recorded material as well as live programs,
of course. I won't be able to listen to a tenth part of that.
Don't miss "Just A Minute" and "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" on Radio 4.
|
Ok. Radio 4 have been my favorite one. The most talking radio. Even
more, "intelligent speech" if I remember the wording right. Sounds
attractive. And there really are very interesting programs, not only
from the language point of view.
| Quote: | As for lyrics, yes, it's true, indeed. Sometimes one may get quite
surprised.
Try the Cocteau Twins. They'll surprise you.
|
I've heard a couple of their albums. But never read their lyrics on the
internet. Well, I believe you there's something wrong with them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danilla
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
Nick Wagg wrote:
| Quote: | "danilla" <danilla@pisem.net> wrote in message
news:1118994178.753574.298770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Oh, thank you, but songs are certainly not the primary means of
teaching language for me. There is such a beatiful thing as internet
radio. BBC provides lots of recorded material as well as live programs,
of course. I won't be able to listen to a tenth part of that.
Don't miss "Just A Minute" and "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" on Radio 4.
|
Ok. Radio 4 have been my favorite one. The most talking radio. Even
more, "intelligent speech" if I remember the wording right. Sounds
attractive. And there really are very interesting programs, not only
from the language point of view.
| Quote: | As for lyrics, yes, it's true, indeed. Sometimes one may get quite
surprised.
Try the Cocteau Twins. They'll surprise you.
|
I've heard a couple of their albums. But never read their lyrics on the
internet. Well, I believe you there's something wrong with them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Molly Mockford
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:38 pm
Post subject: Re: a foreigner's question on British pronunciation |
|
|
At 09:36:22 on Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Nick Wagg <naw@transcendata.com> wrote
in <d8u229$4tt$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>:
| Quote: |
"danilla" <danilla@pisem.net> wrote in message
news:1118994178.753574.298770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Oh, thank you, but songs are certainly not the primary means of
teaching language for me. There is such a beatiful thing as internet
radio. BBC provides lots of recorded material as well as live programs,
of course. I won't be able to listen to a tenth part of that.
Don't miss "Just A Minute" and "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" on Radio 4.
|
And "The News Quiz" as well.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in