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Richard Rongstad
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:17 am
Post subject: Best UK English dictionaries |
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Using various standards including:
+ most popular
+ most widely used
+ most respected
+ most relied upon
+ most cited
+ most authoratative...
Which UK dictionaries should I consult, and/or buy?
Throw in some thesauri and jargon collections if you wish, anything online
would also be appreciated.
------------------
Richard Rongstad
VikingPhoenix.com - Definitions and Glossary The Lexicon at
Vikingphoenix.com
http://vikingphoenix.com/Internet/reference/defglos.htm
Archive of Military Definitions of the Day
http://vikingphoenix.com/military/mildefday.htm
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Nick Wagg
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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"Richard Rongstad" <scs5gomrb5le3is@jetable.org> wrote in message
news:ovure.476$Tf5.11@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
| Quote: | Using various standards including:
+ most popular
+ most widely used
+ most respected
+ most relied upon
+ most cited
+ most authoratative...
Which UK dictionaries should I consult, and/or buy?
|
My favourite is the Collins English Dictionary, not because it is the
most authoritative but because I find it the most readable. It is also
just about small enough to be comfortable to handle, although the
one I had in 1981 was easier to manage with one hand. Another
thing I like is that it contains lots of references to famous people
and places, as well as quite a lot of scientific and technical terms.
The Oxford English Dictionary is usually considered to be the
most authoritative, although crossword compilers often cite
Chambers, or has it been ousted by the Collins these days? |
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John Hall
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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In article <ovure.476$Tf5.11@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net>,
Richard Rongstad <scs5gomrb5le3is@jetable.org> writes:
| Quote: | Using various standards including:
+ most popular
+ most widely used
+ most respected
+ most relied upon
+ most cited
+ most authoratative...
Which UK dictionaries should I consult, and/or buy?
|
Are size and cost an issue? The full OED comes in at twenty (?) volumes,
and would be correspondingly expensive, but is likely to be the most
respected and most authoritative. I believe that there's also a CDROM
version.
--
John Hall
"Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes."
Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:52:58 +0100, "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | The Oxford English Dictionary is usually considered to be the
most authoritative, although crossword compilers often cite
Chambers, or has it been ousted by the Collins these days?
|
Chambers and Collins are both useful for crosswords because of their
frequent revisions. If you want etymology then OED is the best, but
it is infrequently republished (next edition is currently scheduled
for some time around 2020). The supplements help, but are annoying in
the paper edition. You have to check two books for one lookup. The
CD-ROM edition amalgamates the main dictionary and the supplements,
and is probably the better buy if you have a computer.
SOED is published more frequently than OED and is more up to date with
current usage. On the other hand, it lacks a lot of what is offered
by the full edition. You really have to decide what you want a
dictionary for before you deciding which one is the best for you.
Giles |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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John Hall <nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Are size and cost an issue? The full OED comes in at twenty (?) volumes,
and would be correspondingly expensive, but is likely to be the most
respected and most authoritative. I believe that there's also a CDROM
version.
|
There is also a Compact OED which is basically all the volumes of the
OED reproduced in one large volume. It comes supplied with a magnifying
glass which most people will probably find necessary.
Axel |
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Erick Andrews
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:14 am
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:30:47 UTC, axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
| Quote: | John Hall <nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
Are size and cost an issue? The full OED comes in at twenty (?) volumes,
and would be correspondingly expensive, but is likely to be the most
respected and most authoritative. I believe that there's also a CDROM
version.
There is also a Compact OED which is basically all the volumes of the
OED reproduced in one large volume. It comes supplied with a magnifying
glass which most people will probably find necessary.
Axel
|
I've had the "Compact" version of the OED for years -- with its magnifying glass --
and its last Supplement. Quite scholarly with all the "Books Quoted", etc., just
like its multi-volume parent.
However, I recently acquired the Concise OED (Amazon, I think) for about
US$20. It's a 2004 edition and is superb for not just a quick lookup, but
it is very, very up-to-date. I highly recommend it. Sheesh, it even had the
definition for "TCP/IP" in it. And you shouldn't need a magnifying glass.
--
Best,
Erick Andrews
delete bogus to reply |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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On Saturday, in article
<sGi8lzkop2Rq-pn2-UcFVjr4buh29@HAL9000>
eandrews@bogusstar.net "Erick Andrews" wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:30:47 UTC, axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
John Hall <nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
Are size and cost an issue? The full OED comes in at twenty (?) volumes,
and would be correspondingly expensive, but is likely to be the most
respected and most authoritative. I believe that there's also a CDROM
version.
There is also a Compact OED which is basically all the volumes of the
OED reproduced in one large volume. It comes supplied with a magnifying
glass which most people will probably find necessary.
|
When I first read Axel's posting, I thought to myself "someone ought to
make sure that people don't get confused between the 'compact' and the
'concise' OED, since the latter is crap".
However, before I've had the chance, I find your post:
| Quote: | I've had the "Compact" version of the OED for years -- with its magnifying
glass --
and its last Supplement. Quite scholarly with all the "Books Quoted", etc.,
just
like its multi-volume parent.
However, I recently acquired the Concise OED (Amazon, I think) for about
US$20. It's a 2004 edition and is superb for not just a quick lookup, but
it is very, very up-to-date. I highly recommend it. Sheesh, it even had the
definition for "TCP/IP" in it. And you shouldn't need a magnifying glass.
|
Aaaarrgh! Whilst I've not seen the 2004 edition, every previous version
I've ever seen of the "Concise Oxford Dictionary" has led me to think "Do
OUP *really* intend to besmirch their reputation by publishing this
useless book?" I doubt very much that the leopard has changed his spots.
For example, on the rare occasion when I've been doing a cross-word and
wanted to look up a word (which was obviously the correct answer) which
was unbeknownst to me, if I've been [say] in a pub and asked to borrow a
dictionary, and found that the only such publication to hand was the COD,
then the word has *never* been in it. The COD includes all the words of
"Basic English", but very little of any unusual words.
So I would advise other readers to shun the Concise Oxford entirely; buy
the SOED, or the Compact OED, or the full OED (perhaps on CD-ROM), if you
can afford these publications. Otherwise, Chambers is probably the best
single-volume dictionary of the English language (although I was quite
impressed by a Collins when they first ventured into this field about
10--15 years ago).
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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Erick Andrews <eandrews@bogusstar.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Are size and cost an issue? The full OED comes in at twenty (?) volumes,
and would be correspondingly expensive, but is likely to be the most
respected and most authoritative. I believe that there's also a CDROM
version.
There is also a Compact OED which is basically all the volumes of the
OED reproduced in one large volume. It comes supplied with a magnifying
glass which most people will probably find necessary.
I've had the "Compact" version of the OED for years -- with its magnifying glass --
and its last Supplement. Quite scholarly with all the "Books Quoted", etc., just
like its multi-volume parent.
However, I recently acquired the Concise OED (Amazon, I think) for about
US$20. It's a 2004 edition and is superb for not just a quick lookup, but
it is very, very up-to-date. I highly recommend it. Sheesh, it even had the
definition for "TCP/IP" in it. And you shouldn't need a magnifying glass.
|
The Concise OED is good for everyday use. I must admit I don't the policy
of the new editions in omitting the pronunciation of common English words.
So I stick to my 5th edition.
Axel |
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Erick Andrews
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:11:04 UTC, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote:
| Quote: | On Saturday, in article
sGi8lzkop2Rq-pn2-UcFVjr4buh29@HAL9000
eandrews@bogusstar.net "Erick Andrews" wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:30:47 UTC, axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
John Hall <nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
Are size and cost an issue? The full OED comes in at twenty (?) volumes,
and would be correspondingly expensive, but is likely to be the most
respected and most authoritative. I believe that there's also a CDROM
version.
There is also a Compact OED which is basically all the volumes of the
OED reproduced in one large volume. It comes supplied with a magnifying
glass which most people will probably find necessary.
When I first read Axel's posting, I thought to myself "someone ought to
make sure that people don't get confused between the 'compact' and the
'concise' OED, since the latter is crap".
However, before I've had the chance, I find your post:
I've had the "Compact" version of the OED for years -- with its magnifying
glass --
and its last Supplement. Quite scholarly with all the "Books Quoted", etc.,
just
like its multi-volume parent.
However, I recently acquired the Concise OED (Amazon, I think) for about
US$20. It's a 2004 edition and is superb for not just a quick lookup, but
it is very, very up-to-date. I highly recommend it. Sheesh, it even had the
definition for "TCP/IP" in it. And you shouldn't need a magnifying glass.
Aaaarrgh! Whilst I've not seen the 2004 edition, every previous version
I've ever seen of the "Concise Oxford Dictionary" has led me to think "Do
OUP *really* intend to besmirch their reputation by publishing this
useless book?" I doubt very much that the leopard has changed his spots.
|
I, for one, would not denigrate any of the OED flavours. I still use my "Pocket
OED" I bought in England in 1982.
| Quote: | For example, on the rare occasion when I've been doing a cross-word and
wanted to look up a word (which was obviously the correct answer) which
was unbeknownst to me, if I've been [say] in a pub and asked to borrow a
dictionary, and found that the only such publication to hand was the COD,
then the word has *never* been in it. The COD includes all the words of
"Basic English", but very little of any unusual words.
So I would advise other readers to shun the Concise Oxford entirely; buy
the SOED, or the Compact OED, or the full OED (perhaps on CD-ROM), if you
can afford these publications. Otherwise, Chambers is probably the best
single-volume dictionary of the English language (although I was quite
impressed by a Collins when they first ventured into this field about
10--15 years ago).
|
Well, I can understand your passion of one versus another.
I don't give a fig about that; if I had deep pockets, I'd own and use them
all, but I hope, like you seem to have, that I think I have, some wisdom to
understand their differences and limitations.
They're all useful. And if you REALLY want to get into etymology, philology,
and word history, you might start with Eric Partridge's many tomes.
The 2004 "Concise" OED is comparatively useful. And it's probably better
than "cheating" with the fine crossword puzzle dictionaries out there.
However, you can always go to a decent public library and use the full
OED. I have done that on occasion.
My only beef with the Oxford Press's CD version of the OED is that they only
do a 'Windoze" version, US$600+ aside. Ugh!
Best,
Erick Andrews
delete bogus to reply
[who also has a Collins, Heritage, Random House, Webster's and more;
plus some from the ancient sacred crypts of Egypt <g>] |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:04 am
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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On Sunday, in article
<sGi8lzkop2Rq-pn2-JlFv2JZSKndj@HAL9000>
eandrews@bogusstar.net "Erick Andrews" wrote:
| Quote: | My only beef with the Oxford Press's CD version of the OED is that they only
do a 'Windoze" version, US$600+ aside. Ugh!
|
It's come down considerable in price in the past decade then (although
one might explain this as being because it is less versatile). A friend
of mine bought the full CD-ROM of the OED in 1995, at which time it was
usable under Windows (v3.1 and '95), OS/2 (v2.1 & Warp V3), and Macintosh
(don't know which version(s)).
The price of this versatility was that it cost GBP999, which in those
days would have been about USD1450.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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Erick Andrews
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:50 am
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 23:04:22 UTC, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote:
| Quote: | On Sunday, in article
sGi8lzkop2Rq-pn2-JlFv2JZSKndj@HAL9000
eandrews@bogusstar.net "Erick Andrews" wrote:
My only beef with the Oxford Press's CD version of the OED is that they only
do a 'Windoze" version, US$600+ aside. Ugh!
It's come down considerable in price in the past decade then (although
one might explain this as being because it is less versatile). A friend
of mine bought the full CD-ROM of the OED in 1995, at which time it was
usable under Windows (v3.1 and '95), OS/2 (v2.1 & Warp V3), and Macintosh
(don't know which version(s)).
The price of this versatility was that it cost GBP999, which in those
days would have been about USD1450.
|
That's interesting because I haven't kept up to date, although once or
twice a year I get an e-mail from the OED people. I've been tempted
to reply to them about making the CD available on other platforms, but I
contain my frustrations/anger not to reply. Maybe I shouldn't be that way.
I figure it would only fall on deaf ears.
Do you know anyone who has made it work, straightforwardly, on
something other than MS (and not just Mac)? If so, I could probably
justify USD 150 - 200, but not more. Yeah, but it's gotta be more than
"8.3" filenames. An EMX solution might be OK.
Thanks for your reply.
--
Best,
Erick Andrews
delete bogus to reply |
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David Picton
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Best UK English dictionaries |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
| Quote: | On Saturday, in article
sGi8lzkop2Rq-pn2-UcFVjr4buh29@HAL9000
eandrews@bogusstar.net "Erick Andrews" wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:30:47 UTC, axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
John Hall <nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
Are size and cost an issue? The full OED comes in at twenty (?) volumes,
and would be correspondingly expensive, but is likely to be the most
respected and most authoritative. I believe that there's also a CDROM
version.
There is also a Compact OED which is basically all the volumes of the
OED reproduced in one large volume. It comes supplied with a magnifying
glass which most people will probably find necessary.
When I first read Axel's posting, I thought to myself "someone ought to
make sure that people don't get confused between the 'compact' and the
'concise' OED, since the latter is crap".
|
I think there's a potential for confusion here. The Compact edition of
the OED is the full OED squeezed into one volume, complete with a
magnifying lens. I really don't think it's appropriate to compare it
with a normal one-volume dictionary!
However, there is also a Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current
Usage, containing about 145,000 definitions. The Concise Oxford
English Dictionary contains 240,000 definitions - nearly twice as many.
If you're dissatisfied with the Concise, you won't want to use the
Compact. There's also a large single volume edition now called the
Oxford Dictionary of English (originally the New Oxford Dictionary of
English, with 355,000 definitions - again not to be confused with the
full OED. |
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