| Author |
Message |
Sally
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:13 am
Post subject: Choosing a theme dorm |
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If you happened to look at that website about substance free dorms,
you might have noticed that most kids pick them to avoid roommate
problems. A minority choose them because their parents force them into
it. Lucky for us, I am not one of those controlling parents.
So given that the student in question is looking for a quiet
atmosphere free of vomit, what theme would you recommend? Sub-free?
Quiet? Academic? Wellness? Community service? What if sub-free is not
a choice? Seems to me that any theme has got to be better than none.
I will feel especially grateful to read personal experiences of people
who have experience with themed dorms.
Thanks
Sal |
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Abe Kohen
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:10 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
"Sally" <sunsol@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:2398fe97.0402271913.3233e49f@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | If you happened to look at that website about substance free dorms,
you might have noticed that most kids pick them to avoid roommate
problems. A minority choose them because their parents force them into
it. Lucky for us, I am not one of those controlling parents.
So given that the student in question is looking for a quiet
atmosphere free of vomit, what theme would you recommend? Sub-free?
Quiet? Academic? Wellness? Community service? What if sub-free is not
a choice? Seems to me that any theme has got to be better than none.
I will feel especially grateful to read personal experiences of people
who have experience with themed dorms.
|
Since you are not controlling, why not let your student choose on their own?
To help them in making the decision perhaps a visit to various dorms while
in their senior year at high school might help them.
Personally I am against such themes as "substance-free." First, because they
equate between drugs and alcohol. I don't do drugs but I believe in
responsible drinking. Second, because extreme positions usually result in
180 degree turns by some. I prefer moderation over extremes.
My offspring chose themes which fit them. They made their own decisions, and
I respect their decisions.
Best,
Abe |
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Sally
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:57 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
"Abe Kohen" <akohen@xenon.stanford.edu> wrote in message news:<c1rl71$1g48sa$1@ID-102750.news.uni-berlin.de>...
| Quote: | "Sally" <sunsol@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:2398fe97.0402271913.3233e49f@posting.google.com...
If you happened to look at that website about substance free dorms,
you might have noticed that most kids pick them to avoid roommate
problems. A minority choose them because their parents force them into
it. Lucky for us, I am not one of those controlling parents.
So given that the student in question is looking for a quiet
atmosphere free of vomit, what theme would you recommend? Sub-free?
Quiet? Academic? Wellness? Community service? What if sub-free is not
a choice? Seems to me that any theme has got to be better than none.
I will feel especially grateful to read personal experiences of people
who have experience with themed dorms.
Since you are not controlling, why not let your student choose on their own?
|
I am doing the research. Student chooses.
| Quote: |
To help them in making the decision perhaps a visit to various dorms while
in their senior year at high school might help them.
|
Good idea.
| Quote: |
Personally I am against such themes as "substance-free." First, because they
equate between drugs and alcohol. I don't do drugs but I believe in
responsible drinking.
|
College students often get into binge drinking.
| Quote: | Second, because extreme positions usually result in
180 degree turns by some.
|
Got some stats on that? Personal experience?
| Quote: | I prefer moderation over extremes.
|
I agree, but college students are into extremes.
| Quote: |
My offspring chose themes which fit them. They made their own decisions, and
I respect their decisions.
|
Sounds much like what I plan. So what did they pick, and how did they like it?
Thanks,
Sal
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Robert J. O'Hara
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:02 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
sunsol@prodigy.net (Sally) wrote...
| Quote: | So given that the student in question is looking for a quiet
atmosphere free of vomit, what theme would you recommend? Sub-free?
Quiet? Academic? Wellness? Community service? What if sub-free is not
a choice? Seems to me that any theme has got to be better than none.
I will feel especially grateful to read personal experiences of people
who have experience with themed dorms.
|
To directly answer the question: I'd recommend a substance-free or
honors theme if that was the only choice I had, and it would probably
be better than nothing at all. But, as a faculty member I'm strongly
opposed to the idea of "theme halls" in the first place. They do the
opposite of what we should be doing: they *segregate* rather than
integrate, and they bring students together who are just like one
another, instead of bringing together students with different
interests and backgrounds so everyone can learn from everyone else.
(And the existence of a "substance-free hall" is a tacit
acknowledgement that the other halls are out of control and the
university doesn't know how, or is unwilling, to bring them under
control.)
So what's the best arrangement? A small, cross-sectional, faculty-led
*residential college* within a larger institution. Residential
colleges, modeled ultimately on the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge
universities in England, offer students the best of both worlds: a
small, family-like atmosphere within the context of a large
university.
Many universities in the United States and elsewhere are beginning to
establish residential colleges of this kind, and they can now be found
at public and private institutions of all sizes and kinds, from
Harvard, Yale, and Princeton to Murray State, Truman State, and the
University of Central Arkansas.
I maintain a large website devoted to this residential college
movement, and interested readers are cordially invited to pay it a
visit. It is called "The Collegiate Way: Residential Colleges and
Higher Education Reform" and some starting points are:
Main page:
http://www.collegiateway.org/
Directory of residential colleges:
http://www.collegiateway.org/colleges/
Advice for parents and students:
http://www.collegiateway.org/parents-students/
News about the residential college movement:
http://www.collegiateway.org/news/
Bob O'Hara
Dr. Robert J. O'Hara (rjohara@post.harvard.edu - http://rjohara.net)
Biology Department, Middlebury College, Middlebury, Vermont 05753 USA
Residential Colleges and University Reform (http://collegiateway.org) |
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Sally
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
rjohara@post.harvard.edu (Robert J. O'Hara) wrote in message news:<bd882d31.0402291702.6ed23970@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | sunsol@prodigy.net (Sally) wrote...
So given that the student in question is looking for a quiet
atmosphere free of vomit, what theme would you recommend? Sub-free?
Quiet? Academic? Wellness? Community service? What if sub-free is not
a choice? Seems to me that any theme has got to be better than none.
I will feel especially grateful to read personal experiences of people
who have experience with themed dorms.
To directly answer the question: I'd recommend a substance-free or
honors theme if that was the only choice I had, and it would probably
be better than nothing at all. But, as a faculty member I'm strongly
opposed to the idea of "theme halls" in the first place. They do the
opposite of what we should be doing: they *segregate* rather than
integrate, and they bring students together who are just like one
another, instead of bringing together students with different
interests and backgrounds so everyone can learn from everyone else.
|
I don't see why integration is intrinsically better than segregation.
I think there are pros and cons to each. In addition, the student in
question has experienced integation of many sorts (racial,
socioeconomic, academic) over many years. Time for a change.
| Quote: | (And the existence of a "substance-free hall" is a tacit
acknowledgement that the other halls are out of control and the
university doesn't know how, or is unwilling, to bring them under
control.)
|
College students can't be controlled. High school students can't be
controlled. Adults can't be controlled. There will always be people
who drink too much.
| Quote: |
So what's the best arrangement? A small, cross-sectional, faculty-led
*residential college* within a larger institution. Residential
colleges, modeled ultimately on the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge
universities in England, offer students the best of both worlds: a
small, family-like atmosphere within the context of a large
university.
|
Sounds nice. But I feel sorry for the faculty that is obligated to
live with college students. Must make family life difficult. And if
they don't enjoy it, how can it be good for the students? But I will
see if that option is available at the colleges the student is
question is considering.
Sal
| Quote: | Bob O'Hara
Dr. Robert J. O'Hara (rjohara@post.harvard.edu - http://rjohara.net)
Biology Department, Middlebury College, Middlebury, Vermont 05753 USA
Residential Colleges and University Reform (http://collegiateway.org) |
|
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|
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Laura AZ
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:11 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
Hi Sally:
I agree that this decision does need to be your offspring's. And, it
would be best if your child were doing the research, too. However, I
do think my son and I ended up reading through the various choices at
his selected college last spring, and discussed some pros and cons of
each dorm. I left the final decision (including the stamped
paperwork) in his hands.
I was pleased that he selected a residential college. His freshmen
class of 2800 is a little bigger than his high school senior class of
24, so my maternal anxiety level was certainly up on this one! And, a
long family history of alcohol abuse gave us all reason for some
honest discussion about the kinds of choices he'd have to make over
the next years.
The residential college option seems to have given our son some easy
ties to the campus, but not demand the same kind of all-or-nothing
social environment that a fraternity might. His dorm has six
residential floors, each with about 30 kids. They share a special
weekly dinner, field inter-dorm athletic teams, and have the
opportunity to participate in lots of special events -- Dodgers games
last fall, museum visits, theatre tickets, etc. Our son has grown
especially close to everyone on his floor, and much of his social life
is centered around his dorm friends. The faculty master has lived in
an apartment in one end of the ground floor of the dorm for a number
of years, and has a child who lives with him. Our son seems to be
glad that the faculty master is there, and admire him (tried to
register for his class this spring, but couldn't work it into his
schedule), but doesn't seem dependent upon him. Sophomores at his
school typcially moved to apartments (university subsidized, if
they're lucky), and he's already a part of four guys from his dorm
floor hoping to share an apartment next year.
I don't know how you navigate the drug/alcohol question any better in
collge than you would if your child stayed at home and attended
college, or went to work and lived in his or her own apartment. I
think you provide your kids with good role models, talk to them about
their family histories and what may be in their genes, acknowledge
that a lot of successful people drink/whatever with few consequences
and other successful people choose not to, and you let your kids know
what kind of help is out there if they do end up with the difficult
end of the gene pool on this one.
Laura in AZ (and sometimes anxious, too!)
sunsol@prodigy.net (Sally) wrote in message news:<2398fe97.0403011019.6ec5eb9f@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | rjohara@post.harvard.edu (Robert J. O'Hara) wrote in message news:<bd882d31.0402291702.6ed23970@posting.google.com>...
sunsol@prodigy.net (Sally) wrote...
So given that the student in question is looking for a quiet
atmosphere free of vomit, what theme would you recommend? Sub-free?
Quiet? Academic? Wellness? Community service? What if sub-free is not
a choice? Seems to me that any theme has got to be better than none.
I will feel especially grateful to read personal experiences of people
who have experience with themed dorms.
To directly answer the question: I'd recommend a substance-free or
honors theme if that was the only choice I had, and it would probably
be better than nothing at all. But, as a faculty member I'm strongly
opposed to the idea of "theme halls" in the first place. They do the
opposite of what we should be doing: they *segregate* rather than
integrate, and they bring students together who are just like one
another, instead of bringing together students with different
interests and backgrounds so everyone can learn from everyone else.
I don't see why integration is intrinsically better than segregation.
I think there are pros and cons to each. In addition, the student in
question has experienced integation of many sorts (racial,
socioeconomic, academic) over many years. Time for a change.
(And the existence of a "substance-free hall" is a tacit
acknowledgement that the other halls are out of control and the
university doesn't know how, or is unwilling, to bring them under
control.)
College students can't be controlled. High school students can't be
controlled. Adults can't be controlled. There will always be people
who drink too much.
So what's the best arrangement? A small, cross-sectional, faculty-led
*residential college* within a larger institution. Residential
colleges, modeled ultimately on the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge
universities in England, offer students the best of both worlds: a
small, family-like atmosphere within the context of a large
university.
Sounds nice. But I feel sorry for the faculty that is obligated to
live with college students. Must make family life difficult. And if
they don't enjoy it, how can it be good for the students? But I will
see if that option is available at the colleges the student is
question is considering.
Sal
Bob O'Hara
Dr. Robert J. O'Hara (rjohara@post.harvard.edu - http://rjohara.net)
Biology Department, Middlebury College, Middlebury, Vermont 05753 USA
Residential Colleges and University Reform (http://collegiateway.org) |
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Karin
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
| Quote: | To directly answer the question: I'd recommend a substance-free or
honors theme if that was the only choice I had, and it would probably
be better than nothing at all. But, as a faculty member I'm strongly
opposed to the idea of "theme halls" in the first place. They do the
opposite of what we should be doing: they *segregate* rather than
integrate, and they bring students together who are just like one
another, instead of bringing together students with different
interests and backgrounds so everyone can learn from everyone else.
|
I didn't go to college and so didn't live in dorms, but my experience
from observing my daughter at her small college has been that the
shared curriculum brings the students together, and a theme dorm is
only one aspect of college life, much diversity is still evident from
students who all choose the "Out house dorm" ( people who are
interested in outdoor life) for example, or even the Chinese House (
people who are interested in or majoring in Chinese)
Among the freshman who chose the subfree dorm freshman year were
people who were allergic or sensitive to smoke like my daughter,
people who were in recovery, people who felt that sub free would give
them a refuge from "party all the time" mentality of some who are away
from home, or people who were forced to choose subfree by their
parents.
All very diverse reasons, and just one aspect of their living
situation.
| Quote: |
I don't see why integration is intrinsically better than segregation.
I think there are pros and cons to each. In addition, the student in
question has experienced integation of many sorts (racial,
socioeconomic, academic) over many years. Time for a change.
(And the existence of a "substance-free hall" is a tacit
acknowledgement that the other halls are out of control and the
university doesn't know how, or is unwilling, to bring them under
control.)
College students can't be controlled. High school students can't be
controlled. Adults can't be controlled. There will always be people
who drink too much.
So what's the best arrangement? A small, cross-sectional, faculty-led
*residential college* within a larger institution. Residential
colleges, modeled ultimately on the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge
universities in England, offer students the best of both worlds: a
small, family-like atmosphere within the context of a large
university.
Sounds nice. But I feel sorry for the faculty that is obligated to
live with college students. Must make family life difficult. And if
they don't enjoy it, how can it be good for the students? But I will
see if that option is available at the colleges the student is
question is considering.
My daughter had HAs & RAs instead of faculty to live with . It seems a |
good arrangement for her school. HAs are students with training, and
RAs are staff. Her current dorm also has a housekeeper who functions
as a dorm mother making coffee and cookies for students as well as a
shoulder and a ride to the airport.
THe students do see faculty quite a bit, although they don't generally
eat with them ( that I ve noticed) they do attend dinners at their
houses, play paint ball with the college president, and go bowling
with profs. One of the regular things is to go to movies ( harry
potter and LOTR with your advisor) I don't think they need to live
family style with their profs to have a family like atmosphere, they
have a family atmosphere with their peers.
ITs great that schools have choices though, think of how frustrated we
would be if every school was the same! |
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rick++
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
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|
Several of the schools I went to had dorms where engineering students
congregated. (Maybe too nerdy to get into frats.) These students did party
hard on off nights, but never before class days. |
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Sally
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:54 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
laura.stone@cox.net (Laura AZ) wrote in message news:<a3f1581.0403011911.68a6543f@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | Hi Sally:
I agree that this decision does need to be your offspring's. And, it
would be best if your child were doing the research, too.
|
What does it matter who does the research?
However, I
| Quote: | do think my son and I ended up reading through the various choices at
his selected college last spring, and discussed some pros and cons of
each dorm. I left the final decision (including the stamped
paperwork) in his hands.
I was pleased that he selected a residential college.
Laura in AZ (and sometimes anxious, too!)
|
CLIP
Laura,
Thanks for your story. Sounds like your son is having a good experience.
Sal |
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Sally
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:00 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
rick303@hotmail.com (rick++) wrote in message news:<f7422d8e.0403020714.5142af21@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | Several of the schools I went to had dorms where engineering students
congregated. (Maybe too nerdy to get into frats.) These students did party
hard on off nights, but never before class days.
|
Rick,
I think that honor or academic dorms may also be subject to this
behavior. What do you think?
Sal |
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Robert J. O'Hara
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:33 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
laura.stone@cox.net (Laura AZ) wrote...
| Quote: | The residential college option seems to have given our son some easy
ties to the campus, but not demand the same kind of all-or-nothing
social environment that a fraternity might. His dorm has six
residential floors, each with about 30 kids. They share a special
weekly dinner, field inter-dorm athletic teams, and have the
opportunity to participate in lots of special events -- Dodgers games
last fall, museum visits, theatre tickets, etc. Our son has grown
especially close to everyone on his floor, and much of his social life
is centered around his dorm friends. The faculty master has lived in
an apartment in one end of the ground floor of the dorm for a number
of years, and has a child who lives with him. Our son seems to be
glad that the faculty master is there, and admire him (tried to
register for his class this spring, but couldn't work it into his
schedule), but doesn't seem dependent upon him. Sophomores at his
school typcially moved to apartments (university subsidized, if
they're lucky), and he's already a part of four guys from his dorm
floor hoping to share an apartment next year.
|
Laura, can you tell us what university this is?
Many thanks.
Bob O'Hara
Robert J. O'Hara (rjohara@post.harvard.edu - http://rjohara.net)
Biology Department, Middlebury College, Middlebury, Vermont 05753 USA
Residential Colleges and University Reform (http://collegiateway.org) |
|
| Back to top |
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Sally
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:42 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
| Quote: | Since you are not controlling, why not let your student choose on their own?
To help them in making the decision perhaps a visit to various dorms while
in their senior year at high school might help them.
Personally I am against such themes as "substance-free." First, because they
equate between drugs and alcohol. I don't do drugs but I believe in
responsible drinking. Second, because extreme positions usually result in
180 degree turns by some. I prefer moderation over extremes.
My offspring chose themes which fit them. They made their own decisions, and
I respect their decisions.
Best,
Abe
|
So, just to ease everyone's fears concerning my controlling mother,
this is the high school senior testifying. My mother has slim concern
over the drug usage and drinking in college; it is my worry. Although
I am a minority in my entire high school, I do not approve of drugs or
underage drinking. In fact, I disapprove of legal drinking done in
moderation. I know it sounds weird, and perhaps anal retentive, but I
have very strong opinions on this issue. I am not searching for a
substance free dorm because I don't want the peer pressure; instead it
is because I want to find a social circle whose gatherings are not
centered around parties and drinking. I merely want to distance myself
from people who find fun in alcohol, because I do not, and such
activities make me uncomfortable. And just to defend myself, I am
doing my research, and my mother is helping me out.
~Sally's Offspring |
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Laura AZ
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
Bob and Sal:
Bob: My son is at the University of Southern California. Four of the
dorms there are set up as residential colleges. You can find more
info at http://housing.usc.edu/program/resCollege.htm.
Sal, you asked why it mattered who did the research. I think every
family is different, but I've found with my sons that the more
invested they are in the decision making process right from the start,
the stronger their buy-in.
Laura in AZ |
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Abe Kohen
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
"Sally" <sunsol@prodigy.net> wrote
| Quote: | "Abe Kohen" <akohen@xenon.stanford.edu> wrote
"Sally" <sunsol@prodigy.net> wrote
Second, because extreme positions usually result in
180 degree turns by some.
Got some stats on that? Personal experience?
|
Anecdotal evidence. Myself and friends on religion. Another friend going
from extreme conservatism to extreme liberalism.
| Quote: |
I prefer moderation over extremes.
I agree, but college students are into extremes.
My offspring chose themes which fit them. They made their own decisions,
and
I respect their decisions.
Sounds much like what I plan. So what did they pick, and how did they like
it? |
For privacy reasons I can't get into that. Suffice it to say that they
picked very different themes.
Abe |
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Abe Kohen
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Choosing a theme dorm |
|
|
"Sally" <sunsol@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:2398fe97.0403021842.45b46488@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | Since you are not controlling, why not let your student choose on their
own?
To help them in making the decision perhaps a visit to various dorms
while
in their senior year at high school might help them.
Personally I am against such themes as "substance-free." First, because
they
equate between drugs and alcohol. I don't do drugs but I believe in
responsible drinking. Second, because extreme positions usually result
in
180 degree turns by some. I prefer moderation over extremes.
My offspring chose themes which fit them. They made their own decisions,
and
I respect their decisions.
Best,
Abe
So, just to ease everyone's fears concerning my controlling mother,
this is the high school senior testifying. My mother has slim concern
over the drug usage and drinking in college; it is my worry. Although
I am a minority in my entire high school, I do not approve of drugs or
underage drinking. In fact, I disapprove of legal drinking done in
moderation. I know it sounds weird, and perhaps anal retentive, but I
have very strong opinions on this issue. I am not searching for a
|
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Please tell us why you disapprove of legal drinking done in moderation.
My religion requires that I drink on Friday night and on Saturday before
lunch, so I expect my offspring to follow this practice.
I don't find "fun" in alcohol, rather it enhances my meal and my sleep on my
"day of rest."
Best,
Abe
| Quote: | substance free dorm because I don't want the peer pressure; instead it
is because I want to find a social circle whose gatherings are not
centered around parties and drinking. I merely want to distance myself
from people who find fun in alcohol, because I do not, and such
activities make me uncomfortable. And just to defend myself, I am
doing my research, and my mother is helping me out.
~Sally's Offspring |
|
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| |
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